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**healing By Touch**

quantumize

TRIBE Member
i don't know polish princess i've never met her, really.

but i think it's terrible that people are flaming her for what she believes. mabye you might not agree* but if it makes her feel better, and she believes it then all the more power to her. even if it's a fraud and the whole thing just makes her mom feel better isn't there some use in that


polishprincess: i appologize for the ignorance of a few, and i assure most of will not give you flack fro believing whatever you wish

i still don't believe it but if she feels better then great i'm happy for you





*i for one don't
 
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DeepSix

TRIBE Promoter
Man, some of you need to wake up and realize a bunch of things:

a) Pain is a subjective thing - i.e. it is defined by the person experiencing it. There are both physical and psychological components to pain, and often times, the psychological aspect affects the person more than the physical. A person defines what pain means to them...but pain can be measured in other more empirical ways - nerve action potentials, etc.

b) If you've never experienced chronic pain, you likely have no clue what you're talking about. It's not like getting cramps. It's not like hitting your thumb with a hammer. It is with you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It is part of you...and if you let it, it will define you.

c) Take a look at literature on "Healing Touch" - it's a recognized form of therapy in paliative situations. It is practiced by Registered Nurses and Doctors...not "quacks", not "voodoo practitioners"...board certified, college registered health care professionals.

d) Cure is a dangerous word. Removing the symptomology or sequelae of a disease process does not really technically equal curing, but it may be something that allows the person to carry on with their life.

e) to those of you calling BS, fine...it may have no "scientific" basis and it may not "cure" anything...but if the person can do things that they could not do before treatment, is it really BS?
I am in full support, medically and therapeutically, of any treatment which does not hurt the person and increases function.

f) there are actually good points in what PostMOD is saying - however, it's not as simple as telling someone that they are healed. It is human nature to expect ritual, be it dancing around a fire singing chants or going to physiotherapy for ultrasound treatment 3x/week. The journey through the disease process that is just as important as the end result. And the journey is different depending on the person.

We have a tenet - if a person doesn't "buy in" to the therapeutic modality (i.e. the method of treatment), it's likely that it won't work...no matter how much scientific evidence there is that it would. Success is much higher if the person does "buy in" - whether it be drugs, physiotherapy, surgery, or faith healing.

The mind *is* a powerful thing, but there are a few people here who put a very negative spin on what, essentially, is a positive thing.

Western medicine places very little faith in the power of the person and too much in science and technology. In my opinion, both have their time and place, and often in cases of chronic pain, Western Medicine fails miserably. Too often, we treat the
symptoms and not the person.

I'll give you a practical example from my clinical experience.

I treat people with soft-tissue injuries, for the most part - whiplash, etc. The best thing I can tell them (when the time is right - i.e. when the injury is not acute) is that while there may be HURT, there is no longer any more HARM that they are doing to themselves by mopping the floor or whatever. I have so many people that give up doing everything because it hurts. And after we go through that, they recognize that "hey, he's right. I may be in pain, but I'm not doing any more damage to my neck". And then they are better equipped to cope with their activities - and may seemed "cured" or "healed"...chances are, they still feel a lot of pain...but often, society judges how healthy a person is by outward signs - like how productive they are/how much they participate.

Anyway, if you have any other questions about chronic pain, drop me a line. I don't often say I am an expert in anything, but this is one area that I have a lot of experience in.

Wow...that was a long post...sorry, I just felt the need to discuss this - as it's quite misunderstood.
 

tayo

TRIBE Member
so this doesn't really have much to do with anything but once i was watching Nova, and there was this woman with a cancerous tumor on her face, and her doctors told her they couldn't do much about it and then one day she was washing her face and the tumor fell off and she was cured.
and i swear this is true because it was on PUBLIC television.
 
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Preroller

TRIBE Member
Thats good to hear. Send my best to your family!

I saw a show on discovery once where they had an asian guy very simelar to this and they had a infrared?heat camera in the room. It started all blue and green, but when he rubbed his hands together his hands showed up really red and yellow indicating intense heat in his hands. He would simply put his hands on people and it too seemed to 'mysteriously' cure people. I think they registered the temp on his hands at 200 degrees or something extra-ordinary.

