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Gst

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
so how much is the 1% cut going to effect the government's pocketbook per year?

i would guess significantly..

how much will it effect the average person's pocketbook? saving 1% on maybe 70% of your purchases, so perhaps $200 per year or so?


Harper's an idiot.. either that, or Canadians are idiots if this actually wins him any support.
 
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man_slut

TRIBE Member
What's the deal with GST being lowered but income tax being higher for lower income families? Is that correct? I thought I heard a Liberal or NDP Mp say that on CBC radio on my way home from work yesterday.
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
they raised the exemption, so its placing more people under the minimum income that can be taxed, though this is usually adjusted every few years, not much of a unique move by the cons.

yeah gst is no big deal to me, frankly i dont see why people get excited or upset over it.

any time you cut taxes 1 side goes nuts, though any saving garnered from these cuts are more than offset by higher energy prices and for ontarians: the health premium.

so the ndp and libs will do what they do: declare the nation to be ready to collapse due to the recent con budget, while the cons will declare they have saved the middle class w/ their cuts.

both are pretty gay. they are awash in money, especially from the commodity boom, hope they use it wisely.
 

octo

TRIBE Member
all those "tax cuts" and "tax credits" are meant to fool the average Sun reading dumbass into thinking the government is putting extra money in their pockets. the reality is the amount of extra money is very minimal. there was a chart in the Star yesterday that broke down how much money a parent would get from the $1200 child tax credit. a single mom making 30k/year (who is the most in need of child care) would only get to keep around $400. meanwhile a two parent family with only one parent working that makes 200K+/year gets to keep over $1000.
anyway i don't know if that's how it panned out in the budget i haven't read anything on what happened yesterday.
 
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Gizmo

TRIBE Member
Actually, my bad, the GST cut will come into effect in about 2-3 months. The others later on.

In terms of the budget, I wouldn't say it's crap. The Liberals would have done something similar in their position. Debt repayment will go up, speeding up fiscal repair. At the rates stated in the budget, Canada's deficit as a % of GDP would be 1.5% by the end of 2007. Which would be the healthiest of all the G8. Of the 26 billion they're forecasting in tax savings, about 21 billion of it will be to individual Canadians. So thats not bad. The elimination of the large corporation capital tax and the set up of the Apprenticeship Job Creation Credit should be a positive for Eastern Canada as it was specifically tailored to encourage development there.

Overall I thought it was a relatively good budget. And I voted liberal.

the part that is potentially shaky is in some of their assumptions in revenue growth. Personal income tax receipts from 05 to 06 grew almost 2x that of personal income, and the Cons estimated this growth will continue. Which is potentially open for debate...as a stronger C$ will affect demand from the US, which is still Canada's largest trading partner. So you could argue that the part of the budget there is a bit too optimistic.
 

Lurker

TRIBE Member
The thing that got me was the fat numbers dangled infront of Joe public. $80 transit pass credit (but only 15% of that or something), eployment credit (if you work, you get a $1000 tax credit...15% of that to be exact) etc ad nauseum.

I know the Libs have been guilty of throwing out curves like this to entice voters, but I thought this government was to be more open and accountable? *barf*

Overall the whole deal won't affect me a whole helluva lot. It's the shady little things that bother me.

We'll see how it goes I guess.
 

octo

TRIBE Member
you'd think with a $10billion surplus a gov'nt could deliver something major. all these tax credits are fluff. they're just going to make doing taxes a bigger pain in the ass.

considering the libs kept getting accused of lacking focus, this budget is just al ot of fluff spread out all over the place. i guess it's a minority budget.

i think it's pretty fucking rude to cut that $5 billion agreement with the natives. it's so fucking easy cause natives don't have any political clout. i saw Flaherty on CBC take a question on this and the way the words came out of his mouth it could have been paraphrased "well we're still giving natives a lot of our tax money" it sounded pretty demeaning.
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
octo said:
you'd think with a $10billion surplus a gov'nt could deliver something major.
yeah, like health care.


keep taxes as they are, and fix shit that needs fixing. those billions of dollars could do a heck of a lot of good, whereas the miniscule savings that trickle to us will likely be blown at tim hortons, or lie dormant in the bottom of a piggybank.
 
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Sleepy Giant

TRIBE Member
Why they would cut the only tax paid by tourists and visitors to Canada is beyond me. How many people actually bothered to fill those forms out at customs in order to get their gst back?

If you want to stimulate the economy/put money back in people's pockets, you cut income taxes not sales taxes. It has been proven over and over again.
 

atbell

TRIBE Member
If you want to chart what seems to work, look at economic performance in the years following the completion of large scale infrastructure projects. The interstate creation in the US preceded a decades long boom in the country.

I don't think that there is one instance where tax cuts, no matter the size or where they are cut from, have promoted anything more then a short term increase in consumption.

