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How-To Guide: Growing Techno in Toronto

musork

TRIBE Member
Skipper said:
What do you consider to be a live artist? are you talking about bands and other kinds of musical performers, like king sunshine or whatever? or just dudes behind a computer pumping out techno?
both... but
come to the jan jelinek event youll see exactly what I mean...
for the record I HATE jam bands that maskerade around as electronic music becasue they happen to have some keyboard and some efx peddles as part of thier set up... thats not EM
 

isoprax

TRIBE Promoter
musork said:
you are the exception to the rule then for the majority of people I know would rather see the live artist...in a concert venue like the drake then a dj play in a concert venue...
personally and everyone knows how I feel about this I have little interest in seeing a dj play if I can see a live artist play in stead... Im not and never have been dj focused... Im a musican and have always been intersted in other musicans work...not how a dj plays other musicans work...

It seems to me like your more interested in how it's done and not what's coming out of the stacks (also sorta what you're saying at the end there...). Just how you come across to me. I'm sure you care. That's fine though, you can toe tap at the back while I'm either having fun up front or going home because it sucks.

I'm (my attitude) not an exception, just not so common in this area.
 

Lurker

TRIBE Member
I do enjoy when guys play on a laptop with a little midi box, but it's not as exciting somehow as someone throwing down wax. There's something about the record worship where you can see the changes of records, and maybe see a good one held up to be applauded. It's more of a show, I guess. Something tangible instead of just a file.

To me, a rockin live set is something like the Chems where they have all their gear. Sure their sequences are all programmed, but they still have to work it.

But hey, in the end, so long as it sounds good, I'm happy.
 

Skipper

TRIBE Member
Lurker said:
I do enjoy when guys play on a laptop with a little midi box, but it's not as exciting somehow as someone throwing down wax. There's something about the record worship where you can see the changes of records, and maybe see a good one held up to be applauded. It's more of a show, I guess. Something tangible instead of just a file.
Agreed, and also, with DJs there is the anticipation of the next track, particularly if the DJ is playing vinyl and digging through crates.

I don't tend to listen to live PAs and anxiously await the moment the low end changes...
 

musork

TRIBE Member
your all really stuck in the party state of mind, I hate to say it but your all in for a boring time down the road if you dont like live artists as the winds have been blowing in that direction since 2000 and continue to blow harder and harder every day... standard djing is a thing of the past and its the prime reason why you cant get new people interested in comming out to your DJ events...
 

why not

TRIBE Member
isoprax said:
Oddly enough i believe the opposite. I think the live artist explosion is what killed it.
i think the shift from DJs as part of a party to DJs being the focus of a 'concert' was what helped kill it.
the live artist thing is just part of that trend, not the cause.

let's face it - a band is entertaining to watch on stage, whether they're jumping around or not.
very few people find watching a DJ exciting (except for other DJs, or except for a few 'showman' DJs like Donald Glaude), and very few people find laptop shows exciting (except for other laptop performers, or the rare cases of 'showmen' like kid606 or t.raumshmiere).

however, i think that neil is right in that the future is definitely not in DJing traditionally. there will always be people who do that, and who do it well, but it's definitely a dying medium, and software is opening up too many possibilities to ignore.



someone else brought up that the sloppy DJing of the indie kids is disrespectful to the history of DJ culture, but i think that's short sighted.
the vast majority of those kids were already familiar with DJ culture, and went to at least some raves or DJ parties.
they didn't however find the current state of the culture interesting, so they went back to going to see bands in bars. they still missed dancing though, and weren't that down with the inherent necrophilia of rock bands, so they started their own thing that borrowed from the dance music world, but more the early days of dance music.
they wanted to have parties where they could dance to this music, so they started throwing them. despite the fact that most of them couldn't mix, the kids still had fun so it grew (sounds kind of like the early rave days, eh?).
these days though, those kids are learning to mix, and are concerned with respecting the craft. trust me, i've seen them improve, in some cases i've had to hear them practice, and i've talked to them about these issues.
the music however is not always made to be mixed, so it will never be seemless, but they wouldn't want it that way.
i don't see reacting to this movement as chasing whatever's cool, more as realising that there are some cool things there worth listening to and worth playing.
before you write it off, try DJing an open format set. try changing tempos and moving between decades. try mixing records with live drums (and realise how hard it is). experiment with the possibilities - there's much fun to be had.
they're not your enemy - many of them like much of your music, they just think your parties are boring (and much of the time they're right).

of course you could just stick your head in the sand and stick to your guns - if you're happy, then things don't need to change (keeping in mind that things always change)
 

t_smack

TRIBE Member
I've been reading through this thread and find that a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about how to 'revive' or 'grow' or 'expand' techno in this city. The one thing i find that most people have in common is passion. and i think that is the key to techno's survival. throw a concert, throw a party, have some friends over to spin tunes in your basement or watch you click buttons on your laptop.. i really could care less about how you do it, but if the passion is there people will respond. who cares about the format in which it is presented.. if you show pride and care in the event you're throwing, even if you can only convince one new person that this is something cool and unique, doesn't that count for something??

