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Harper really doesn't want Khadr to come home

why not

TRIBE Member
I can't believe they're appealing this ruling yet again. Give it up Harper - you lost your bid to subvert human rights, move on.

http://www.thestar.com/article/686082

Ottawa to appeal Khadr ruling

Tonda maccharles Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA – Prime Minister Stephen Harper is going to the Supreme Court of Canada in a final bid to allow the prosecution of Omar Khadr to proceed in the United States.

The Conservative government announced it will seek leave to appeal a Federal Court of Appeal decision earlier this month that ordered Harper to seek the return of the 22-year-old Khadr. In the meantime, the government is asking the high court to delay - or stay - the repatriation order, pending the outcome of any appeal.

Khadr is the only Westerner still jailed in Guantanamo, where he faces charges related to the death of a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan in 2002.

In a statement released today, a spokesperson for Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said the decision to seek a hearing at the country's top court comes "after careful consideration of the legal merits of the ruling from the Canadian Federal Court of Appeal."

The statement reiterated what it said has been Canada's longstanding position, and the "same policy held by two previous governments."

"Omar Khadr has been accused of serious crimes (including murder, attempted murder, conspiracy, material support for terrorism and spying, all in violation of the laws of war)."

The release underlined that despite a decision by the Obama administration to close Guantanamo and to evaluate each case, "President Obama has not communicated any decision to the Government of Canada with respect to the case of Mr. Khadr."

"It is in our interest to wait for the outcome of these decisions just put forward by President Obama. The Government of Canada has taken its responsibilities with regards to Mr. Khadr, and we will also take our responsibilities when the US Government shares its decision on this case."

Catherine Loubier, communications director for Cannon, said Canada continues to "closely monitor" the work of the American committee studying what should happen to the remaining Guantanamo detainees, including Khadr.

She said consular officials continue to carry out "welfare visits with Mr. Khadr." Loubier added,"we will not speculate on hypothetical scenarios."

The federal government contests the conclusion of two appeals judges earlier this month that Canada violated Khadr's rights and the principles of fundamental justice.

A dissenting federal appeal judge had sided with the government, saying Ottawa had met its duty to protect a Canadian citizen by trying to provide consular access, to secure special treatment based on Khadr's young age, and to ensure his legal rights were respected.

The U.S. has just released another young detainee, Mohammed Jawad, from the Guantanamo detention cells to his native Afghanistan.

Jawad allegedly threw a grenade that wounded two American soldiers and their interpreter in December 2002. Jawad's age was uncertain, as he was born in a Pakistani refugee camp where there are no records of his birth. He said he was about 12 when arrested in December 2002, but the Pentagon said a bone scan showed him about 17.

In Khadr's case, his advocates have long argued he was a child soldier, aged 15 at the time of his arrest.

Harper's government resists those arguments, and argues instead that Khadr must face "serious charges" in the U.S. military justice system.

Last year, the Supreme Court of Canada ordered the disclosure of records to Khadr's lawyer that were the result of CSIS and Foreign Affairs interviews with Khadr while in Guantanamo in 2003 and 2004, information which was passed onto U.S. authorities.
 

diablo

TRIBE Member
Apart from a very vocal group of supporters, I don't think most people would mind if Khadr languished until he was 95/dead.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
I don't think that "vocal group" is particularly small, but Harper is playing to his base with the same smoke and mirrors "get tough on crime"/terrorism that he rode into the last election. Sure, it is probably further eroding relations the international community and the U.S., but he might be able to pick up a few more votes.
 

Colm

TRIBE Member
I've brought this issue up with my friends and family - who represent together pretty much every level of political interest and aspect of political association you'll find in Canada - and no one cares. At all. I find it worrying. Even if Khadr is a reprehensible, muderous little shit, he's a Canadian citizen and should be handled and tried by our legal system.
 
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acheron

TRIBE Member
I think he deserves a fair trial and given that he's a Canadian citizen, he deserves to be tried fairly, with any of the advantages being a Canadian citizen should give him. He won't get that while he sits in the quasi-legal guantanamo jail.
 
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acheron

TRIBE Member
someone remind me why he's not in a POW camp? why is it exactly that he's not considered a prisoner of war? he's not even a high-value capture. In the deck of 52 cards, each representing high value targets in the war on terror, he's the extra card with the rules of poker on it.
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
"In February 2008, the Pentagon accidentally released documents that revealed that although Khadr was present during the firefight, there was no other evidence that he had thrown the grenade. In fact, military officials had originally reported that another of the surviving militants had thrown the grenade just before being killed."