Think how much people would save in Toronto alone if the money was used to make the tap water drinkable again? The money saved on bottled water spending would be a much greater stimulus to the economy then some miserable 200$ tax cut. Not to mention the savings in terms of waste disposal costs for all the water bottles out there. And then there is the energy cost of bottling and then transporting the water in trucks. Water's heavy, it takes a lot of gas to fuel the trucks that cart it around just because we have let our clean water system fall apart.

I'm sure there are many more examples of places that money could be better applied to induce economic gains.
 

Colm

TRIBE Member
It requires more balls than any minority government has to develop infrastructure. The tax cuts are good PR, for perhaps no other reason than their expediency; revitalizing our water purification system however, is not so easy to sell to the public.

Imagine, Joe Conservative & Harry Liberal announces a bi-partisan plan to use the budget surplus to fix Montreal's, Vancouver's, and Toronto's drinking water system. Right off the bat you would have people screaming that it should go into healthcare since safe and clean drinking water is readily available for purchase in any store. So then Joe & Harry announce their intention to invest the money into healthcare, specifically to fix the major metropolitan hospitals which service the most people. Immediately you would have people screaming that it should into repairing our water purification systems since safe and clean healthcare is readily available for purchase in Alberta.


.... sorry, work's a bit slow.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
atbell said:
If you want to chart what seems to work, look at economic performance in the years following the completion of large scale infrastructure projects. The interstate creation in the US preceded a decades long boom in the country.

Actually the USA was awash in gold reserves after WWII and its currency was hedged upon it. If you however look at make work infrastructure projects previous to WWII like the ones intended to end the great depression you in fact see the exact opposite effect.


Think how much people would save in Toronto alone if the money was used to make the tap water drinkable again?

Actually the water is fantastic in Toronto the fact that people are sheep and blow money on bottled water from nearby regions with exactly the same contamination issues is a matter of marketing and human folly. If instead we didn't blow more money on something that works perfectly fine and ignore the consumer stupidity we could instead pay off the debts caused by projects from the 60's we still haven't paid off.

I'm big on building up infrastructure however there has to be economic need or it begins to deteriorate before it has even begun to pay for itself. There also has to be a reasonable need for it, building a 4 lane divided highway from Toronto to the northern reaches would create plenty of temporary work however it would have almost no economic benefits.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Colm said:
It requires more balls than any minority government has to develop infrastructure. The tax cuts are good PR, for perhaps no other reason than their expediency; revitalizing our water purification system however, is not so easy to sell to the public.

Imagine, Joe Conservative & Harry Liberal announces a bi-partisan plan to use the budget surplus to fix Montreal's, Vancouver's, and Toronto's drinking water system. Right off the bat you would have people screaming that it should go into healthcare since safe and clean drinking water is readily available for purchase in any store.


Its safely availible from your god damn taps and we have records to prove it. Montreal and Toronto have issues with older pipe networks that are in the process of being upgraded but water is simply not an issue worth spending large amounts on in any of our major cities. The worst water is actuall in smaller communities that are mainly well fed.

What do you suggest we spend money building. WE really don't have justification for high speed rail between anywhere but Tornto and Montreal. toronto needs some subway and rail work but its very localized and will not require large scale employment to accomplish. Our highway system is really only in dire trouble is a few highly populated regions.

Why should people in Alberta pay for highways in Toronto? or for that matter water pipes in Montreal where the city simply didn't invest a penny in there system for 30 years while in rotted away.

People scream for infrastructure but they don't realize that its becoming a much lower labour thing that doesn't take all that long. the economic spin offs aren't that great.
 
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janiecakes

TRIBE Member
atbell said:
Think how much people would save in Toronto alone if the money was used to make the tap water drinkable again? ...we have let our clean water system fall apart.

huh?

tap water in toronto is perfectly safe for drinking. samples are taken every 4 hours for testing.

but this has nothing to do with GST so i'll shush.
 

atbell

TRIBE Member
^^^
I know of people who have complained about the water. I never had a problem myself.

I meant to use the water as more of an example of ways in which careful use of infrastructure investment could be used to create sustainable growth.

I agree with Ditto on the point that the amount of labour associated with construction is less then it used to be but I think that good projects have lasting benefits and the economic spin off can be (project dependent) quite large. This is especially true with investments that will last many years.

Another subway line might be a good example. Toronto could really use another east/west line along with connections to the air port and York. Not only would the line have a one off labour creation benefit but it would open up new jobs in maintenance and operation for years in the future. Not to mention benefits gained by allowing low income people more mobility and decreasing dependence on fossil fuels.

Again, this is more exemplary then practical.

I do like the idea of cutting the debt too. I tend to feel interest payments represent way to much lost money.

