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Is Cheating Wrong
- Thread starter Magnolia Fan
- Start date
Like I said in the other thread.
I've been the cheater and the cheated on.
Cheater was when I was unsure and immature... and I never cheated and let it go unknown, I told my g/f the next day.
Because personally I find it morally wrong.
If you're unhappy in your current situation, and want to explore other options, be open and end your current relationship. I could never go behind someone's back that I care about.
Don't hurt others for your own personal gain.
pr0nstar
I've been the cheater and the cheated on.
Cheater was when I was unsure and immature... and I never cheated and let it go unknown, I told my g/f the next day.
Because personally I find it morally wrong.
If you're unhappy in your current situation, and want to explore other options, be open and end your current relationship. I could never go behind someone's back that I care about.
Don't hurt others for your own personal gain.
pr0nstar
el presidente Highsteppa
TRIBE Member
Yes.
You're violating someone else's trust. Regardless of how you justify it, you are justifying it to yourself. No matter how you reason it, you still have taken advantage of that person's trust, and violated it. You still have hurt them. You still have put yourself and your own desires before your partner without letting them off the hook.
From the Ministry of cheating is a negative word, it the act itself isn't negative, why don't they call it something else?
Prime Minister Highsteppa
You're violating someone else's trust. Regardless of how you justify it, you are justifying it to yourself. No matter how you reason it, you still have taken advantage of that person's trust, and violated it. You still have hurt them. You still have put yourself and your own desires before your partner without letting them off the hook.
From the Ministry of cheating is a negative word, it the act itself isn't negative, why don't they call it something else?
Prime Minister Highsteppa
Magnolia Fan
TRIBE Member
I was just joking around making this actually... you guys don't need to reply to it
(thats why I put the quote from my other thread into this one... ahhh... it sucks when your jokes are such a stretch that no one gets them)
(thats why I put the quote from my other thread into this one... ahhh... it sucks when your jokes are such a stretch that no one gets them)
yes.
I don't understand why people would want to do it. If you want to sleep with someone else, then you should atleast tell your current partner and break it off first, they deserve that much, yeah it's gonna hurt them, but not as much as it would if you cheated first, then your also killing that persons trust, and what have they done to deserve that?
I don't understand why people would want to do it. If you want to sleep with someone else, then you should atleast tell your current partner and break it off first, they deserve that much, yeah it's gonna hurt them, but not as much as it would if you cheated first, then your also killing that persons trust, and what have they done to deserve that?
DJ Doublecross
TRIBE Member
Well even if this thread was created as a joke, this isn't exactly the argument I was talking about. I think the topic was more along the lines of "why, in our society, have we been conditioned to think cheating is wrong?"
Some people think just that... that we have been conditioned to think cheating is wrong, and they have a problem with that, bringing in topics like mass brainwashing, and probably tieing it to ideas like the manufacturing of consent and other such scholarly things...
My point was that with certain basic things like sex and relationships, our societal norms have been created not by specific people, but by thousands of years of experiences. It's random; there is no person or group of people plotting the future of human civilization, determining norms, steering us down a particular path, etc... people may try to do this, but the world is far too complex for any of us to control. We simply ride the wave as best as possible.
Assuming that this is true (and there's nothign to say you should, this is all just individual interpretation), you shouldn't get hung up on the idea that you need to "fight the man", or go against society's rules. Society has rules for a good reason. For example, I think humans have, for the most part, relatively conservative views on sex (like monogamous relationships) because that has allowed our civilization to grow. Certain tribes or cultures may exist in the world who thrive on polygamy and more relaxed sexual values, but I think once the society gets to a certain size and level of complexity, you need that conservatism to remain stable. Extremist cultures may be great for developing certain ideas or advancements, but they can only exist on a smaller scale.
Bah, you can really go on for hours about this... I need to get to bed though.
Rob
Some people think just that... that we have been conditioned to think cheating is wrong, and they have a problem with that, bringing in topics like mass brainwashing, and probably tieing it to ideas like the manufacturing of consent and other such scholarly things...
My point was that with certain basic things like sex and relationships, our societal norms have been created not by specific people, but by thousands of years of experiences. It's random; there is no person or group of people plotting the future of human civilization, determining norms, steering us down a particular path, etc... people may try to do this, but the world is far too complex for any of us to control. We simply ride the wave as best as possible.