Considering he was brought in by Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld's army why not give him a real trial? Let the Americans present their evidence.
 

why not

TRIBE Member
Apart from a very vocal group of supporters, I don't think most people would mind if Khadr languished until he was 95/dead.
i think you should talk to more people. everyone i know is furious, and i'm not talking about activist types at all.
 
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swenard

TRIBE Member
Do you REALLY know people that are FURIOUS over a terrorist not coming back to Canada?

I have a hard time believing there are non-activist people that are Furious over that.

If they get furious over that, what do they when someone cuts them off or brushes past on the subway? Do they pull out a gat and start blasting? Stab someone in the eye with a #2 pencil?
 

peko

TRIBE Member
I don't think that "vocal group" is particularly small, but Harper is playing to his base with the same smoke and mirrors "get tough on crime"/terrorism that he rode into the last election. Sure, it is probably further eroding relations the international community and the U.S., but he might be able to pick up a few more votes.
Alexandre Trudeau emphasizes Khadr case as an election issue

Last Updated: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 | 9:54 AM ET

The Canadian Press


Alexandre Trudeau understands Canadian voters are worried about the economy, but says they should be equally concerned about the plight of Omar Khadr.

Trudeau, a filmmaker and journalist, and one of the sons of the late prime minister Pierre Trudeau, was among a small crowd of supporters for Khadr who gathered in a downtown Montreal square Monday as part of nationwide efforts to make Khadr's detention by U.S. authorities an issue in the Oct. 14 federal election.

Trudeau acknowledged after a speech that it could be a tough sell given the current turmoil on international stock markets.

"This is why I salute those who come here on a cold afternoon and stand up for things more important than our mortgage or our wallets – which are important issues and, of course, Canadians should be concerned about that.

"But without justice, what do our consumer freedoms matter anyhow?"
Trudeau blasts Canada for Khadr case

Khadr, 22, has been held for six years in the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay.

The Toronto-born man, who was 15 when he was initially detained, is charged with tossing a hand grenade that killed a U.S. soldier during a 2002 firefight at an al-Qaeda compound in Afghanistan.

Trudeau had harsh words in an interview for the Canadian government's handling of the case, saying it has been beset by "confusion, shame, weakness."

He agreed with another speaker at the rally that a subtle form of racism also played a part.

"It's racism being used as a tool to achieve strategic ends, racism being used as a tool to justify our occupation of certain countries, Afghanistan included. Racism is a form of fear."
Trudeau fears U.S. will resolve Khadr case

Although a similar rally on Sunday in Toronto carried a message criticizing Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Trudeau didn't limit his fire to the Conservatives.

"This has been endemic to our governments for 10 years now and there's guilt in all parties I'm sure, those who've held power at least."

Trudeau said he fears that in the end, the situation will be resolved by an American president rather than because of any efforts by the Canadian government. That's not good enough, he insisted.

"The world has to know that you do not treat Canadian citizens this way," said Trudeau, who is a filmmaker.

"You cannot treat Canadian citizens, a minor as well as that, in such a horrific way. How can our supposed best friend and biggest trading partner do this to one of our own?"
Canada can redeem its tarnished image: Amnesty International

Beatrice Vaugrante, an Amnesty International spokeswoman, said the human-rights organization is part of a large coalition calling for Khadr to be returned to Canada and noted that more than 50,000 Canadians have signed petitions supporting his return.

She said it's important for the Canadian government to show leadership on the issue because the country's record of support for human rights is being tarnished.

"It's very damaging to Canada in the long term," said Vaugrante.
A Federal Court judge ruled in May that Khadr's treatment by U.S. authorities violated international law against torture.
Lawyers for Khadr have also filed a lawsuit against the federal government to force Harper to demand Khadr's repatriation.

Trudeau's brother Justin is a star Liberal candidate hoping to take back Montreal-area Papineau riding from the Bloc Québécois on Oct. 14.
Alexandre Trudeau said he expects his elder brother will address Khadr's case if he's elected. "He'll definitely have a hard time at the dinner table if he doesn't."

