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is jungle/drum n bass esoteric?
- Thread starter Nebu kad
- Start date
evil homer
TRIBE Member
esoteric as in inaccesible to layperson?
I do very much enjoy these elitist threads. yes it certainly is. Probly culminating in amon tobin, squarepusher, etc.
I think there is A LOT of accessible tunes though. RnB, Hip Hop, Ragga remixes are obviously accesible to those into those (un-junglized) sounds. Further to that the soulful vocally vibes (shake it, suicide, most MIST rmx's, carlito+addicition) are pretty easy to take. Sounds like pop music, just underground.
Up from that the latinny sounds and the weirder soulful stuff (total science, beta II, london elektricty) seem not that esoteric either. It definitely takes a slightly open mind b/c it is weird, but especially as a dj playing that in the context of a set you could definitely have non-heads into it.
So long as there is melody, you could appeal to non-DnB heads into other styles of electronic music. omni trio, mellow cert 18, metalheadz, some C4C, klute, juju, seems to go off on the dancefloor amongst those not at all into DnB.
Then it gets pretty esoteric i suppose. I wouldn' play Bad Co or Stakka Skynet for my brother (even though i'm always playing polar for him). And finally the IDM influenced DnB seems pretty weird to many junglists.
But certainly the most out there stuff ever is old skool DnB. Doc Scott - Dark Angel and much of the old metalheadz, formation, reinforced stuff is just too weird (and thats why i love it).
I do very much enjoy these elitist threads. yes it certainly is. Probly culminating in amon tobin, squarepusher, etc.
I think there is A LOT of accessible tunes though. RnB, Hip Hop, Ragga remixes are obviously accesible to those into those (un-junglized) sounds. Further to that the soulful vocally vibes (shake it, suicide, most MIST rmx's, carlito+addicition) are pretty easy to take. Sounds like pop music, just underground.
Up from that the latinny sounds and the weirder soulful stuff (total science, beta II, london elektricty) seem not that esoteric either. It definitely takes a slightly open mind b/c it is weird, but especially as a dj playing that in the context of a set you could definitely have non-heads into it.
So long as there is melody, you could appeal to non-DnB heads into other styles of electronic music. omni trio, mellow cert 18, metalheadz, some C4C, klute, juju, seems to go off on the dancefloor amongst those not at all into DnB.
Then it gets pretty esoteric i suppose. I wouldn' play Bad Co or Stakka Skynet for my brother (even though i'm always playing polar for him). And finally the IDM influenced DnB seems pretty weird to many junglists.
But certainly the most out there stuff ever is old skool DnB. Doc Scott - Dark Angel and much of the old metalheadz, formation, reinforced stuff is just too weird (and thats why i love it).
This is a rather multi-faceted issue really.
On the one hand as a form of dance music I don't think so. The rhythm's of dnb represent a form of music that is very hypnotic...similar to trance-inducing rhythm's employed by our ancestor's. I think dnb culture attracts spiritual kinda peep's who enjoy this trance induced state with the use of drugs or not.
While it is true that it represents futurist uses of technology and the future cut, at its core it's all about attaining tha ancient benifits of a transcendent state of conciousness thru movement. In this light it's accessable to every and anyone.
Then again, to have a love for jungle, you'd have to have a love for all types of different musical flavors and an unconventional ear in contrast to the established contemporary musical tradition. It's basically controlled chaos...an epic track-ish form of music that rips and mutates parts of other music genres to make itself. It takes a fairly unique mindset to appreciate it as such.
But 'ardcore Junglism has become is so consumer oriented now that it's vile almost...so I can agree with Nebu kad that while the majority of oldschool is (artcore, atmospheric, IDM influenced, ect.), the new state of things ain't about "keeping it underground" in the same way. Yet again, another irony presents itself because the more that commerical dnb thrives, it will no doubt spawn an even more abstract and esoteric sub terra movement to counter the emerging mainstream...or at least promote some sense of equilibrium within it.
Another element to consider is what that nutter conspiracy theorist DJ Hype has often spoken of on his show. He's always talking about the "inner circle" of dnb...being the big name produces and who they choose to give dubs and REAL quality tunes out to...on this level I'm certain that there is some real esoteric business going on in the scene itself.
