Harvard vs. U of T

[teknikal]

The Globe and Mail -- Harvard versus U of T

Man, Harvard sounds pretty good right about now.

Too bad I'd never be able to get in, not even in a million lifetimes!

 

[madnezz]

wow, that's a shitty little article. I don't even know what the point of it was.

adios
Laura <--- would REALLY have liked to go to harvard (maybe for grad!!!! *wink*)

 

[coleridge]

Yeah it was pretty crappy.

But I've heard the same thing from a few people I know who've gone to Harvard. The challenge is getting in ... once that's done it's a joke.

 

[Sukebe Jiji]

That was indeed a shitty article...like, did the authour do undergrad at Harvard and then grad-school at U of T?? Where is her rationale behind commenting that Harvard students would only get C's at U of T???

Regardless, right now there is a big uproar amongst the Ivy League schools, and a few of the top West coast schools (re: Stanford), regarding grade inflation. Harvard and Stanford are BY FAR the two biggest offenders in this regard...I think something like 80% of Harvard students make Dean's list...Right now almost all of the Ivy schools are implementing grade deflation policies...For example at Columbia (which already has the strictest grading in the Ivy League) the necessary GPA to make Deans list is jumping from a 3.33 to a 3.6 (equivalent to a B+ (88%) to an A- (92%) jump).

In Harvard's defense most of the students who do go there are extremely capable and intelligent...probably having never scored anything less than an A probably throughout their entire academic career. So odds are most of these students deserve these high grades...but conversely, by having so many students make Dean's List, it takes away from the prestige of the honour.

oh! And since I now have the chance to put Harvard down, which I love doing..at Harvard, as an undergrad, you do not even SEE a professor until 3rd year!! BOO HARVARD!

peter

 

[air-bag]

I said it before, UofT admits everyone, but by the time you reach 3rd year you have a considerable chance of dropping out. It is just a way to make money by having you pay for 1st and 2nd year courses while not downgrading its own reputation by giving you a degree.

I conclude that from my observations of comp sci program. From my calculations only 20% of 1st year students get to graduate.

 

[vinder]

just cause you got A's in high school does not mean you'll get A's in university.

 

[Sukebe Jiji]

Originally posted by air-bag
I said it before, UofT admits everyone, but by the time you reach 3rd year you have a considerable chance of dropping out. It is just a way to make money by having you pay for 1st and 2nd year courses while not downgrading its own reputation by giving you a degree.

I conclude that from my observations of comp sci program. From my calculations only 20% of 1st year students get to graduate.

Damn! That is insane! Isn't there any sort of guidance program to prevent that? Those numbers are like looking at the graduation rates for a University of Alabama football team!!



Vinder> I don't know if that was directed at my comments but....if I compared two people, one who got all 'A's and one who got all 'C's in High School, I would say the one who got all 'A's would have a significantly higher chance of continuing this level of success in university/college.

 

[Nub!]

Wasn't there some thing against Harvard's marking techniques?

The pressure for professors to grade everything higher than it should have been due to funding and keeping their clientel?

(So they'd give you an A on a paper, because your daddy is rich and want to keep you there paying them money)

 

[PosTMOd]

U of T grades mainly using multiple choice tests.

They do not test your knowledge. They simply make it easy for them to keep a nice distribution of marks with a C average.

In one course I took, the prof was telling the class that he gets in shit every year from the directors because his course average was A. He didn't use multiple choice tests.

U of T is ASS... bigtime.

 

[activate]

Originally posted by vinder
just cause you got A's in high school does not mean you'll get A's in university.

and vise versa.

 

[air-bag]

Originally posted by PosTMOd
U of T grades mainly using multiple choice tests.

i'm going into 4th year, took courses in MAT, CSC, ECO, PHL, ENG, STA.... and never had a single multiple choice exam. Maybe a small section of an exam (10-15 points) but not an entire exam.

And besides, all profs are supposed to have an average of 60-65 in their courses, so it doesnt matter what method of examination they would choose, they would always make sure they get that average. i.e. if the class has a high average before the final, the prof will give you a killer exam, and would adjust the averages later using the bell curve distribution.

 

[Sukebe Jiji]

Originally posted by Nub!
Wasn't there some thing against Harvard's marking techniques?

The pressure for professors to grade everything higher than it should have been due to funding and keeping their clientel?

