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Is Pakistan's reputation as a source of terrorism and terrorists stalling flood aid?

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by alexd, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. alexd

    alexd Administrator Staff Member

    I have been watching the water level rise in Pakistan on TV for a while now and aid agencies are saying there is not a lot of aid coming in. They are also saying this is one of the biggest disasters they have ever seen.

    I am wondering whether if the reputation Pakistan has recently developed as a source of terrorism and terrorists is making people and states reluctant to help with relief efforts...
     
  2. WestsideWax

    WestsideWax TRIBE Promoter

    Moved to Politics Forum in 3, 2...
     
  3. skin deep

    skin deep TRIBE Member

    Pretty sure the Pakistan forum would be more appropriate. And no.
     
  4. Hi i'm God

    Hi i'm God TRIBE Member

    Damn to slow to thread crap.
     
  5. WestsideWax

    WestsideWax TRIBE Promoter

    That's a subforum of the Winnipeg Forum, right?
     
  6. KickIT

    KickIT TRIBE Member

    [​IMG]

    Barrack Obama don't care about Brown people.
     
  7. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    No it has more to do with poor infrastructure, poor planning + response from the central gov't, and well, the fact the area is experiencing a DISASTER:

    UN agencies, relief organizations and government officials are working to deliver relief supplies to flood affected areas, but heavy rains and swollen rivers have created enormous logistical challenges.​
    The UN is calling for half a billion in aid and I have no reason to feel they won't get it, aid has already been pledged by regional actors and Europeans, Americans and us.

    And the fact that Pakistan is enmeshed in the terrorism issue has actually been good for it in terms of getting aid, as this raises the stature of the nation in the eyes of great powers who see their own national interest affected by Pakistan's regional place in the pecking-order, its closeness to Pashtun extremism and its rivalry with India. From 2002 to 2011, Pakistan will have recieved 6 billion in economic aid, and 11 billion in military aid.
     
  8. acheron

    acheron TRIBE Member

    "military aid" - love that term.
     
  9. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    Yeah, but thus far, there has been no *passionate outcry* of behalf of global citizens, like with we saw with Haiti, and hell, even Louisiana. I think AlexD's proposition is in part correct. There will be aid, but it's a calculated response...
     
  10. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    well, I've been watching Al Jazeera, so maybe i haven't got the same feeling..;) there you get to see a lot more about the human side of the story.

    Now if we're talking about "passionate outcry" in western media, rather than aid, i'd agree with that. America and all of NATO are however, deeply enmeshed in "Af/Pak" and at the diplomatic/political level, are surely concerned about this whole situation.

    That being said, Pakistan's "terror links" are an inducement to aid, not a restrictor of it.
     
  11. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    ok, but still, the big difference here, is there's no *galvanizing response*, like what we experienced with Haiti. And sooo... what's the difference? Hey, I've been paying attention, but yet me no expect George Clooney to be holding a telethon on it, with U2 contributing...
    Kind of the point of alexd's initial propos... Soooo... what's the difference?
    Cuz yeah, all indicators point to the fact that this tragedy in Pakistan will be much more severe....
     
  12. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    does aid really ever reach the places its intended for?
    90% of the time a year after the disaster all you hear is how little aid actually reached the ppl who needed it because it was appropriated by the ppl supposed to be doling it out
     
  13. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Well I think what Haiti and the Tsunami had going for them, if that turn of phrase is even appropriate for those disasters, is that they were "instant" disasters, timeline wise: the earthquake happened over a few seconds, the tsunami over a few hours - so the impact was immediate and devastating right away.

    The issue with flooding is that it takes a while for the flood waters to build up and spread out, so the devastation - while potentially greater depending on the population size it is affecting - is played out over a longer time scale, and it doesn't have that same impact where at the end of one single day, we could say that x hundred thousand have died in that day.

    I would say that drawing any conclusions in this respect is a little premature, if the death toll does approach and surpass say Haiti, Im sure we'll see more of an emotional reaction. Remember the flooding is hitting China too - so I see the potential for this story to grow in media coverage/response as the damage expands its reach.
     
  14. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    In Pakistan's case there are a lot of questions about its aid. How much of that 6 billion of economic aid over 10 years is reaching the right people?