On the one hand as a form of dance music I don't think so. The rhythm's of dnb represent a form of music that is very hypnotic...similar to trance-inducing rhythm's employed by our ancestor's. I think dnb culture attracts spiritual kinda peep's who enjoy this trance induced state with the use of drugs or not.
While it is true that it represents futurist uses of technology and the future cut, at its core it's all about attaining tha ancient benifits of a transcendent state of conciousness thru movement. In this light it's accessable to every and anyone.
Then again, to have a love for jungle, you'd have to have a love for all types of different musical flavors and an unconventional ear in contrast to the established contemporary musical tradition. It's basically controlled chaos...an epic track-ish form of music that rips and mutates parts of other music genres to make itself. It takes a fairly unique mindset to appreciate it as such.
But 'ardcore Junglism has become is so consumer oriented now that it's vile almost...so I can agree with Nebu kad that while the majority of oldschool is (artcore, atmospheric, IDM influenced, ect.), the new state of things ain't about "keeping it underground" in the same way. Yet again, another irony presents itself because the more that commerical dnb thrives, it will no doubt spawn an even more abstract and esoteric sub terra movement to counter the emerging mainstream...or at least promote some sense of equilibrium within it.
Another element to consider is what that nutter conspiracy theorist DJ Hype has often spoken of on his show. He's always talking about the "inner circle" of dnb...being the big name produces and who they choose to give dubs and REAL quality tunes out to...on this level I'm certain that there is some real esoteric business going on in the scene itself.
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OK, i just had to look up the definition of esoteric:
1. Intended for or understood by only a particular group
2. Confined to a small group
I would have to vote yes on this, because while there are alot of parties that can say 'i like this tune' or 'i like that style', it is a smaller group that will understand and look at drum & bass on a different level, appreciating what each sub-genre brings to the table.
But i do agree that the newer, softer, vocal-type tunes are definitely not esoteric.......my mom would probably like it.
Nebu: not really sure what you mean about photek. I would definitely call his drum & bass tunes esoteric. His albums like 'modus Operandi' and 'Form & Function' are definitely not meant to be enjoyed by everyone. Fuck, i'll bet alot of so-called 'junglists' wouldn't even like these albums. But i do
EZ
1. Intended for or understood by only a particular group
2. Confined to a small group
I would have to vote yes on this, because while there are alot of parties that can say 'i like this tune' or 'i like that style', it is a smaller group that will understand and look at drum & bass on a different level, appreciating what each sub-genre brings to the table.
But i do agree that the newer, softer, vocal-type tunes are definitely not esoteric.......my mom would probably like it.
Nebu: not really sure what you mean about photek. I would definitely call his drum & bass tunes esoteric. His albums like 'modus Operandi' and 'Form & Function' are definitely not meant to be enjoyed by everyone. Fuck, i'll bet alot of so-called 'junglists' wouldn't even like these albums. But i do
EZ
the definition of esoteric that i have is "intelligible by only those with special knowledge".
what i mean about photek is that, for me, it's just really really good music. While it can be digested ad infinitum at higher levels, i think that it's beauty is easily appreciated on the surface. Also, some of his tracks seem very accessible, i "the rain". beautifull song, but not complex listening.
what i mean about photek is that, for me, it's just really really good music. While it can be digested ad infinitum at higher levels, i think that it's beauty is easily appreciated on the surface. Also, some of his tracks seem very accessible, i "the rain". beautifull song, but not complex listening.
^^ok then, going by your definition, i would say no music is esoteric. Really, we who like drum & bass do not have some special knowledge (although we all like to think that) that makes us superior to house and trance heads(again, we would all like to think that).
So no to your definition, but yes to mine.
So no to your definition, but yes to mine.
Tricky kid
TRIBE Member
what is complex listening?
a definition would be handy.
a definition would be handy.
complex dnb listening...I take that as being something like Aphex Twin - [Formula] from the Windowlicker single.
Check it...
Check it...
Tricky kid
TRIBE Member
^^^^^^thats only an example
we need a definition.
we need a definition.
complex listening.....listening that requires an attention span longer than two seconds. Ever turn on a track right in the middle of it, or flip through radio stations (more rare occurence), and it takes a little bit to pick up the groove of the track? That's what i mean. Pop music is catchy, as in you hear it and virtually immediately know what's going on....you can start singing the melodoy on spot because it goes in an obvious order.