I think the bottom line is preach what you feel, if you don't than you're a poser and you need to fuck off. i give huge props to all the various promoters and party throwers in Toronto, because i think without them we would not even have this thread, at least we have a techno scene to try and build upon. A lot of cities don't even have a foundation. So keep on preachin' what you're preachin, and don't listen to all the haters.. just my two cents



And long live detroit techno, vinyl 4 life..

peace
 

alma

TRIBE Member
why not said:
… a few 'showman' DJs like Donald Glaude), and very few people find laptop shows exciting (except for other laptop performers, or the rare cases of 'showmen' like kid606 or t.raumshmiere).
Who would you say are some other showman djs (of all genres and techniques)? I want to see a really good showman event live. In turntablism I still think of Roc Raida; saw him on a dvd and he was incredibly good.
 

vveerrgg

TRIBE Promoter
i agree... do whatever you can do to get more ppl interested in techno. organized or not... it can't hurt any
 

musork

TRIBE Member
since when is Roc Raida techno??? have I missed some thing here?
any how this thread is lame IMHO I used to and still do prefer to play in total darkness its about the MUSIC not the show.. if you want a show go see a MOVIE or a PlAY or a peeler bar (what ever your flavor of choice is) but when it comes down to it a CONCERT is about MUSIC and last time I looked music us SOUND, AURAL for the EARS and NOT for the EYES... if you think a show depends on someones stage presence and showmanship then thier music must really SUCK as its the music your going to a concert for to HEAR and LISTEN TO... not to LOOK and SEE...
if you want to look and see music then stay home and watch much music as the artists they play on music music needs the visual eye candy to make what they are doing good as alone thier music doesnt stand on its own...
 

why not

TRIBE Member
20 said:
Who would you say are some other showman djs (of all genres and techniques)? I want to see a really good showman event live. In turntablism I still think of Roc Raida; saw him on a dvd and he was incredibly good.
well, i don't actually think it's a good thing to rely on visual showmanship as a DJ, and i'm nostalgic for the days when the DJ was up in a booth about the dancefloor and you couldn't see what was going on. the whole wizard of oz behind the curtain thing.
granted, if you're stuck on the middle of a well lit stage DJing, or the crowd is right in front of you, you might as well try to look like you're having fun, because people will be staring at you whether you want them to or not.

since you asked -

jelo and deko-ze are definitely showmen in their genre of dance music - not really into what they do, but they're great at interacting with the crowd and hyping up a party.

carl cox gets on the mic and when it works he can make a huge room feel like a small club. (again, not really into what he does either, but you've got to respect the dude)

in the deep house world, joe claussell is famous for freaking out on the isolator/crossover and rolling his eyes back into his head when he's really 'feeling it'.

in the rare groove world - keb darge is a bit of a showman when he talks on the mic and dances around.

i'm not really talking about showmanship on a technical level, because that's not really being a showman - it's the equivalent of a wanky classical metal guitar solo really, when what most of the crowd would prefer is a two note AC/DC style solo while the guitar player throws himself around the stage.
 

why not

TRIBE Member
musork said:
since when is Roc Raida techno??? have I missed some thing here?
any how this thread is lame IMHO I used to and still do prefer to play in total darkness its about the MUSIC not the show.. if you want a show go see a MOVIE or a PlAY or a peeler bar (what ever your flavor of choice is) but when it comes down to it a CONCERT is about MUSIC and last time I looked music us SOUND, AURAL for the EARS and NOT for the EYES... if you think a show depends on someones stage presence and showmanship then thier music must really SUCK as its the music your going to a concert for to HEAR and LISTEN TO... not to LOOK and SEE...
if you want to look and see music then stay home and watch much music as the artists they play on music music needs the visual eye candy to make what they are doing good as alone thier music doesnt stand on its own...
i would disagree actually.
unless the musicians are improvising a lot (ie. jazz), or unless their technique is just so impressive that it's actually interesting to watch, i'd rather stay home and listen to the album if the performer isn't going to perform.

playing in a rock band requires an appreciation for the non-musical aspects of a performance.
you've done performances while someone performed a visual component i'm sure? same thing, except you are the visual component, and how you express yourself on stage can have a huge effect on how the music is heard.
maybe we should just have blank cover on albums too?
i think most artists these days think in a multi-media way whether they realise it or not, whether it's in terms of a full on pyrotechnics and video show, or just deciding what shirt they want to wear on stage, it's pretty hard not to be aware of the visual component. even a pitch black room is still a statement.