It all gets back to the idea that we should not be cutting taxes simply because we are doing well. It's to hard to raise the tax rate and far to unpopular. We should be using what we have when we can. Few governing organizations have the luxury of having a surplus, why is Harper so eager to get rid of it?
 

litespeed

Well-Known TRIBEr
i was just reading this on the star's website... some readers opinions on the gst cut

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...l_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News

there are some stupid fucking people in this country who really have no idea what taxes are for. my favorite response was that they should scrap the gst all together so that gas will be cheaper... fucking dumbass. go back to north bay you worthless piece of white trash... probably another one of these idiots that thinks the extra $20 a week for each kid will be better then actual significant funding for daycare spaces.. probably going to spend the money on a 12 of lucky lager and pack of players anyways.

i for one am fine with paying taxes.. and was fine with spending that extra $10 on every thousand... as long as the funds are being allocated in a responsible manner and overall improving the quality of life for Canadians.. i say go for it... i can live without a few hundred extra bucks per year.
 

TrIbAlNuT

TRIBE Member
its all smoke and mirrors, all these tax "cuts" are being applied to the current tax rate, therefore the $1000 workers tax exemption is still only a
$120. The mass transit pass exemption workers out to be around $14 for most people. Still its better than noting!!

Totally agree with spending money on the military and mandatory sentences.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
atbell said:
Again, this is more exemplary then practical.


Thats kind of the problem, see unfortunately when we deal in taxation and spending policy we deal only in practical. Its great to dream but if you can't measure it or crunch it you have finished the homework and your idea isn't ready for the prime time.

Currently construction companies are bitching that they don't have enough skilled labour. So rather than have them working on private commercial interests your suggesting we should use them on a government project increasing the cost of labour during a period of economic good times.

to me this is entirely backwards. You blow money on infrastructure during recessions and economic downturns, you save an pay debts while your in a surplus and things are going fairly well.


thestar.com said:
As a small business owner who will have to re-tool very many aspects of my business in order to accommodate this cut and maybe another one next year, I will have a lot less money to spend on both business and personal purchases.
Wendy Priesnitz, Toronto

LOL!!!! I hadn't even thought how much money it will actually cost to drop the GST 1/7th of its value (as an aside the GST is going from %7 to %6 this is not a %1 decrease this is a %15 decrease).

Building a subway in Toronto will benefit 300,000 - 500,000 Canadians almost all in the GTA. Really I would rather see changes that effect a larger more diverse area of interest, Toronto has a subway! lets start looking at cities that don't and don't have anywhere near the transit system already.

Lets get the Toronto subway system up to the point where it isn't bleeding money before we start major investments less we end up with another make work project like the usless pointless sheppard line that we spent how many billions on that could have gone into something usefull.

Toronto's transit system is in the shape its in because of a complete lack of planning and poor decsisons I don't believe the people of manitoba should have to pay to fix it.
 
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judge wopner

TRIBE Member
subways:

its a tough point, how much should the city, teh provence and the feds devote to mass transit in a city like toronto that see's many people from outside the 416 use their transit systems and roads/bridges every day?

its easy to say "why should a guy in alberta pay for a subway in toronto" but thats foolish considering so much of our federal taxes are pooled to serve the entire nation. its like saying why should a guy in toronto pay taxes to help some old lady on to hip replacement in nunavut....

toronto has horrible traffic problems, the more time wasted in traffic means more smog and less productivity. our suburbs are exploding, traffic will only get worse without a cohesive mass transit system GTA wide.

face facts what happens in the biggest city in the country should be an issue for people acorss the country because so much economic activity flows through here.

so suck it up alberta, you are gonna help us get that eglington west line!!!yeah!!!
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
ev said:
... fucking dumbass. go back to north bay you worthless piece of white trash... /QUOTE]



Only 1/5 Canadians have access to public transit, thus cars are there main means of getting to work, transporting kids, groceries you name it. If we're going to increase fuel expenses by %30 we're going to have a strong negative effect on on the economy while creating a cash cow for the public taxes.

I'd like to see a flat fuel tax based on litre and not based on the final sale price. Thus the fuel tax per litre would be stable and represent the same amount regardless of the price of fuel. Right now we have double dipping, the gas companies have upped the price so the government has upped the amount of taxes they collect per litre which is clearly un-necessary.

Reducing fuel taxes would be an effective way to get consumers to spend more money on commercial goods and services rather than sending it all to a few select gas companies (which our government also has a share in)
 

man_slut

TRIBE Member
docta seuss said:
yeah, like health care.


keep taxes as they are, and fix shit that needs fixing. those billions of dollars could do a heck of a lot of good, whereas the miniscule savings that trickle to us will likely be blown at tim hortons, or lie dormant in the bottom of a piggybank.

This is my impresion of the budget. What's up with the $1200/year for parenst? They are taxing these funds as well! From what I've been told. So how will $100/month help to pay for affordable child care? I just don't get it... It seems like a bunch of rich white people who are totally cut off from the real world.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
1/3 of all income tax already goes to health care, take your totaly tax bill for the last year divide by 3 and decide how mush more you think you should be paying. For me Healthcare came pretty close to rent for largest expences and I didn't visit a doctor.
 
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