Assuming that this is true (and there's nothign to say you should, this is all just individual interpretation), you shouldn't get hung up on the idea that you need to "fight the man", or go against society's rules. Society has rules for a good reason. For example, I think humans have, for the most part, relatively conservative views on sex (like monogamous relationships) because that has allowed our civilization to grow. Certain tribes or cultures may exist in the world who thrive on polygamy and more relaxed sexual values, but I think once the society gets to a certain size and level of complexity, you need that conservatism to remain stable. Extremist cultures may be great for developing certain ideas or advancements, but they can only exist on a smaller scale.
Bah, you can really go on for hours about this... I need to get to bed though.
Rob
i don't believe it's a right or wrong thing.
i believe it's more than black and white.
but like i said in the other thread-
i'm a very forgiving person and i just want you to be honest with me.
you cheated? talk to me about it.
think you can get away with it? and i found out? we're talking about it.
i believe in communication- HUGE.
in honesty- HUGE.
if i believe you truly made a mistake, moving on can only make us stronger. rebuild trust...
a friendship is a solid base for a relationship and AS A FRIEND i think i deserve the consideration -ohfriendofmine- to be honest with me.
i won't hate you, i may be upset but that's understandeable.
i won't forget, but i will forgive.
that doesn't mean i just let cheating go as an "oh well who care" attitude- it just means that there's more to the cheating issue than YOU WERE WRONG.
ya know?
did i make sense?
it's late...
narissa
i believe it's more than black and white.
but like i said in the other thread-
i'm a very forgiving person and i just want you to be honest with me.
you cheated? talk to me about it.
think you can get away with it? and i found out? we're talking about it.
i believe in communication- HUGE.
in honesty- HUGE.
if i believe you truly made a mistake, moving on can only make us stronger. rebuild trust...
a friendship is a solid base for a relationship and AS A FRIEND i think i deserve the consideration -ohfriendofmine- to be honest with me.
i won't hate you, i may be upset but that's understandeable.
i won't forget, but i will forgive.
that doesn't mean i just let cheating go as an "oh well who care" attitude- it just means that there's more to the cheating issue than YOU WERE WRONG.
ya know?
did i make sense?
it's late...
narissa
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by skyparty:
i don't believe it's a right or wrong thing.
i believe it's more than black and white.
but like i said in the other thread-
i'm a very forgiving person and i just want you to be honest with me.
you cheated? talk to me about it.
think you can get away with it? and i found out? we're talking about it.
i believe in communication- HUGE.
in honesty- HUGE.
if i believe you truly made a mistake, moving on can only make us stronger. rebuild trust...
a friendship is a solid base for a relationship and AS A FRIEND i think i deserve the consideration -ohfriendofmine- to be honest with me.
i won't hate you, i may be upset but that's understandeable.
i won't forget, but i will forgive.
that doesn't mean i just let cheating go as an "oh well who care" attitude- it just means that there's more to the cheating issue than YOU WERE WRONG.
ya know?
did i make sense?
it's late...
narissa
</font>
Yes...you make sense.
~Lori
You're violating someone else's trust.
ok but if a your FRIEND violated your trust, would you kick them to curb right away?
wouldn't you talk about it and work it out if the FRIENDSHIP was worth it to both of you?
you don't believe in second chances?
all i'm saying is - YES it's hurtful and selfish... but there's alot of hurtful and selfish things we do to our partners/close friends.
personally, i'm always looking out for everyone else and considering them before me--that i rarely hurt my friends. i have never cheated on a boyfriend i cared about, i have never violated a friend's trust or respect.
if they were close to me, they know that i would do anything for them, and as long as you're upfront and honest with me- we can work through anything. have respect for ME- but respecting our friendsip and being open and honest about basically everything.
that's not to say that i have never let go of a friend-- but that's after much abuse. you can only put up with so much bullshit before you realise the friendship is not worth it for both of you and it's just not working... much like a relationship.
i treat cheating as another "issue". a serious issue- mistakes are mistakes.
we all make them.
if you "mistakingly" hurt your partner because you are not at the same level of the relationship as your partner, then you shouldn't be together anymore anywayz.
am i making any sense?
narissa
ok but if a your FRIEND violated your trust, would you kick them to curb right away?
wouldn't you talk about it and work it out if the FRIENDSHIP was worth it to both of you?
you don't believe in second chances?
all i'm saying is - YES it's hurtful and selfish... but there's alot of hurtful and selfish things we do to our partners/close friends.
personally, i'm always looking out for everyone else and considering them before me--that i rarely hurt my friends. i have never cheated on a boyfriend i cared about, i have never violated a friend's trust or respect.
if they were close to me, they know that i would do anything for them, and as long as you're upfront and honest with me- we can work through anything. have respect for ME- but respecting our friendsip and being open and honest about basically everything.
that's not to say that i have never let go of a friend-- but that's after much abuse. you can only put up with so much bullshit before you realise the friendship is not worth it for both of you and it's just not working... much like a relationship.
i treat cheating as another "issue". a serious issue- mistakes are mistakes.
we all make them.
if you "mistakingly" hurt your partner because you are not at the same level of the relationship as your partner, then you shouldn't be together anymore anywayz.
am i making any sense?
narissa
Magnolia Fan
TRIBE Member
does that mean I have to start another thread???
uh i put "quote" in the wrong place... uh whatever...