    Thing is for Pakistan geopolitics have a lot more to do with the aid, especially military aid, than anything else. So seeking the dependance of the Pakistani government on American largesse is more important than ensuring the aid is delivered properly, since it is more important for them to align politically than it is for them to ensure a school is built somewhere.
     
  15. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    yeah, but recent news is, these floods are supposed to hit the Swat Valley.
    Ain't that where Bin-Laden and the Taliban supposed to be hiding out?
    And while for sure there are some *noble peasants* there, just like in that movie, "Iron Man",
    ain't nobody jumping out of their chair to rescue that....
     
  16. Jeffsus

    Jeffsus TRIBE Member

    One mediating factor could be the general 'impression' that this should be within Pakistan's ability to cope.

    For example, similar flooding is happening in China but there is no call to international aid, as China can deal with it. Similarly hurricane Katrina didn't invoke international support (generallly).

    Countries like Haiti and Indonesia are recognized as being generally unable to deal with such a crisis, and accept help at the expense of their reputations, to some degree. Has Pakistan requested help from outside agencies? This is a usual first requirement out of sovereign respect.

    Moreover, in situations where countries do seek aid, they do it from their local group. In this case Afghanistan has nothing to give and as if Pakistan is going to request aid from India.

    -jM
    A&D
     
  17. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    i hope they dont try to ship the aid by train or bus, they have zero luck with them things
     
  18. acheron

    acheron TRIBE Member

    there's plenty of water maybe they could bring it in by boat
     
  19. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    yeah, but... As has been noted, (by actual Pakistani media, and the Brits), their PM (ex-husband of the great B. Bhutto, btw), did not blow off his preplanned (and financed through the buttocks) op-ed trip to Britain, etc.
    ... Dodido, Pakistan, as a so-called *independence* nation, has always thus far had awkward relations with, well, pretty much everyone. (including, and especially, India)...
    Benazir Bhutto would never have blown off her responsibilities to her country there, the way her (ex) husband just did...
    and yet, they assassinated her.
    Basically, Pakistan exists as the cunt-girlfriend you can't wait to get rid of..
    and hense, a Calculated (machiallian) response, but outside of that, no care, really.
    next
     
  20. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    yeah ok fine, since the Media has been playing this out today, and since
    Natasha Khan of Bats for Lashes, I honestly cannot understand what she must be going through right now.
    I;m donating 100$ to Doctors without Borders, who're already in there....

    just. because....
     
  21. The fact that some experts are very close to referring to Pakistan as a failed state doesn't help the hold up in giving aid.

    That and the revelations that Pakistan has been redirecting some of the funding they provided as aid to the very enemies they're supposed to be fighting. As much as I hate to say it, Pakistan had to realize at some point that if you play both sides, you're going to get burned at some point.
     
  22. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    for whatever motiviation or intent.........
    sometimes,
    we must Do The Right Thing........

    "are you my family? can I stay with you, awhile...."
    Do The Right Thing...

    y
     
  23. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    oh a and btw predidente el steppa, me been attacking Pakistatan more than you'll ever will.....

    but ....
     
  24. erika

    erika TRIBE Member

    Two things have bothered me about this:
    1. As mentioned, the fact that the leader of the country was so slow to actually be there and didn't change any of his plans; that is just awful.
    2. The Taliban-affiliates trumpeting that this disaster is a curse because of people straying from Islam. Please!

    There hasn't been the outpouring that there was for Haiti, probably in part because the leader himself didn't seem too concerned.
    But then the Haiti response may have been driven in part by some form of guilt over how much that country had been f*cked over by the powers that be in this part of the world and a realization of how incredibly helpless they were.

    It's sad. I donate. What else can you do?
     
  25. Polymorph

    Polymorph TRIBE Member

    yeah. I know. I agree. point for point. ......... 'specilly when the creepies bring *islam* into it.... (in which case, yer on yer own, buds...),......
    But I dunno, this is not a *war*, this is a natural disaster that rivals the likes of what hit Haitii...
    ........

    Good artictles in both the anglais and french media here..... (which was pretty much a reiteration of what the UN put out, in terms of their *optics*......
    in other news, yeah, whatever, turn a blind eye, because, there's an actual one-third of that populance being affected, and so.....
    And yes, so me turns a blind eye, yeah, I get the reticience and ambilence on the part of others...
     

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