john walker to face criminal charges

[Rosey]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/15/ret.walker.charges/index.html

attorny general "We may never know why he turned his back on our country and our values, but we cannot ignore that he did."

WTF? not appreciating american values is a crime now? well, at least they are open enough to say it.

 

[MBoy]

Treason has been a serious offense in practically every country/kingdom throughout history. I'm not saying it's right... I'm just sayin' that it's always been a crime to speak out in such a way against a superpower.

I'm interested to see how they pursue it legally.

 

[matty]

If they prove that he was a member of the organization that planned and executed the attacks on the WTC, as well as being aware of their agenda, then I sure as hell hope gets charged criminally. If he was simply a member of the Taliban and got swept up in this whole mess because the US attacked Afghanistan then I think criminal charges should be dropped.

That leaves treason. I'm not to versed in what constitutes treason and what doesn't, someone could share perhaps.

If a person joins organization x because they feels it promotes a belief or lifestyle they agree with, and subsequently the US declares war on organization X, has the person committed treason?

 

[Rosey]

he's not being charged with treason. there is no way that anybody could accuse him of plotting to overthrow the american government. he's being charged with 'conspiracy to kill american nationals abroad'. they also alledge that he knew that there were suicide attackers in the states.

 

[Rosey]

*bump*
because it got buried last sunday night and i'm still pissed about this and the treatment of taliban prisoners.

 

[Hi i'm God]

I thought this thread was about...

 

[Hi i'm God]

I thought this thread was about...

 

[poker face]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
*bump*
because it got buried last sunday night and i'm still pissed about this and the treatment of taliban prisoners.</font>

And might I ask why?

 

[janiecakes]

maybe because the whole flouting of, y'know, the geneva convention is somewhat distressing to people?

 

[K_la]

I hate both of the johnny walkers! one taste like ass, the other looks like ass =P

Honestly though i have no sympathy for ppl like him and hope he gets a VERY harsh punishment. If you dont like the country you like leave, dont start shit. And as said before especially dont turn your back on a super power, thats just stupid

 

[Deep_Groove]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by K_la:
If you dont like the country you like leave,
which is what he did!
dont start shit.And as said before especially dont turn your back on a super power, thats just stupid</font>

Hmm I have to wonder just how you think you're not contradicting yourself. So if he didn't like the country he was from, he SHOULD have left (which he did)...unless his country was a superpower, becuase "thats just stupid". Oh, and DON'T end up in a country where there are people who share your views of hating the US...because they might "start shit". Which would be your fault because...?

-Deep_Groove

 

[Sporty Dan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by janiecakes:
maybe because the whole flouting of, y'know, the geneva convention is somewhat distressing to people?</font>

The Geneva Convention doens;t apply to them.


dan.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sporty Dan:

The Geneva Convention doens;t apply to them.

</font>

why not? they're prisoners of a declared war!

k_la, once you come down from that last hit of freebase maybe you should reread your post and think about what you said.

 

[deep]

This guy's story cracks me the fuck up.

He's 20 friggin years old. His entire life has consisted of jumping from one bandwagon to another in his search for identity. CNN was citing a stage in his life when he was into hip hop and all wiggerlicious.Went to an "alternative" high school where he could decide on his own curriculum and had to report to a teacher once a week. Then he discovered Islam when reading a book on Malcolm X. Took up the faith with the blessings of his parents and joined a mosque. Adopted an islamic name and suitable garb. Moved to the middle east to study the religion more with his parents money. Moved to an even stricter school in Pakistan again with his parents money. All the while corresponding with pop via email. Raised by a pair of "progressive minded" parents whose idea of suitable punishment for joining a terrorist group is having a stern talking to (exact words from interview with father).

I think it's just as laughable the US throws around words like trying Walker for treason, when he's not privy to government secrets nor an employee of the United States. Legally for treason charges to work you need two witnesses of the act or a confession from the person charged. Like that's gonna happen. It's possible that your citizens may not end up liking your country and want to live someplace else...evidently while the US is aware of such a thing happening in other countries there's just no way it could happen on American soil. But then again, didn't they say that about the planes?

