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Kirk Johnson vs Vitali Klitschko

bombthreat23

TRIBE Member
Well this is about as close as we are going to get having a 'real' Canadian fighting for the heavyweight championship of the world...With Lewis on the shelf and threatening to never fight again, and Klitschko ahead on the score cards when his fight with Lewis was stopped... would make sense for the boxing public to see Vitali as the champ... and here we have Canadian (and proud Canadian I might add, comes out with CDN flag etc) fighting him at MSG sat night... Klitschko is favoured, but you read it here first...Johnson will get the low blows under control and will out box Vitali with his spee... Johson by decision...
g.
 

R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Johnson has no pressure on him - his picture isn't even on most ads for the fight.

The boxing guys want Klitchsko because he seems more menacing, but I think they may be eating their own feet.
 

bombthreat23

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by basic
Johnson has no pressure on him - his picture isn't even on most ads for the fight.

The boxing guys want Klitchsko because he seems more menacing, but I think they may be eating their own feet.
Man I hope so, would love to see Johnson get it all together for this fight...
g.
 

me

TRIBE Member
The fix is in. The winner of this get's a mandatory shot at Lewis for his belt (unless he retires). After the controversy of Lewis' win over Klitschko you know what everybody wants and will get $$$$$.
 

bombthreat23

TRIBE Member
doesn't work like that in boxing... can't tell you how many times in exactly the same set up...a fighter looses costing him, the promoter, hbo etc millions and millions....

tommy morrison losing to jesse ferguson
Klitschko's younger brother losing to corey sanders
De La Hoya losing to Mosley


everyone cries fix in boxing..but there are more examples or proof if you will such as the abovr where the loss derailed a HUGE follow up fight...
g.
 

silver1

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by bombthreat23
doesn't work like that in boxing... can't tell you how many times in exactly the same set up...a fighter looses costing him, the promoter, hbo etc millions and millions....

tommy morrison losing to jesse ferguson
Klitschko's younger brother losing to corey sanders
De La Hoya losing to Mosley


everyone cries fix in boxing..but there are more examples or proof if you will such as the abovr where the loss derailed a HUGE follow up fight...
g.
Exactly. The last De La Hoya fight. People cried fix. Ummm ya. The 2nd biggest PPV cash cow in the history of the sport got a fixed loss against him? It makes absolutely no business sense.

(not to mention that about 75% of the boxing media sitting ringside called the fight the same way the judges did).
 

bombthreat23

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by silver1
Exactly. The last De La Hoya fight. People cried fix. Ummm ya. The 2nd biggest PPV cash cow in the history of the sport got a fixed loss against him? It makes absolutely no business sense.

(not to mention that about 75% of the boxing media sitting ringside called the fight the same way the judges did).
he was set up to fight the biggest names in boxing if he could just get by mosley... all of them derailed when he lost..cost the sport maybe 100million in future revenue...and no Mosley does not generate the kind of money De La Hoya does even if he is better than him...STYLES MAKE FIGHTS...
g.
 

fleaflo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by bombthreat23
what the hell, who shows up for the biggest fight of their lives 20lbs overweight?!?!?!?
That was such a bizzare sight. I didn't know what to make of it. The guy looked like a deformed punching bag, and that was before the fight even started.

Poor boxing...

But on that note, I saw the Don King story on ESPNC yesterday. What a fuking hilarious movie. Ving Rames was so good as King it just killed me.
 

kerouacdude

TRIBE Member
^^^
that's one of the great performances in recent years, Ving as DK.
"I wash my hands BEFORE I touch my dick!"

Kirk Johnson's effort/conditioning was pathetic. It's your make or break fight. You already blew it against Ruiz. Obviously he takes 95% of the blame, but who the fuck was running his training camp and allowing him to come in like that? (I'm being rhetorical, I know who his trainers are)
 

bombthreat23

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by kerouacdude
^^^
that's one of the great performances in recent years, Ving as DK.
"I wash my hands BEFORE I touch my dick!"

Kirk Johnson's effort/conditioning was pathetic. It's your make or break fight. You already blew it against Ruiz. Obviously he takes 95% of the blame, but who the fuck was running his training camp and allowing him to come in like that? (I'm being rhetorical, I know who his trainers are)
so true..pathetic..he phoned that one in..my friend works for espn and sat ringside and was talking with Merchant etc the day before the fight and she was told that he only trained 2 weeks for the fight, they knew already that he didn't care..what a piece of work...I almost flew down for this, thak god I didn't.
 

JMan

TRIBE Member
It's no wonder the heavyweight division sux so bad... when you pay guys 5 to 10x what REAL fighters in other divisions get, there's no motivation. Kirk can probably buy a palace in N.S. with the payday he got.

Somebody tell me he didn't walk into the ring adorned with the Canadian flag...