(So they'd give you an A on a paper, because your daddy is rich and want to keep you there paying them money)

The pressure for them to give students good grades does not necessarily come from wealthy students...a lot of students at these schools are on financial aid or government loan programs.

Most of the pressure actually comes from the application process for getting into graduate schools. In the US your marks in university have a significant baring on your chances of being accepted to a top rank grad school. So you have an issue with Harvard students feeling victimized by being in such elite company. If a student pulls straight 'A's at Buttfuck U, while a Harvard student only has 'B' average due to the intense compition, it is to the Harvard students disadvantage to be at Harvard.

I hope I explained this clearly...I have to run to work now.


oh and I have some questions:

1 - How big are classes on average at U of T?

and this is for Air-bag

2- When you said only 20% of your class graduates..do you mean the other 80% drops out and goes home never to return or, do you mean drop out of your major???

 

[PosTMOd]

Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji
1 - How big are classes on average at U of T?

I was in sciences (not comp sci ) and most of my classses were minimum 300 people.

I had a few that filled convocation hall... 800 or so students.

I had 3 classes under 100 students.

And 90% of my tests were multiple choice.

 

[air-bag]

Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji
When you said only 20% of your class graduates..do you mean the other 80% drops out and goes home never to return or, do you mean drop out of your major???

Drop out and go to another university/college, Switch majors, drop out of a specialist program and get a major only... all of those combined.

 

[Bass-Invader]

im at western, yr 4

leaving for my second all multiple choice exam ever(the first was the midterm for this class) right now.

its second year stats, for biology/chemistry students mostly, that i forgot to take two years ago, haha, whoops.

rest of my exams were all short/long answer + a bit of multiple choice.

 

[Bean]

Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji
1 - How big are classes on average at U of T?

That's a question that will get answers all over the place, depending on the faculty a person is in!

I graduated from the faculty of engineering at U of T.

My class size started at around 85 people in 1st year, and i graduated with about 60 or so people (rough estimate).

My largest engineering class was about 150. My smallest engineering class had 13 students. The average size of an engineering class I took was around 50.

I did not have a single engineering mid-term or final examination that was 100% multiple choice. Multiple choice comprised 10% (if that) of a final / mid term, and the majority of these exams did not at all contain multiple choice questions.

Peace,

Sabina

.:. Share what you know, learn what you don't .:.

 

[Sukebe Jiji]

Originally posted by Bean


That's a question that will get answers all over the place, depending on the faculty a person is in!

.:. Share what you know, learn what you don't .:.

haha

I realized that as soon as I posted..but really I am just curious to see a person's largest and smallest classes...and thats what I got! Good job U of T'ers!

Now do all of you think that if you had smaller class sizes perhaps it would have been easier to get/maintain high grades? For example, in the case of Postmod's experiences I think it must have been extremely difficult to maintain focus in courses of that size!!


Air-bag>> Ahh...ok..cuz at many U.S. schools students do not need to select their major until sophmore year...this enables students to 'feel out' the various programs being offered before they decide on a major...You still get students who transfer out or flunk out at schools like Harvard. In fact, just yesterday another one of my buddies failed out...but the system gives students a chance to find out and, hopefully, make an informed decision...

 

[air-bag]

When you are admitted, you are in a faculty, Arts and Science for example. After the 1st year you can choose your major/specialist programs. If you do not do so, you cannot take higher year courses.

However, most people have a clear knowledge of what they intend to take in university, and therefore they choose their 1st year courses accordingly and take the courses that are required for a degree in a certain area. Lots of those people do not end up enrolling into a major program that they intended to since they find it too difficult. However a considerable amount also finds out that they cant pull out 2nd and 3rd years and drop out of the program they have enrolled in.

 

[Ms. Fit]

for laurier's biz program, it's all about grade manipulation with the profs...usually, for the more math courses like calculus and stats they'll kick our asses on midterm and finals, and then bell the grades to the average they want. i don't think the profs want to do that but it seems they are forced to every term, i guess cuz our year is quite stupid

reading that silly little article has made me loose some respect for the ivy leagues, but not all.

 

[Ms. Fit]

Originally posted by PosTMOd



I had a few that filled convocation hall... 800 or so students.

800 people?! holy shit..i could not even imagine being in a lecture that large...wow. but i guess it has its benefits -- like when you fail a midterm and go to the prof to complain they can't say "well, melissa (they know your name), i've noticed you haven't been coming to class for the past three weeks." doh.