 

[deep]

Even the fact that his english is now tinged with a middle eastern accent cracks me up. Makes me wonder if anyone had any audio from his rapper years to see what kinda flava he was rockin then

 

[Sporty Dan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
why not? they're prisoners of a declared war!</font>

The US has not officially declared war through the UN, so it does not apply.

dan.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sporty Dan:
The US has not officially declared war through the UN, so it does not apply.

dan.

</font>

oh, i see. it's a war when they want to invade another natiopn and overthrow it's government, but it's nto a war when it comes to humane treatment of the prisoners. sorry, you're right, i forgot to think like an american.

 

[Sporty Dan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
oh, i see. it's a war when they want to invade another natiopn and overthrow it's government, but it's nto a war when it comes to humane treatment of the prisoners. sorry, you're right, i forgot to think like an american.
</font>

... you also forgot to think like Al Qaeda and the Taliban. They never bothered to declare war on the United States. They wouldn;t be subject to these rules either. The US just responded on equal ground. Why should they be held to higher standards then whoever attacked them??? Why would they want to disadvantage themselves like that?

dan.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sporty Dan:
... you also forgot to think like Al Qaeda and the Taliban. They never bothered to declare war on the United States. They wouldn;t be subject to these rules either. The US just responded on equal ground. Why should they be held to higher standards then whoever attacked them??? Why would they want to disadvantage themselves like that?

</font>

while i have no illusions about how american prisoners of al-queda would suffer, that does not at all justify america lowering themselves to their level.

how is it a disadvantage to the americans to treat their prisoners like human beings? taking the attitude that we can do to them what they might/have done to us is incredibly scarey.

 

[graham]

he's way more trouble than he's worth.

 

[janiecakes]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sporty Dan:
The US has not officially declared war through the UN, so it does not apply.
</font>

article 2 of the geneva convention states that it applies to all cases of declared war or any other armed conflict even if the state of war isn't recognized by one of the sides.

 

[Chris]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by janiecakes:
article 2 of the geneva convention states that it applies to all cases of declared war or any other armed conflict even if the state of war isn't recognized by one of the sides.</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by janiecakes:
article 2 of the geneva convention states that it applies to all cases of declared war or any other armed conflict even if the state of war isn't recognized by one of the sides.</font>

True, but only by nations that have signed the accord are bound by it.

John Walker has to face charges, no question about it. In my eyes the man and others like him, and I know I'm going to piss some people off here, but this person is a traitor. However, I'm glad the US has not taken this route in their charges against him. I can also sympathize with his cause, ideas, passion, however to a point.

These comments about the mistreatment of prisoners? Yes there will be some isolated cases, however, wars are ugly and dirty, and often you may have to play outside of the rules in order to reach your objectives. Anybody who has studied history or have known people or been in the forces would know this. There are some aspects to it, that frankly I would rather not know about, i.e. the torturing (mental, and physical) of prisoners in order to gain intelligence. Its a tool that is and has to be used. When dealing with a unconventional conflict, you have little choice but to use unconventional methods. Its something that should be hidden, covert, and classified, for reasons of obvious public perceptions. Better to not know, that to know, in these cases.

Just my two cents worth

 

[Jeffsus]

mmmmmmmm
johnny walker

one time I ordered a double, just cause it was $35 a shot.
work paid.
suckers.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ChrisD:
True, but only by nations that have signed the accord are bound by it.
</font>

true. the USA has signed the accord. so they should be bound by it. unlike, say, the gloabal treaty to limit the use of landmines which they have refused to sign.

i'm actually really torn on the issue of charging John Walker. i've reconsidered my initial stance, that he was a POW and should be treated as such. but only because it is my understanding that he is still technically an american citizen and therefore responsible to the american people and government. if he had formally renounced his citizenship that would be different.

deep, as for his accent, i'm sure if any one of us went to the middle east and only spoke arabic for almost a year our english would have a slight lilt to it also.

 

[LoopeD]

Mistreatment of al-Quaeda prisoners? Oh boo-hoo, they were MANACLED! The horror, the horror! And they "walked a little funny" after sitting down on a long-ass flight!! And they've been getting 3 meals a day since capture! And they're suspected terrorists, captured in wartime! Shit, better call in the human rights idiots on that one!!

d