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God bless 9/11?

MoFo

TRIBE Member
This thread will be a great topper after my exam tomorrow on corporate culture, hegemony and media activism.

I wanted to hear some opinions on the "support America to rise from the ashes of 9/11 by being a consumer."

I think it's disgusting. And this war (and the events before it) have done absolutely nothing for the Western world. So far the goals of America to survive are:

- to promote obesity (Americans deserve to eat more! Who cares about the 35, 615 children who die a day of hunger? <-- according to UN Fod and Agriculture Org.)
- to continue cheap third world-labour (they'll thank us later for giving them jobs!)
- to encourage Eurocentrism and racism induced by the ruling class' creation of The Enemy (ie. ethnics, specifically Middle Eastern people)
- to spread fear, aided by political propaganda and CNN's corporate controlled programming
- to lock up, punish or kill anyone who is anti-America (ie. anti-capitalism, peaceful protesters)

I'm just sort of sickened by the aftereffects of 9/11. It seems America took the terrorrism not as a wakeup call to change but used it as an excuse to maintain the already unreachable status quo at an alarming rate.

"Imagine" by John Lennon was identified as potentially "insensitive" by Clear Channel Radio Programmers in the week following 9/11. If Lennon's watching, he'd be spinning in his grave.

In Nike we trust.

Thoughts?
 

xtollo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by MoFo
It seems America took the terrorrism not as a wakeup call to change but used it as an excuse to maintain the already unreachable status quo at an alarming rate.
I totally agree. Nobody questions there poltical power (well even moreso) since 9/11. It's like "Uh, ya well remember 9 months when the shit hit the fan, well it's payback!". As bitter as I am with the Americans, it's still not half as newsworthy as the bullshit currently going on in the middle east. What a mess.
 

teknikal

TRIBE Member
OK, I'm going to take a shot at these even though everyone will probably jump down my throat:

Originally posted by MoFo
- to continue cheap third world-labour (they'll thank us later for giving them jobs!)
I don't know how true this is, but in my business ethics class this year, we learned there are a lot of facts about cheap third-world labour i.e. sweatshops that most people don't hear about.

My prof. was saying that in he had found out that in at least some places, the people working in sweatshops are better off than people working in regular jobs in the country. it's all relative. like 52 cents an hour to us is a horrid thought, but compared to the average wages there, it might be a lot more.

for instance, some sweatshop workers in china make more than the professors there!

as well, a lot of time, the workers get angry when people try to "help" them by shutting down the sweatshops, because then they have no jobs at all.

while i was at that lecture, i sure was shocked, and interested in hearing a different side of things other than "stop those sweatshops! evil, evil, evil!"

it's not like i'm now going to move down to the U.S., and start my own corporate american company with sweatshops, but it's just a thought.

teknikal
 
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MoFo

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: God bless 9/11?

Originally posted by teknikal
OK, I'm going to take a shot at these even though everyone will probably jump down my throat:



as well, a lot of time, the workers get angry when people try to "help" them by shutting down the sweatshops, because then they have no jobs at all.

while i was at that lecture, i sure was shocked, and interested in hearing a different side of things other than "stop those sweatshops! evil, evil, evil!"


teknikal
Very true. I, too, read articles about that.
But then again, it could all stem from the hegemony that they live in.
My parents have always said, "in China, if we didn't work in slave labour jobs, we would've starved." And it's true but I'm talking about the bigger scheme. How did these countries get to such a low quality of life in the first place? How is the government (which inevitably always has US ties) maintaining this sort of life for its citizens? When I say hegemony, I mean how powers scheme to keep things the way they are because it makes the most money (only one goal in corporatism).
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
Before anyone jumps down anyone's throats, I'd like to state that no one is free of corporate culture and slave labour and blah blah blah. I just wanted to talk about this shit. Stir some debate.
 

Sukebe Jiji

TRIBE Promoter
You bring up a TON of issues in such a short post...damn...Plus I am not too sure if you are concerned with 9/11 or with America's Cultural Imperialism in general? It is late so I will try to give my opinion on a couple before I go to bed.

First of all forgive me for not being up-to-date with the aforementioned "goals of America", but I have, somewhat, experienced the rebuilding project being undertaken in NYC. I think rhetorically media outlets are using "rebuild America" rather than "rebuild NYC" just to encourage inter-state monetary contributions, which are no doubt probably already starting to lag. The affect of 9/11 on NYC's economy was not felt just on that one day in which those planes flew into the economic pulse of the Western world, but in fact reprucusions are still being felt throughout the five burroughs. First of all, the value of the real estate in that area has plumetted. Companies no longer want to be situated in NYC and are beginning to look elsewhere to set up their headquarters. Second of all, the city has still not regained its previous "lust for life" after the event. On week-ends the streets, bars and clubs are not as packed as they used to be - the end result is that bars, clubs and restaurants are going out of business at a record pace. Ironically however is that soul food and comfort food restaurants are doing quite well - perhaps a reflection of a desire for comfort? Thirdly, there is the very real cost of removing the rubble and destruction of what were the World Trade Towers. In short NYC is in a big financial crisis. Mike Bloomberg is even talking about having to lay off NYPD to keep the ship afloat so to speak. NYC needs people to resume their regular daily lives, and spending habits.

The other issue you mention is the spreading of "fear" by CNN. Well, the US government is constantly placed in a lose-lose situation with this question. For example, should the US government keep everything a secret from the public, or should it divulge all possible threats to the public safety? If it keeps possible terrorist attacks secret then people charge the government with witholding valuable information. On the flipside of course if the government has full disclosure on terrorist threats then they are referred to as "spreading fear".