JMan
 

kerouacdude

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by JMan
It's no wonder the heavyweight division sux so bad... when you pay guys 5 to 10x what REAL fighters in other divisions get, there's no motivation. Kirk can probably buy a palace in N.S. with the payday he got.
you're way off base on that one. This is all about Kirk and nothing to do with purses. This wasn't a megafight or even a title fight.
His gross was 350K and he'll be lucky to come out with half of that after paying his people, Uncle Sam, etc.
Some b-ball players make that in about 3 games.
 

tobywan

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Sugar D
this pic describes how the fight went.

Could someone please put an "owned" caption on this photo?

And yes, I caught the fight on saturday night, and Johnson was bitched slapped all over the place.
 

JMan

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by kerouacdude
you're way off base on that one. This is all about Kirk and nothing to do with purses. This wasn't a megafight or even a title fight.
His gross was 350K and he'll be lucky to come out with half of that after paying his people, Uncle Sam, etc.
Some b-ball players make that in about 3 games.
The heavyweight division has been in shambles for years, with far more pretenders than contenders in large part because the division pays so well and only requires a moderate skill and effort level. A KJ caliber fighter in almost any other division would have been weeded out long before even a $350K payout. He was one solid effort away from a 7-figure payday which is reprehensible when you look at him... 1 big punch and that tub would have been gettin' paid.

J
 

kerouacdude

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by JMan
The heavyweight division has been in shambles for years, with far more pretenders than contenders in large part because the division pays so well and only requires a moderate skill and effort level. J
Actually, the heavyweight division has been a period of relative prosperity until maybe out a year or two ago, and even today, it's miles ahead of the mid 80's when the likes of Dokes, Tubbs, Page, Berbick, Dokes, Pinklon, Bonecrusher et al. were holding belts.
We've seen four heavyweights who were more than "moderately skilled - Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson (in his prime), Bowe (in his prime) - all in about a 10 year time frame. That 10 year time frame holds up to many eras in heavyweight boxing.

To the extent it's had problems, they've been the same as all divisions in boxing - bullshit politics and too many sanctioning organizations.

The problems of heavyweight boxing have nothing to do with purses. I think you're being misled by the purses of the biggest heavyweight fights. A guy who's number 7 or 8 in the heavyweight division does not get paid more than the likes of Mayorga, Morales, Gatti, Tsyzu, etc etc per fight.

Boxers do not get into the sport for money.
If anything, what's hurting the heavyweight division is the opposite of what you're saying - more and more talented kids these days who would have gone into boxing in years gone by, take up football or basketball instead.
 

JMan

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by kerouacdude
Actually, the heavyweight division has been a period of relative prosperity until maybe out a year or two ago, and even today, it's miles ahead of the mid 80's when the likes of Dokes, Tubbs, Page, Berbick, Dokes, Pinklon, Bonecrusher et al. were holding belts.
We've seen four heavyweights who were more than "moderately skilled - Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson (in his prime), Bowe (in his prime) - all in about a 10 year time frame. That 10 year time frame holds up to many eras in heavyweight boxing.

To the extent it's had problems, they've been the same as all divisions in boxing - bullshit politics and too many sanctioning organizations.

The problems of heavyweight boxing have nothing to do with purses. I think you're being misled by the purses of the biggest heavyweight fights. A guy who's number 7 or 8 in the heavyweight division does not get paid more than the likes of Mayorga, Morales, Gatti, Tsyzu, etc etc per fight.

Boxers do not get into the sport for money.
If anything, what's hurting the heavyweight division is the opposite of what you're saying - more and more talented kids these days who would have gone into boxing in years gone by, take up football or basketball instead.
Although I love Holyfield, I don't consider him to be an all-time great. Nor Bowe. Maybe Lewis, and Tyson in his prime, but most of his opponents were the guys you've listed (albeit belt holders - good point).

Sure a 7 or 8 heavyweight doesn't get more $, but he can show up for a fight like KJ did... fat, out of shape and/or low on skill in the first place. He does less for his shot. I think more than any other division, allot of heavyweights stay in it for the $. If you're a big guy with moderate skills, maybe you got into boxing for the right reasons, but you're going to continue and pad your record for a shot at some real money - moreso than if you are 140lbs. The heavyweight division is really the only one that can double as a circus if the show is good enough.

JMan
 

kerouacdude

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by JMan
Although I love Holyfield, I don't consider him to be an all-time great. Nor Bowe. Maybe Lewis, and Tyson in his prime, but most of his opponents were the guys you've listed (albeit belt holders - good point).
Nobody said anything about "all-time greats", I was comparing eras of heavyweights - the recent era saw more really good heavyweights than most in heavyweight history aside from the early to mid 70's.

Kirk has skill. He was a decorated amateur and fought in the Olympics. And he showed up in better shape against Ruiz, for which he was paid more money. So your argument doesn't hold there either.

When a fighter is out of shape as a heavyweight it shows more than other categories coz there's no weight limit.
If anything, you're seeing more in-shape heavyweights today than ever before. You're seeing more heavyweights with musculature than ever before.

And as far as saying you don't consider Holyfield an all-time great, I really don't know how to properly respond to you...that statement right there kind of undermines your credibility to comment on boxing matters.

