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Give it up for your Toronto CRAPtors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by Jeremy Jive, Jan 14, 2002.

  1. Jeremy Jive

    Jeremy Jive TRIBE Member

    What the hell was yesterdays game. That was pathetic. There is something seriously wrong. They are even getting slagged on their own NBA website.


    To modify the children's saying, 'sticks and stones may break my bones but the Raptors could not have shot any worse with them.'

    If the home of the Indianapolis 500 wasn't already dubbed The Brickyard, then it would have been a fitting nickname for Air Canada Centre.

    Toronto shot 57.1% (12-21) in the first quarter leading to 29 points but only 25.8% (17-66) and 43 points the rest of the way.

    The Raptors bench shot 2-17 from the field.

    In the second half, Toronto only had 12 FGs, nine of them by Vince Carter.

    Three other Raptors had one field goal apiece.

    Removing Carter's 14-30 (46.7%) performance from the floor, the rest of the Raptors were 15-57 (26.3%) during the contest.

    Only one of Carter's teammates scored in double figures, Antonio Davis with 10 points, but eight of those came in the first quarter.

    The next opportunity to go out and perform and wash away the stink of this one will come Tuesday in Detroit

    jeremy -I'm fet up, discuss- jive
  2. *SiLver*RoBoT*

    *SiLver*RoBoT* TRIBE Member

    They gotta do something to shake up the team...if they wanna keep Lenny Wilkens, hire an interim Assistant that speaks his mind, since Lenny's not. They could really use someone like Oakley right now. Only one that spoke his mind on the team, but he knew how to get everyone prepared.

    Everyone is saying that this is the same team as last year...it is...minus one player - CHARLES OAKLEY.


  3. Subsonic Chronic

    Subsonic Chronic TRIBE Member

    That game was uuuuug-leh!
  4. Illogistix

    Illogistix TRIBE Member

    Fire Lenny!!!

    Simple as that - he can't cut it no more. 30 years is enuff, he had a great career. Time to move on Lenny, and give this job to a younger, hungrier coach....Like Rautins!!!
  5. CC

    CC TRIBE Member

    the team just doesn't care during the regular season. the playoff rapters will be a different story.

  6. tobywan

    tobywan TRIBE Member

    IF they make it to the playoffs, which seems highly unlikely at this point.

  7. Libradragon

    Libradragon TRIBE Promoter

    WHATEVER. take another closer look.

    As badly as they're doing right now, they're making it to the playoffs. take a look at how other teams are doing. with the exceptions of the nets and the bucks, everyone's in and around the same mark.
  8. Tonedeff

    Tonedeff TRIBE Member

    I haven't been following the raptors in the past couple of weeks, but is vince carter still the most overrated player in the league?

    okay, that's what I thought [​IMG]
  9. CC

    CC TRIBE Member

    i agree with libradragon. the rapters are lucky that they have the weakest division ever assembled. they could suck ass all the way through the playoffs and still maybe make it to the final. so sad, but true. all they need to do is to finish above .500. and they don't even seem to care about finishing high to get a better draw through the playoffs because all the teams suck. the rapters aren't worried about doing well because they know that they could when they want to.

  10. doughboy

    doughboy TRIBE Member

    The solution to the Raptors problem is simple. They are settling for jump shots and follow Vince's lead. With Vince at SG, he shoots too much from the outside and doesn't have the proper position to drive the lane. Solution.

    Move Vince Carter back to SF.

    Given their current line-up, that means Chris Childs will start at PG and Alvin Williams will start at SG.

    If they trade for a point guard, or a shooting guard, Alvin will play the opposite position.

    Personally, I feel they should get an SG who is similar in style to Ray Allen = good shooting from the outside and can take it to the hole when needed.

    Or, maybe when Mo Pete comes back they can put him at SG since he has trouble defensively against the bigger SF opponents, and has a good enough shot that he can draw out the defence.

    The game of basketball is all about the fundamentals. Unfortunately, the Raptors have forgotten about this. They need to feed the post, drive the lane, and then kick it out for the open shot. Once that gets going, they'll have confidence on the perimeter and be able to spread the defence.


    BTW, it's only going to get worse unless they adjust, because as both the Hawks and Clippers have shown, a zone defence really throws them off their game because they can't get their shots going and have even more difficulty driving to the lane.
  11. KickIT

    KickIT TRIBE Member

    The easiest way to stop a Raptor?

    Play Zone defense.

    We are awful against zone Ds.

  12. doughboy

    doughboy TRIBE Member

    ^^ That's what I said ... Boobytraps!

  13. Libradragon

    Libradragon TRIBE Promoter

    now there's a lot more to it than *they suck*.

    teams like ours, miami heat, orlando magic, philly 76ers etc etc are somewhat getting killed with the new rule re: zone defense. We've got to regroup and reevaluate our plays to work around that. We used to have shit defense until we practiced a bit on New York and we were able to get past it. Now we definitely have the talent to do it again, but whatever it is that wilkens is doing to them during practice or whatever, it's not working.
  14. juice

    juice TRIBE Member

    Man I was at the game yesterday and it was a sad state of affairs. I've never seen the crowd turn on the raptors like they did. I don't blame them they played so piss poor. I was in the club seats and ended up dividing my attention between the game in front of me and the Packer 49'ers game on TV.
  15. koz

    koz TRIBE Member

    I am sick and tired of hearing this. Not trying to bitch at you just this sentiment in general. Charles Oakley was bringing a lot more negative energy to the ball club. They would still be playing this bad even if he was on the team. They can't play zone defense and when they see people just standing there they panic and start playing like little girls.

    Also you can not fire Lenny Wilkens. Raptors organisation are already paying Butch Carter not to coach, I doubt they can afford to add another coach to that list.