The charge of Eurocentrism against the US I would have certainly agreed with a week and a half ago....but after the US sided with the PLO against the Israeli offensive in ordering a cease fire I have to disagree. Whether or not this was simply a media ploy to trick people like me...well, that is always a possibility too. In America however there has been no mention of starting racial profiling domestically so, maybe I am being an optomist, I feel there is a genuine desire to simply remove the threat of terrorism from the world.

And no matter how critical anyone in the world is of America, there will ALWAYS be a group in America that surpasses it...and these people, even after 9/11 were allowed to openly express their opinions...at least where I was.

Anyways, I hope this is kind of on the tangent that you wanted..and if not, well, I guess I just wasted a lot of time....hahaha
 
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xtollo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji
I feel there is a genuine desire to simply remove the threat of terrorism from the world.
For sure, so that people can get back to what is important. Eating at McDonalds, wearing Nike shoes and checking out the new Steven Spielberg movie. :rolleyes:
 

Sukebe Jiji

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by MBoy
Nothing good came of September 11th.

Nothing.
word. no one would ever dare argue against that (I hope).

But one can hope that this tragedy might provide the world an impetus to finally put an end to terrorism.
 

Sukebe Jiji

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by xtollo

For sure, so that people can get back to what is important. Eating at McDonalds, wearing Nike shoes and checking out the new Steven Spielberg movie. :rolleyes:
Or even eating at Nobu, wearing hemp sandals and checking out the newest release by Wang Kar-Wei downtown.

Basically, living one's life free from fear...however that person wants to live it.
 

xtollo

TRIBE Member
I think you saw the point I was trying to make. I'm sure the Americans mean well, but it's probably just so they can continue their graps on the worlds economy.

When people are happy, they buy. I also see your point though, I just can't get past the inherent greed possessed by the U.S of A.
 
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MoFo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji


The other issue you mention is the spreading of "fear" by CNN. Well, the US government is constantly placed in a lose-lose situation with this question. For example, should the US government keep everything a secret from the public, or should it divulge all possible threats to the public safety? If it keeps possible terrorist attacks secret then people charge the government with witholding valuable information. On the flipside of course if the government has full disclosure on terrorist threats then they are referred to as "spreading fear".

I'm not talking about documentation and reportage. I'm talking about how these networks (owned by people with linkages to the government) are creating an enemy for the public to fear instead of contextualizing where terrorism fits in the scheme of American life. I really don't think a lot of people actually think of WHY it happened in the first place because some of the answers are so autonomous. Which in turn, would cause public/consumer confusion.

My opinion is that they are manufacturing an enemy in the same way video games create an enemy for the player (particularly the younger player) to "hate." The fact that it's being broadcasted on a HUGE media powerhouse such as CNN is part of the political propaganda. "The medium is the message" was USED to its fullest after the attacks.
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji


word. no one would ever dare argue against that (I hope).

But one can hope that this tragedy might provide the world an impetus to finally put an end to terrorism.
But do we have to end terrorism or do we have to end rampant consumerism & corporate rule? Which one is the real enemy here?
 

MBoy

TRIBE Member
Can't two bad things both be enemies at the same time? It's not like one's real and the other isn't.
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji


Or even eating at Nobu, wearing hemp sandals and checking out the newest release by Wang Kar-Wei downtown.

Basically, living one's life free from fear...however that person wants to live it.
I agree with that to a certain extent. The freedom of choice is essentially the "choice" of what products we want to buy. And it's a great freedom. A Western freedom.

But a shitload of people in the world are NOT happy and have no choice. And they're fucking angry. And they're gonna destroy what's hindering their "freedom." I was wondering if Americans really saw that.
 
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Sukebe Jiji

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by xtollo
I think you saw the point I was trying to make. I'm sure the Americans mean well, but it's probably just so they can continue their graps on the worlds economy.

When people are happy, they buy. I also see your point though, I just can't get past the inherent greed possessed by the U.S of A.
hahaha I did I did...I just chose to ignore it and be a smart ass :)

I could write another long essay about the issues of multi-nationals etc etc..but I am getting tired...

but what I will say is that don't paint all American corporations with the same brush. There certainly are predatorial companies out there, but likewise there are American companies with a very strong moral conscience - not to mention loads upon loads of watchdog groups - they just don't get the same media attention.


oh! and I am curious:

what do you guys think should become of the World Trade Centre site?
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
As I mentioned above (but didn't elaborate), radio programmers deemed this song as officially offensive to the "War on Terrorism."
I read it over again (even though I've been singing it in the shower for years) and it startled me. It scared me because it was SO OPPOSITIONAL to Corporate America's agenda right now.

Imagine by
John Lennon

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...


You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...


You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one"
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Sukebe Jiji




but what I will say is that don't paint all American corporations with the same brush. There certainly are predatorial companies out there, but likewise there are American companies with a very strong moral conscience - not to mention loads upon loads of watchdog groups - they just don't get the same media attention.

I agree with this as well. There IS actual good. It does and is allowed to exist. There are corporations who not into maintaining an ideology.
 

Sukebe Jiji

TRIBE Promoter
Ahhhhh..too many good points! hahahaha

Damn, doesn't anyone sleep anymore?!?!?

I cannot give your points the attention they deserve at the moment so I won't bother posting a half asses response...I just wanted to acknowledge them before I go to bed. :)

oh! I just wanted to get this point out of the way as well...I am not American hahaha...

sorry for peacing out early on you all!
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
^^^
No worries. Nothing we can say on here will match a cultural reference from the Simpsons.



*sigh*
So satisfying, isn't it?
 
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