I don't have any answers as to why stuff like this may or may not work, but if it makes people feel better, then all the power to them. I'd just be scared of the $200/half hour price tag, as I'm sure there could be some people in this world who would take advantage of others.

DAVE
 

jus me

TRIBE Member
Hey PP,

I think the practice you are speaking about is called Reiki. I tried it before, as well as another one. It was when I was younger, so I don't remember the name. I'm happy to know it worked for your mom! She should continue seeing the practioner then. However, in my case it didn't. May work for some, but not others.

:)
 

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by Preroller I'd just be scared of the $200/half hour price tag,[/B]

The treatment is bound to work if it costs that much, since the person is compelled to feel better by virtue of the fact that they won't want admit to being ripped off.

Odd, how stuff that isn't covered by OHIP and is paid for out of pocket seems to work, eh?

If we placed greater emphasis on teaching people how to metaprogram their minds, then there would be no need to pay someone to do it for you.

One thing minds don't like to do is change, since it is easier for the greater, unconscious mind to stay as is, whether that means staying in pain, or eating the same breakfast for years and years, or whatever... if we were taught how to go about changing those programs in our minds (i.e. metaprogram), we could heal ourselves of much...
 
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PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by quantumize
but i think it's terrible that people are flaming her for what she believes.

If anything, I am trying to help. You see, if people start to think that quackery works, then they will run to them first, instead of going for scientifically proven treatments.

That is dangerous.


Originally posted by quantumize
polishprincess: i appologize for the ignorance of a few...

Don't you dare presume that you can apologize for me, or anyone who is trying to help.

I am getting rid of ignorance here, so don't you come pretending to be a saviour or whatever the fuck you are doing.

I won't stand idly by while someone gets ripped off and then proudly displays it on a message board.

If her mother feels better, that's great; it's wonderful in fact. But to say that it had anything to do with some rip-off artist's bullshit is just fucking wrong.
 

DeepSix

TRIBE Promoter
PostMOD, check my post above and let me know what you think.

I agree with you in the most part in theory...it's in the practice that I think things are different.
 

quantumize

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd





Don't you dare presume that you can apologize for me, or anyone who is trying to help.

I am getting rid of ignorance here, so don't you come pretending to be a saviour or whatever the fuck you are doing.


unfortunatley i wasn't talking to you timo, but if i was i can understand your anger


in this case, however, it is unfounded. i was referring to someobdy else. i would never appologize on behalf of somebody that is trying to help.
 
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PolishPrincess

TRIBE Member
Thanks everyone for the good wishes....i know it sounds wacky...but its helping...we will stick with it.

i read everyones posts, and i see where you are coming from PosTMOD.... but i don't think that we are being ripped off.

correction: after i spoke with my mom she corrected me and told me it's only $100 for 45mins. so that's also a little easier to swallow for those of you who did PM!!
 

graham

Well-Known TRIBEr
I say this to the disbelievers:

Genesis - Invisible Touch

it may have been invisible, but it's effects were nothing short of fuckin A-mazing

and dancing
 
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gubydal

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
Bullshit.

Ok... the man recovered from terminal cancer after the treatment he received. Fact. Interpretation is up to you.

What about the rest?

If you were living in the Stone Age and I showed you a microwave what would you think? All I'm saying is that we don't know what the BIG PICTURE is... we only see our small part. Everything is a contribution to evolution (even George B Jr.). One thousand years from now our species will be looking back at us the way we look back at the people who said that the world was flat. Flat... ha! You'd fall off the edge into oblivion if you went far enough out into the sea.

History has proven over and over again that the "radical" thinkers of their times have been correct. Copernicus was the first to say that the Earth revolved around the Sun, Newton showed that this is caused by the universal law of gravity. If gravity works, Earth and other planets have to go around the Sun. If I'm not mistaken people were executed because that concept was so radical that the church and governments agreed that such theorys were "dangerous" and "blasphemous". All this... less than 500 years ago.