(except in relation to DJing. i don't care about seeing the DJ, and i don't think they should be on the stage. it should be about the music, the party, and the dance)
 

alma

TRIBE Member
Duly noted. And all of those guys are either local or have been here since the summer, so me seeing them might actually happen!




why not said:
joe claussell is famous for freaking out on the isolator/crossover and rolling his eyes back into his head when he's really 'feeling it'.
Someone posted this 'feeling it' shot of him: JC
 

musork

TRIBE Member
why not said:
i would disagree actually.
unless the musicians are improvising a lot (ie. jazz), or unless their technique is just so impressive that it's actually interesting to watch, i'd rather stay home and listen to the album if the performer isn't going to perform.
well maybe I see it that way because my own live shows are 100 percent improvised and 99 percent of the artists I book or play shows with are improvising (news flash you dont have to be a jazz musican to improvise - much of the laptop music today is improvised on some sort of level if not compleatly)
 

miller

TRIBE Member
why not said:
well, i don't actually think it's a good thing to rely on visual showmanship as a DJ, and i'm nostalgic for the days when the DJ was up in a booth about the dancefloor and you couldn't see what was going on. the whole wizard of oz behind the curtain thing.
.
word. line'em up and play them.
 

I<3Robots

TRIBE Member
musork said:
also one otehr thing is we need to stop thinking in the concepts of parties and more into the concepts of concerts or music showcases... if we are to continue to eveolve with the times... as more annd more artists are live and not djing the events are more concerts then parties and need to be promototed in that manner ... people are more liekly willing to pay 20 bucks for a live artist then a dj when the event is taking place in spots like the drake for example...
what neil said a few pages ago...

i've only been going out to live shows for years now. it's my preference that i'd rather hear the artist than someone dj it. but i don't need a big "show" from the artist, although when it happens i don't mind, as long as it doesn't detract and become more about the showiness than the music.

and in the future...(verg, this one's for you...)

i want to see it all taken online where a live artist performs and listeners/participants are charged a subscription in a one off way for a specific event (ie a ticket:p). who needs to be confined by a venue or even a city or country? set up and broadcast.

i'm time challenged and quite simply can't make it out. and if i do go out it's because i really need to be there because it's an artist i'm loving at this specific moment in time, not someone that i loved once a long time ago.

give me something to stimulate my ears while i sit at my computer. give me a forum. give me new, now.

ps why should a promoter be confined by a city, region, country, either?

don't think it could work? it's not rocket science.
 

musork

TRIBE Member
I<3Robots said:
i want to see it all taken online where a live artist performs and listeners/participants are charged a subscription in a one off way for a specific event (ie a ticket:p). who needs to be confined by a venue or even a city or country? set up and broadcast.
give me something to stimulate my ears while i sit at my computer. give me a forum. give me new, now.
ps why should a promoter be confined by a city, region, country, either?
don't think it could work? it's not rocket science.
acctually this is all in the works
its a lot harder then one thinks not technially as much as artists them selfs taking it seriously...
its unexplored territory and there for artists are afraid of it...
 

gsnuff

TRIBE Promoter
musork said:
its unexplored territory and there for artists are afraid of it...
FSOL did a much hyped ISDN performance many years back. I'm sure you know the following Neil, but for anyone that is interested the SAT is doing a lot of resarch into logistics and software to accomodate video/music streamed performance.

I don't know if I'm really sold on the idea. I'm pretty flexible about what constitutes "performance" but I do like the idea of the artist being in the room!
 

isoprax

TRIBE Promoter
Didn't Monolake and someone else do a collaborative live set over the net a while back...??I recall something along those lines
 

musork

TRIBE Member
gsnuff said:
I'm sure you know the following Neil, but for anyone that is interested the SAT is doing a lot of resarch into logistics and software to accomodate video/music streamed performance.
you thats what I eman by saying
"acctually this is all in the works"
its acctually the project that la sat had me employed for 10 months on building out thier network infastructure and topology and running the early beta tests
they did a few runs with the share NYC folks using the technology already...
its pretty seet but I tend to agree with greg nothign like having the artist in the room ... its a perforamnce and to me that is a momentary work that is time based for that point and time and space there for it destroys the point of the concept of a concert setting...
 

musork

TRIBE Member
isoprax said:
Didn't Monolake and someone else do a collaborative live set over the net a while back...??I recall something along those lines
yup atlantic waves is the project name its a monolake and deadbeat project they have done many performances like this over the last 5 or 6 years...
nice stuff...
 

why not

TRIBE Member
I<3Robots said:
what neil said a few pages ago...

i've only been going out to live shows for years now. it's my preference that i'd rather hear the artist than someone dj it. but i don't need a big "show" from the artist, although when it happens i don't mind, as long as it doesn't detract and become more about the showiness than the music.

and in the future...(verg, this one's for you...)

i want to see it all taken online where a live artist performs and listeners/participants are charged a subscription in a one off way for a specific event (ie a ticket:p). who needs to be confined by a venue or even a city or country? set up and broadcast.

i'm time challenged and quite simply can't make it out. and if i do go out it's because i really need to be there because it's an artist i'm loving at this specific moment in time, not someone that i loved once a long time ago.

give me something to stimulate my ears while i sit at my computer. give me a forum. give me new, now.

ps why should a promoter be confined by a city, region, country, either?

don't think it could work? it's not rocket science.

the ambient ping are now doing internet based broadcasts of live shows instead of their long time weekly club event.
there have been other live performances over the internet in other genres (pop), but i can't see myself wanting to pay for it unless it was something very unique.
 
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