    Bottom line, they are going to improve. Needed a stretch like this to keep them in check. They will make the playoffs and hopefully win the East.

    go raptors.

  16. Libradragon

    Libradragon TRIBE Promoter

    yay for koz. [​IMG]
  17. *SiLver*RoBoT*

    *SiLver*RoBoT* TRIBE Member

    I still love the Oak.


  18. dicksherwood

    dicksherwood TRIBE Member

    Wll put doughboy. I don't know if they need to get rid of Lenny, but someone please just pipe in Rautin's commentary to the Raptors bench during the game maybe then they would understand Leo's mantra "go to the basket, get to the free throw line, go to the basket, get to the free throw line, you can get a 20 foot jump shot anytime in the shot clock, go to the basket, get to the free throw line"

    I'm a b-ball phreak and I understand that of all the pro sports, ball is by far the easiest yet the raptors want to make it so hard. Vince knows it, while he settles for jumpshots too often, he still goes to the rack and scores whenever he wants, it's not that hard for those guys. And if I see AD dash-up one more fadeaway I'm gonna peak, why did he have such a great year last year? because he continuously dunked on people's heads and got to the line, that's how 6'9" 260 men play ball, fadeaways are for point guards and little guys.

    I am the biggest raptors fan anywhere but more importantly I have a true love for the game, the raptors don't play basketball, the lakers do, the kings do, the bucks do, I don't know what it is the raps are playing, maybe "chuckitandpray"? Ya know why the raps are near the top of the league in Off. Rebs.? Because they miss so many fakin' shots!!

    I'm going to the game on the 25th against the t-wolves and I'm honestly more excited to see KG and Wally world than see this pathetic (after VC and KC of course) squad Lenny is putting out there!!

  19. CC

    CC TRIBE Member

    anyone saying they don't have talent, or that they can't play against the zone defense is insane. different rapters teams show up on different nights. when they care, they win. the losses come about because of intensity and their focus on the task. they often seem like they consider the games practice scrimages, where they just practice taking different shots or moves.

    they can bring it together when they feel motivated to do so. they live and die as a team and they play better than anyone in the division when all of them want to play hard. zone defenses demand that all players be trying 100% and that will happen in the playoffs; it's just not happening in the regular season.

    rapters have more athletic ability and deapth than anyone in the east. have faith

  20. Wunderbar

    Wunderbar TRIBE Member

    For whatever reason, the Raps are unable to handle the zone. This was my biggest concern at the beginning of the year because they are a jump shooting team and rely a lot on one on one matchups. Now that Carter is being double/triple teamed and Antonio is not consistently providing 15 points/night, the raps are really stifled on offense. On top of this, they are one of the worst teams in the league in getting to the free throw line and their defense is way too inconsistent.

    I sense a real lack of effort and energy on the court and usually this is a reflection of the coach. They have had quite a few stinkers this year.

    Is it time to get rid of Lenny? I don't think so. I think he's a great person and he did take the Raps to game 7 of the eastern conference semi-final in his first year.

    Is it time to make a big trade? Hakeem has looked pretty bad so far. Antonio has had a bad year at power forward and plays much better when he switches to centre. Eric Montross can provide 10-15 minutes of solid play from the bench and I would be interested in seeing Mammadou. I don't think we need both Tracy Murray and Dell Curry.

    The guys on team who are inexpendable include:
    1) Vince Carter
    2) JYD
    3) Antonio
    4) Alvin

    I would consider packaging Keon Clark Tracy Murray and a first rounder for another serious scoring threat like an Eddie Jones.
  21. unklespins

    unklespins TRIBE Member

    The Raptors def need to do SOMETHING, a trade maybe...but honestly I'd like to see them fire Lenny Wilkens. Everyone says he is an all-time great coach cause he has so many wins...well fuck he has just as many losses.
    Against the zone, could the fact that the team coach hasn't seen a zone defense in his last 25 years or whatever of coaching. Not being able to break a zone is a reflection of poor offensive planning. Not the only cause but def relects it...
    Another thing that I hate about Lenny Wilkens, he's always just so chill about everything...I used to think Vince was going to be a great player...now I just think he's a whiny bitch. Everytime he doesn't get a call he sits and complains, he doesn't play defense, he shys away from contact (how many free throws this season??)...and Lenny just lets him do it.
    Oakley was the shittest passer of all time, but he def was a presence the Raptors needed...they should fire Lenny, hire Jeff Van Gundy, and get back Oakley. It would be sweet if they could get a Ray Allen type player, but the likelyhood of getting a good all-around player right now is low...they're more likely to get a guy that's scores a bunch but has bad attitude that no one else wants...ie Nick Van Exel...and I don't think that would be good for them either...

    Fire Lenny...Hire Van Gundy...
  22. CC

    CC TRIBE Member

    wait until playoffs you whiners.

  23. *SiLver*RoBoT*

    *SiLver*RoBoT* TRIBE Member

    You mean..if they make it to the playoffs.... [​IMG]

    I'm not whining...just tired of seeing them play good in the first quarter, and go back to their usual bad habits the rest of the game.

    I also agree with you that they have one of the most athletic benches and one of the deepest benches...

    They're just not playing to their potential...

    Hakeem's starting to look pretty good though...


  24. Gizmo

    Gizmo TRIBE Member

    He's officially under contract to the Knicks for another two years. The Raptors would have to buy out his contract and possibly fork over a pick for compensation. Then you'd have a situation where you're paying for 4 contracts - Carter, Wilkens, Gundy (Knicks) and then Gundy to coach us.

    So I don't think that would happen. Lenny is definitely here till the end of the season.
  25. Libradragon

    Libradragon TRIBE Promoter



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