Open your mind to the possibilities and potential that we have. I have personally seen people make "magical" transformations, I haven't facilitated anything close to the like of what we're talking about in this thread but I believe. I believe in our potential as a species, I believe that we are in a constant state of evolution and that we don't know everything yet...

I've read many of your posts and I appreciate your intelligence and logic. Remember that intelligence and logic are both things that are based on our current knowledge. You have the potential for so much more.

Warmest regards,
Shawna
 

gubydal

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd


If we placed greater emphasis on teaching people how to metaprogram their minds, then there would be no need to pay someone to do it for you.

NLP. Neuro Linguistic Programming... such a wonderful tool. It should be taught in public schools. There's plenty of info on the internet for anyone who's interested.

Originally posted by PosTMOd One thing minds don't like to do is change, since it is easier for the greater, unconscious mind to stay as is, whether that means staying in pain, or eating the same breakfast for years and years, or whatever... if we were taught how to go about changing those programs in our minds (i.e. metaprogram), we could heal ourselves of much...

Yes. People would benefit greatly if they had the ability to free their minds from what is known and began exploring the unknown.

Shawna
 
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PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by gubydal
Ok... the man recovered from terminal cancer after the treatment he received. Fact. Interpretation is up to you.

Each of us recovers every single day from cancers.

Tumours grow in us, and are swept away by our immune systems all the time. That's a fact.

Occasionally, yes, someone will be able to fight off even a large tumour. We may all have done that as well-- how do we know? Unfortunately, someone will have also sought some bullshit 'treatment' at the same time as their body decided to fight off the tumour, and thus their recovery is temporally associated with a bullshit.

Association does not mean causation. Millions of cases point toward these things being bullshit, but of course let's override everything with a half dozen anecdotes, shall we?
 

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by gubydal
Yes. People would benefit greatly if they had the ability to free their minds from what is known and began exploring the unknown.

Most people cannot, and for a simple reason: They do not have knowledge, and without that, how can one have metaknowledge?

One cannot know about the unknown without metaknowledge, which tells a person both what they know and what they don't know. It's a strange thing, knowing what you don't know, isn't it? For how can you know what you don't know, without knowing it?
 

graham

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by PosTMOd
Each of us recovers every single day from cancers.

Tumours grow in us, and are swept away by our immune systems all the time. That's a fact.

Occasionally, yes, someone will be able to fight off even a large tumour. We may all have done that as well-- how do we know? Unfortunately, someone will have also sought some bullshit 'treatment' at the same time as their body decided to fight off the tumour, and thus their recovery is temporally associated with a bullshit.

Association does not mean causation. Millions of cases point toward these things being bullshit, but of course let's override everything with a half dozen anecdotes, shall we?

you're right.

some of it is coincidence, some is power of the mind

placebo effect is a strong force, and should be employed systematically, as opposed to random frauds that are basically fortune-telling criminals.
 
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BigBadBaldy

TRIBE Member
Why is it that when you disagree with something and post a different opinion you're accused of flaming and intolerence? Discussions are best between people with differing viewpoints. It makes me want to scream. Like you can't even initiate a real conversation or debate around here without someone crying.
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
By the garbage in the food court, I saw a barrel full of pop can tabs today.. what a great idea!

:D
 

gasper

TRIBE Member
Some therapies that are being applied these days are outright ridiculous. Granted, the placebo effect can be great. However, the fact that people feel comfortable forking over hundreds or thousands of dollars for such treatments baffles me. How anyone can believe that such therapies can do anything more than make you THINK you're being healed is beyond my understanding. I DO believe that if your mind is healthy, you'll be less susceptible to disease development and progression.

While I accept the merits of a number of alternative therapies (herbology, accupunture)...I'd LOVE to read reviews (and by reviews I mean high impact journal articles that refer to many substantiated studies) pertaining to the following alternative therapies.

- harmonic healing
- touch therapy
- homeopathy


Anyone have such articles?
 
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