© The Canadian Press, 2008
at least Omar has one pretty powerful supporter!

numbers or size isn't everything just like kahunas.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Do you REALLY know people that are FURIOUS over a terrorist not coming back to Canada??
I know many and they are certainly not activist types. They are however, the type to consider international law and the obligation we have to advocate for our young and vulnerable citizens.
 

why not

TRIBE Member
Do you REALLY know people that are FURIOUS over a terrorist not coming back to Canada?

I have a hard time believing there are non-activist people that are Furious over that.

If they get furious over that, what do they when someone cuts them off or brushes past on the subway? Do they pull out a gat and start blasting? Stab someone in the eye with a #2 pencil?

to be fair, i don't think i know anyone who reads the Toronto Sun and takes it seriously, so perhaps you have a different perception of 'normal'.
 
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swenard

TRIBE Member
to be fair, i don't think i know anyone who reads the Toronto Sun and takes it seriously, so perhaps you have a different perception of 'normal'.

What does the Toronto Sun have to do with getting furious over an alleged terrorist being tried in another country?


PS. My Grandma likes lettuce.
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
Regardless whether he's guilty or not, we should have brought him home.

Every other country has managed to bring their citizens home.

The kid was 15 when all this happened. 15! He shouldn't be in a US Jail.

Don't get me wrong, I have no love for him or his terrorist sympathizing family but Canada should have done the right thing and got him out of Guantanamo.
 
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diablo

TRIBE Member
I don't think that "vocal group" is particularly small, but Harper is playing to his base with the same smoke and mirrors "get tough on crime"/terrorism that he rode into the last election. Sure, it is probably further eroding relations the international community and the U.S., but he might be able to pick up a few more votes.
I don't think it's really about playing to his base. I think that the - dare I say it - silent majority doesn't give 3/8 of a fuck about Omar Khadr, and therefore the majority of people (or their elected representatives) are in no great hurry to bust their asses to bring him home so that he can go on the dole with the rest of his disgusting, hateful family.


I've brought this issue up with my friends and family - who represent together pretty much every level of political interest and aspect of political association you'll find in Canada - and no one cares. At all. I find it worrying. Even if Khadr is a reprehensible, muderous little shit, he's a Canadian citizen and should be handled and tried by our legal system.
Why should he be tried by our legal system for crimes (whether you classify his actions as such or not) that took place outside of Canada? Fair play to go with the child soldier angle, but the he's-a-Canadian-so-he-should-be-tried-in-Canada line of reasoning makes no sense at all.
 

acheron

TRIBE Member
Even so, he doesn't deserve to be kept in some kind of legal no-man's land where the US believes their laws as well as those of the international community do not apply. He deserves a FAIR TRIAL, either on US or Canadian soil, with every democratic right a Canadian citizen must be afforded. My point about the west supposedly going into Iraq/Afghanistan to install democracy, leads to the very important question of why the US refuses to follow their own standards for legal representation and fair trials. Bullshit the rules don't apply to suspected terrorists. Absolute bullshit. If the intent is to prove to the world that western-style democracy works, then show the world by convicting people by those standards. If he's as bad as they say he is, if he did what they claim he did, then they should prove it in open court, or let him disprove it with proper legal representation.
 

Hi i'm God

TRIBE Member
Good grief this bugs me.

But if they can't even get a Canadian woman who wasn't in jail, with a valid passport, back in the country Khadar doesn't have a chance in hell.
 

Colm

TRIBE Member
I
Why should he be tried by our legal system for crimes (whether you classify his actions as such or not) that took place outside of Canada? Fair play to go with the child soldier angle, but the he's-a-Canadian-so-he-should-be-tried-in-Canada line of reasoning makes no sense at all.
Huh? It makes more sense to try him here than to keep him locked awaying in American 'prison', awaiting trial by a judiciary that, from my perspective, hasn't felt it necessary to respect his rights, as an alleged child soldier or as a prisoner of war.

Is he even considered a POW, or is has he been tagged with wonderfully nebulous 'terror suspect' label?
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
The main thing is Harper carrying the water of the Americans on this.

Thats why this annoys me more than anything else to be honest.

Taking him out of the American system is a tacit admission that the system there is f*cked, which is why he won't do it. And if Canadian officials/investigators find the original case was a house of cards, that's not good for us OR them.

Its image-conscious politics instead of justice-conscious politics and thats why this sucks.
 
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