WHERE DO I DRAW THE LINE?
i see it more as "how hurtful is too hurtful"
and to me, that depends on where you are at with the relationship and the level the two of you are with each other about that relationship
narissa
WHERE DO I DRAW THE LINE?
i see it more as "how hurtful is too hurtful"
and to me, that depends on where you are at with the relationship and the level the two of you are with each other about that relationship
narissa
Booty Bits
TRIBE Member
yeah, Magnolia Fan, the 'other discussion' was supposed to be about why people in our society think cheating is a mortal sin.
i think people want to believe in absolutes. it makes life simple. that is similar to rob's argument that monogamy makes society stable.
the fact is, we are humans are given the ability to think freely, and to evaluate our morality.
we don't NEED to just accept societal norms as they are.
ponder this: marriage in north america isn't panning out particularly well for our parents' generation. i am a in a minority simply because i come from a 2 parent family.
the way i see it, straight up 'i choose you for life, and only you for life and i wouldn't dare think or touch someone else for the rest of my life' attitude will only get you into trouble.
its a romantic notion that just doesn't mesh with my view of the world.
so, my opinion about the real question we should be considering: cheating may be wrong for you as an individual, and its important that you get into a relationship with someone who feels the same way.
but don't totally rule out the fact that we have been TAUGHT to believe that monogamy is best, and that it may NOT be the natural way for humans to behave.
i think people want to believe in absolutes. it makes life simple. that is similar to rob's argument that monogamy makes society stable.
the fact is, we are humans are given the ability to think freely, and to evaluate our morality.
we don't NEED to just accept societal norms as they are.
ponder this: marriage in north america isn't panning out particularly well for our parents' generation. i am a in a minority simply because i come from a 2 parent family.
the way i see it, straight up 'i choose you for life, and only you for life and i wouldn't dare think or touch someone else for the rest of my life' attitude will only get you into trouble.
its a romantic notion that just doesn't mesh with my view of the world.
so, my opinion about the real question we should be considering: cheating may be wrong for you as an individual, and its important that you get into a relationship with someone who feels the same way.
but don't totally rule out the fact that we have been TAUGHT to believe that monogamy is best, and that it may NOT be the natural way for humans to behave.
true.
are you limited to only love ONE PERSON?
i don'tbelieve that.
and i don't believe you must stay commited to someone "til death do you part" as marriage is stated because let's be honest with ourselves. there are variables, and whatever that there come a point when the commitment/relationship you have with someone can change.
and i don't believe that change should be looked down upon, or feared for that matter.
narissa
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by skyparty:
true.
are you limited to only love ONE PERSON?
i don'tbelieve that.
and i don't believe you must stay commited to someone "til death do you part" as marriage is stated because let's be honest with ourselves. there are variables, and whatever that there come a point when the commitment/relationship you have with someone can change.
and i don't believe that change should be looked down upon, or feared for that matter.
narissa
</font>
Again...Narissa, I couldnt agree more with you. But we're talking about cheating here. Yes people do change, yes people are entitled to love more then one person...but at least have the respect for the other person and YOURSELF to be honest. I agree with Booty Bits completely...it all boils down to individual relationships. Dont get yourself involved with people who dont share similiar beliefs and morals.
~Lori
DJ Doublecross
TRIBE Member
In response to Liz, I still don't view the fact that we are taught to believe in monogamy as a bad thing. I believe it simply came to be that way from natural progression. As society gets more complex, its inhabitants move from a polygamous, "free-reign" viewpoint to a more conservative, but easier to control, state of monogamy.
Now that's not to say that everyone has to follow society's rules. Some people don't like the way society works, and they choose to live life their own way. If they can find other people to share their views, and do it all within the laws of our society, then they can all be happy. However, if you get too many people thinking radical thoughts and acting on them, then society will collapse into anarchy. You need to have a population that is easy to control, and that means rules and norms are necessary. And this isn't evil! It's not a scheme thought up by crusty old white men sitting in a board room (although I'm not denying that some not-so-good things are plotted by people like this), it's the natural order of complex civilizations. It's necessary for the "masses" to follow society's rules in order to achieve stability and, ultimately, growth.
