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Is this why the Carter trigger was pulled so early?

Big League Chu

TRIBE Member
Did Carter tip Sonics?

FRANK HUGHES; The News Tribune
Tacoma, WA

Two days before Toronto Raptors general manager Rob Babcock traded Vince Carter to the New Jersey Nets, he was informed that Carter may have tried to sabotage his team in a game a month ago.

Whether that information led to Carter being traded Friday for Alonzo Mourning, two other players and two draft picks is unclear. But after being part of trade talks for more than a month, Carter was dealt less than 48 hours after Babcock was interviewed for a story about Carters actions Nov. 19.

Three members of the Seattle SuperSonics say they believe Carter intentionally tipped off a play during the final minute of the Raptors 101-94 loss to the Sonics in Toronto.

With 29 seconds remaining in that game and the Sonics leading 97-90, the Raptors called a timeout. After returning to the court, Carter lined up along the edge of the key. He was facing the Sonics bench with his hands on his knees. According to a member of the Sonics, before the play began, Carter said directly to the Seattle bench, Its a flare. Its a flare. Two other members of the Sonics confirmed that Carter told the Sonics bench that the Raptors were running the flare play.

The Raptors, inbounding the ball above the Sonics bench, then ran a flare play for Carter.

In the play, which Sonics scouts had observed was a common go-to play for the Raptors, Carter worked his way up the key on the near side as Sonics guard Ray Allen followed. At the elbow on the near side, Raptors forward Matt Bonner set a screen on Allen for Carter, who then flared toward the opposite corner. The pass from Morris Petersen was too long for Carter to handle easily, and, unable to make a clean shot attempt, he passed the ball to Bonner, who hit a 22-foot shot from the top of the key.

According to one member of the Sonics, the bench reacted immediately to what Carter said, with Sonics players saying, Did you hear that? Did you see that? Thats (expletive) up.

Another member of the Sonics said he discussed the play with a coach after the game, and the coach said, If you ever do that, Ill run you out of the league.

Allen, who was guarding Carter, said: I didnt hear it, but thats what those other guys were saying (after the game), Reggie (Evans) and those other guys. But all I said was, Why would he do that? I dont know why he would do that.

When asked to detail the incident, Evans chose not to discuss specifics.

I dont want to get involved in that stuff, man, Evans said. That stuff is deep. I aint scared of Vince or nothing like that, but that is between him and his conscience. I aint saying it did happen or it didnt happen. Ill leave that for Ray. Ill let Ray do all that type of talking, man.

For real. Ill let Ray open his mouth, he is the one ... who got into it with Kobe (Bryant), so I will just leave that alone. I dont want to get into no beef with nobody.

Carter, reached through Raptors spokesman Jim LaBumbard, responded, Im not going to comment on something as ridiculous as that.

Babcock was reached on Wednesday evening and said: I hadnt heard that. I would hope that would not be the case, but I am not aware of that. If he did do that, I would be quite upset with that. But I dont know anything about that. It is nothing I heard.

Thats the type of thing that, if I was aware of it, we would deal with it internally, and we certainly would deal with it. But I am not aware of that.

If something comes up to me like that, and it is solid, and it is obvious that it did happen, we would take care of it internally.

Carter was traded to New Jersey two days later.

There are other possible explanations for Carters actions.

I guess you could look at it both ways, Allen said Either, he was being cocky and saying, I am still going to score, or, I dont want you guys to let me make this shot.

When asked if Carter was merely being cocky, one member of the Sonics said he did not believe so, pointing out that the Raptors were down seven points late in the game and that Carter had scored only 21 points.

Also, when asked if it were possible that Carter could have been trying to decoy the Sonics, the member of the Sonics said, Sure, but they ended up running the play he told us, so I dont see how it could have been a decoy.

Asked why Carter would reveal the play, the Sonics member said, We were all under the impression that he was sabotaging his team because he was getting booed by the fans and he wanted to get traded.

The incident occurred one day after the Raptors and the Portland Trail Blazers were widely reported to be holding trade talks involving Carter.

It also came less than a week after Carter and Raptors coach Sam Mitchell got into a spat because Mitchell benched Carter for the entire fourth quarter of a game against Portland after Carter scored just four points in 22 minutes.

Personally, for me it would be disrespecting myself, Evans said of Carters actions. Players should have more pride than to do things like that. Youre playing for the love of the game. These days, obviously, they are playing for money ... but you still have love for the game. Just balance it out.

Its crazy because that could be somebody else out there, who wants to win, who wants to make a difference for a coach, somebody like a Damien Wilkins or a Mateen Cleaves who would love to be in that situation to get them over that hump.

Stuff like this just makes the league look bad. Frank Hughes:


TRIBE Member
I JUST heard abut this on the Score.....I really hope its not true, although I don't put it past the whiny little skirt. What a serious peice of crap.....As an aside, I feel honored to be posting in the same thread as the infamous Big League Chu.....I had been to plenty a party lovin' the Big League Chu breaks....I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy.....


Big Harv

TRIBE Member
We already knew Wince was a lazy overrated dumb injury prone whining immature mama's boy self-centred pussy.

But I never thought of him as pure evil.

Big League Chu

TRIBE Member
Nice words Kyle , thanks for supporting.

Back to the topic,
it's really too bad they won't be able to confirm that he may have been throwing games. He can use the following excuses to cover his ass.

1) He was giving the play to throw the other team off. (i.e. I tell you the play and you think I'm lying so you automatically set up for something else)

2) He told them the play as a form of trash-talking. (We're gonna run this play and there ain't nothing you can do to stop me).

It's too bad because I really do feel that he was being a prick near the end with respect to his professionalism, so I am of the belief that he was intentionally throwing the games. If it could be proved (which it can't), it would go right up there with the Chicago Black Sox or the Pete Rose scandal. He would most definately be deserving of a lifetime ban from the NBA.
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Well-Known TRIBEr
Well, I am a bit saddened by the news.

I am not a big basketball fan but that is just because the raptors were not that entertaining to watch. I mean, whenever I saw them play they were just boring.
And now this?
Oh well, I will just stick to playing basketball instead of watching it. I swear they were boring to watch. I saw them twice.


TRIBE Member
just saw the play on tv - you'd think if they were tipped they'd have defenced it a bit better.

that and the fact this comes out two days after he's traded strikes me as extremely dubious.


TRIBE Promoter
All of this hurts me so much. Seems Toronto has a way of running it's athletes out of town. It just hurts to think that Carter run himself out of Toronto.

P.S. I think the trade was a bum deal as well. Time will tell.


TRIBE Member
Ok say for arguments sake he did do this.

At what point is a player in violation of thier contract and in a position to simply be fired?

I have worked for several different large companies and always had to sign extensive confidentiality agreements and would think that there has to be similar clauses in athletes contracts.

Has anyone ever in sports been in violation of thier contract and simply been fired? Without pay?
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TRIBE Member
Originally posted by solacevip
P.S. I think the trade was a bum deal as well. Time will tell.
Why do you think that it was a bum deal? Carter's value was low enough as it is, he was making things worse by playing so poorly, there was always the threat that he'd get injured for the season, and his negative attitude was killing team morale.

Babcock made the best of an awful situation and 2 first rounders at the very least gives us an opportunity to build up the team. I'm curious as to what you think would have been a better deal, cause honestly I was shocked that we got the deal we did.