Having watched him in the LA Olympics, and then about 95% of the fights he had at cruiserweight and then heavyweight, I can assure you he's an all-time great. And on most experts' lists, he will rank higher than either Lewis or Tyson.
 

bombthreat23

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by kerouacdude
Nobody said anything about "all-time greats", I was comparing eras of heavyweights - the recent era saw more really good heavyweights than most in heavyweight history aside from the early to mid 70's.

Kirk has skill. He was a decorated amateur and fought in the Olympics. And he showed up in better shape against Ruiz, for which he was paid more money. So your argument doesn't hold there either.

When a fighter is out of shape as a heavyweight it shows more than other categories coz there's no weight limit.
If anything, you're seeing more in-shape heavyweights today than ever before. You're seeing more heavyweights with musculature than ever before.

And as far as saying you don't consider Holyfield an all-time great, I really don't know how to properly respond to you...that statement right there kind of undermines your credibility to comment on boxing matters.

Having watched him in the LA Olympics, and then about 95% of the fights he had at cruiserweight and then heavyweight, I can assure you he's an all-time great. And on most experts' lists, he will rank higher than either Lewis or Tyson.
Nice to read you stuff kerouacdude, I can see you are a fight fan, as am I..I fly down and try and catch as many fights as possible (have a friend who covers boxing for espn and can get me great seats) I agree with almost everything you say and find myself typing in responses to to earlier posts and then realize you have written what I was going to say... if anyone is worried about the state of the heavyweigth division, read this article by max kellerman...all is not as lost as would seem...



Max Kellerman
I was stopped in the street this week and asked: "If Lennox Lewis retires, how are they going to crown the next heavyweight champ?" I did not have an immediate answer. I said something like "we might not have a champ for a while."

Upon reflection, this guy's question is a happy one. Try as they might, all the corrupt sanctioning bodies, short-sighted promoters and television networks in the world have not been able to confuse the issue for this man, a casual boxing fan. He knew that Lennox Lewis and only Lennox Lewis is the heavyweight champion of the world. Lewis won universal recognition as champ in the ring (against Evander Holyfield and Shannon Briggs) and is now recognized as champ by The Ring Magazine.

One possible answer to the "how is the next heavyweight champ going to be crowned?" question also offers reason for hopefulness. HBO, with its near nine-figure budget for fighter's purses, is the de facto major league of boxing. Should Lewis officially retire, then The Ring Magazine heavyweight championship will be vacant, and HBO will have a real opportunity to officially embrace The Ring's championship policy, thereby further undermining whatever shred of credibility any of those scurrilous sanctioning bodies have left.

Whether or not HBO officially recognizes The Ring belt as the legit title (as we do on Friday Night Fights and as is the editorial policy on ESPNEWS), in the near future, it is likely that the industry leader will hold if not an official heavyweight tournament, then at least enough fights between top heavyweights, that by the time the dust settles, there will be a consensus top heavyweight, if not an official Ring heavyweight champ.

Who will that fighter be? The winner of this upcoming Saturday night's showdown at Madison Square Garden between Vitali Klitschko and Kirk Johnson will be a top contender for the vacant title, especially if the winner of that fight actually takes on Corrie Sanders. The winner of the upcoming James Toney-Jameel McCline fight will also be a top contender. Should Roy Jones Jr. return to heavyweight and beat say, Mike Tyson, he will be not only solidify his position among the top heavys, but he will also become the focal point of the division.

Wladimir Klitschko will likely rebound from his knockout loss to Sanders with some quality wins (eventually) and re-enter the picture. Hassim Rahman will likely beat John Ruiz in a couple of weeks and throw his hat into the mix. Dominick Guinn is undefeated and on a roll, and Chris Byrd escaped his fight against Fres Oquendo with a win.

The best possible scenario of course, is that in the wake of a Lewis retirement HBO actually stages an official tournament - like the one that crowned Mike Tyson king in the late 1980's when he eventually knocked out Michael Spinks. So, let's name 'em (un)officially: the winner of Toney-McCline, the winner of V. Klitschko-K. Johnson, the winner of Roy Jones-Mike Tyson, the winner of Rahman-Ruiz, the winner of a Sanders-W. Klitschko rematch, the winner of a Tua-Oquendo rematch, Chris Byrd and say, Dominick Guinn. A three-step, eight-fighter tourney to determine the next heavyweight champion of the world. And by the time a new king is crowned, Joe Mesi might still be undefeated and the perfect foil for the champ's first title defense.

Wishful thinking maybe, but not totally out of the realm of possibility. The boxing industry is in bad shape and HBO, with its position as the industry leader stands to lose the most from a further collapse, and gain the most from a revival. The Ring Magazine policy states that a vacant title can automatically be filled if the top ranked fighter in a division fights the No. 2 ranked guy. So if a big tournament is too unwieldy, Chris Byrd can face Corrie Sanders and the winner is the brand new champ. Simple as that.
 
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