Now you may ask, "so why are concepts like monogamy not working out for our parents? For that matter, why the hell is the rest of society so screwed up too? Even democracy doesn't work anymore!"
Well, my view on that is that our society is becoming too large and too complex, to the point that the rules and values we have today are insufficient to stabilize ourselves. We are sitting on the brink of collapse, much like the romans were almost 2000 years ago, because we don't have the means to control ourselves. I honestly don't know where society is going to go from here, but I do think that throwing out ideas like monogamy for more chaotic concepts like polygamy is a step in the wrong direction. It would only further increase the complexity that we have to deal with, and society would go to hell even faster. What we need to do is simplify things even further, and figure out how the hell we're supposed to get along with each other in a world with 6 or 7 billion greedy people.
Man, these arguments just escalate in scope don't they? It's getting a little rediculous... anyone want to argue about the nature of the universe?
Okay, bed time for real this time... I'll check in on this tomorrow night.
Rob
Now that's not to say that everyone has to follow society's rules. Some people don't like the way society works, and they choose to live life their own way. If they can find other people to share their views, and do it all within the laws of our society, then they can all be happy. However, if you get too many people thinking radical thoughts and acting on them, then society will collapse into anarchy. You need to have a population that is easy to control, and that means rules and norms are necessary. And this isn't evil! It's not a scheme thought up by crusty old white men sitting in a board room (although I'm not denying that some not-so-good things are plotted by people like this), it's the natural order of complex civilizations. It's necessary for the "masses" to follow society's rules in order to achieve stability and, ultimately, growth.
Now you may ask, "so why are concepts like monogamy not working out for our parents? For that matter, why the hell is the rest of society so screwed up too? Even democracy doesn't work anymore!"
Well, my view on that is that our society is becoming too large and too complex, to the point that the rules and values we have today are insufficient to stabilize ourselves. We are sitting on the brink of collapse, much like the romans were almost 2000 years ago, because we don't have the means to control ourselves. I honestly don't know where society is going to go from here, but I do think that throwing out ideas like monogamy for more chaotic concepts like polygamy is a step in the wrong direction. It would only further increase the complexity that we have to deal with, and society would go to hell even faster. What we need to do is simplify things even further, and figure out how the hell we're supposed to get along with each other in a world with 6 or 7 billion greedy people.
Man, these arguments just escalate in scope don't they? It's getting a little rediculous... anyone want to argue about the nature of the universe?
Okay, bed time for real this time... I'll check in on this tomorrow night.
Rob
hrmm.. well, if it's 'cheating' it's wrong. fact is, cheating is betraying someone elses trust. however, that doesn't mean that sleeping around is wrong, or monogomy is right. being truthful to yourself and to your partner is what's important. if you're in a polyamorous relationship, and your partners know it, i don't think it can be seen as cheating. different people need different things at different times in their lives.. if you feel your relationship changing status/you desire something else, be straight up about it.
Temper Tantrum
TRIBE Member
Smartest thing I've read all day
Life is not black and white, it's found in all shades of grey.
~allie~
Fir3start3r
TRIBE Member
Cheating? Wrong.
I agree with the strong consensus of;
1) You break the other person's trust.
2) Grovelling to come back is a wimp's way of trying to justify the situation which was under the cheater's control.
3) Honesty is the best policy.
If you don't think you really love the person you're going out with; why cheat when you can break it off and have a clear conscience? People cheat because they think they can get away with it and slide back to their 'safe' relationship without hurting anyone and testing the 'other side of the fence'; to see how they would feel; the cost outweighs the benefits no matter if they get caught or not.
4) Cheaters don't know how to take responsiblity in a relationship and are just too immature.
My Question:
What do you think the purpose of 'going out' is then? If it's not for marriage then what's the point? For security? How secure is a relationship really if their's insecurity involved?
I agree with the strong consensus of;
1) You break the other person's trust.
2) Grovelling to come back is a wimp's way of trying to justify the situation which was under the cheater's control.
3) Honesty is the best policy.
If you don't think you really love the person you're going out with; why cheat when you can break it off and have a clear conscience? People cheat because they think they can get away with it and slide back to their 'safe' relationship without hurting anyone and testing the 'other side of the fence'; to see how they would feel; the cost outweighs the benefits no matter if they get caught or not.
4) Cheaters don't know how to take responsiblity in a relationship and are just too immature.
My Question:
What do you think the purpose of 'going out' is then? If it's not for marriage then what's the point? For security? How secure is a relationship really if their's insecurity involved?