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Getting the Toronto casino didn't take much lobbying at all!

alexd

Administrator
Staff member


It looks like we are going to get our Toronto casino. The treadmill of inevitability has started. Public consultations will soon happen. Formalities, formalized. Share of the take decided. Documents signed. That didn't take long.
 

The Watcher

TRIBE Member
Hey, the city needs more revenue, so let's allow a Casino to be built that we know for a fact cause poverty, misery, crime and is basically legalized theft for a crony private interest.

Bravo Mayor Ford, you are the scum of the earth.
 

agentRC4

TRIBE Member
LOL good one.

First off Paris, Montreal, NYC, London, and every other MAJOR city has not had an increase in crime or poverty linked to a casino's arrival. In a small market like Thunder Bay it sure will, but TO will not see it. There is no data to support that argument.
 

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
The choice now (according to a Toronto Star report) is whether we are going to get one or two casinos. A downtown Toronto casino and a new Woodbine casino.

Why do they even have public consultations?
 

agentRC4

TRIBE Member
I like the fact they are putting a user fees or something to that effect that can generate a good amount of money for the city.
 
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stryker

TRIBE Member
I'm not much of a gambler but I have no problem with a casino being built in the city. It'll help to raise the stature of the city, drive tourism and create jobs. People with gambling problems don't need a casino to get their fix, there are already multiple avenues for them to ruin their lives.

stew
 

erika

TRIBE Member
LOL good one.

First off Paris, Montreal, NYC, London, and every other MAJOR city has not had an increase in crime or poverty linked to a casino's arrival. In a small market like Thunder Bay it sure will, but TO will not see it. There is no data to support that argument.
To which casino in Paris are you referring? Le Casino de Paris is an entertainment venue/music hall that has no gambling. There are a number of small gambling venues, but absolutely nothing like the mall-like monstrosity being proposed for Toronto.
 

Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
I'm not much of a gambler but I have no problem with a casino being built in the city. It'll help to raise the stature of the city, drive tourism and create jobs. People with gambling problems don't need a casino to get their fix, there are already multiple avenues for them to ruin their lives.

stew
I dont dispute these points, but lets look deeper at the type of jobs a casino creates, they seemed to be pretty low skilled, and low paying? Not really the type of jobs I would want to bring to this city if it was my call. I would rather put my efforts into more knowledge economy related roles.

Im on the side that a casino will suck money out of the local economy-and economic “cannibalization” of smaller businesses by casinos, increase crime, and create reams of social issues including busloads of addicted gamblers. To what degree? I have no idea. I dont want our city to roll the dice on this without more public debate, and more information regarding the pro's and con's with some facts, and figures.
 

agentRC4

TRIBE Member
I dont dispute these points, but lets look deeper at the type of jobs a casino creates, they seemed to be pretty low skilled, and low paying? Not really the type of jobs I would want to bring to this city if it was my call. I would rather put my efforts into more knowledge economy related roles.
Chris, these are exactly the type of jobs we need in the city in order to flourish. We can't move forward as a city if we don't support jobs for these types of workers.
 
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Persephone

TRIBE Member
I dont dispute these points, but lets look deeper at the type of jobs a casino creates, they seemed to be pretty low skilled, and low paying? Not really the type of jobs I would want to bring to this city if it was my call. I would rather put my efforts into more knowledge economy related roles.
Whether you like it or not, Ontario has a derth of 'unskilled' workers with no steady work. Our manufacturing sector, for example, is dwindling. There will always be people who fit the role. Might not be such a bad idea to offer good-paying work for these individuals within city limits (read: transit accessible) rather than force them to drive all over creation to work for minimum wage in the service sector. I can see that this would also be attractive for the city because it the province would help them with some development costs.

Just playing devil's advocate here...not everyone is cut out for highly skilled employment, yet those people are still a component of the economy of any major city. Its untenable to simply ignore that part of the economy.
 

Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
I'm just not sold that having a casino within Toronto is the be all and end all to the cities financial woes. For me, a casino doesn't really produce anything, and seems to just transfers income from suckers to predators.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Just playing devil's advocate here...not everyone is cut out for highly skilled employment, yet those people are still a component of the economy of any major city. Its untenable to simply ignore that part of the economy.
This is true to an extent, but in a city like Toronto that is trying to become 'world class' and attract the talent and capital that comes with that, a casino in the core sends the wrong message. Any gain in service sector jobs or low skill high wage jobs is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to offsetting the loss in manufacturing jobs, when the real priority is reskilling, training and investment in the education.

Toronto needs to be more strategic and think about the type of city it wants to build.

John Lorinc hit the nail on the head in his recent article citing some of the bold investments NYC is making compared to the bread and circuses nonsense Toronto is passing off as investment in the city.

Here is an excerpt:

But from where I sit, Bloomberg’s most singular achievement is the Applied Sciences Initiative by New York’s Economic Development Corp. The Big Apple has long lacked a world-class engineering and technical university, so Bloomberg two years ago launched a fascinating experiment to not only fill the void but also kick-start the city’s tech sector on a grand scale. Bloomberg’s plan was to offer $100 million and city land (Roosevelt Island and two other sites) to universities or consortia of research institutions prepared to invest big bucks in a top-notch campus/incubator capable of challenging Stanford/Silicon Valley and MIT/Boston.

The competition attracted 18 international bidding groups, and NYEDC unveiled the winner last spring: a $2 billion proposal from Cornell, in partnership with Israel’s Technion, renowned for technology commercialization. But the city also decided to back a second project for Brooklyn, proposed by a group that includes NYU, Carnegie Mellon and the University of Toronto. The Centre for Urban Science and Progress has a mandate to investigate the “science of cities” and develop technologies designed to sustainably accommodate the world’s increasingly urbanized population. According to Bloomberg’s economic development officials, “new research and technologies developed at the Center are expected to generate $5.5 billion in overall economic impact and 7,700 jobs over the next three decades.”

Now contrast this to the Ford administration’s flagship economic development scheme: a casino multiplex, likely to be located either on the Metro Toronto Convention Centre lands or at the CNE. As a staff report coming to today’s Executive Committee session claims, the project could create somewhere between 2,700 to 5,600 new ongoing jobs and additional revenues of $76 to $195 million.

There it is, writ large: thinking very big, and thinking very small
Full article: LORINC: Doubling Down on Toronto
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
I dont dispute these points, but lets look deeper at the type of jobs a casino creates, they seemed to be pretty low skilled, and low paying? Not really the type of jobs I would want to bring to this city if it was my call. I would rather put my efforts into more knowledge economy related roles.

Im on the side that a casino will suck money out of the local economy-and economic “cannibalization” of smaller businesses by casinos, increase crime, and create reams of social issues including busloads of addicted gamblers. To what degree? I have no idea. I dont want our city to roll the dice on this without more public debate, and more information regarding the pro's and con's with some facts, and figures.
granted the jobs part is not very awesome. I was just thinking of the people who already work low paying jobs at places like Ontario place..now there will be more. I was thinking more along the lines of increasing Toronto's stature as a place for conventions, a tourist destination, special event venues, etc. I'm all for doing what more to make Toronto a destination for people to spend money and visit. Like bachelor parties and grannies going for 3 day adventures to Vegas. Fun excursions but nothing too detrimental.The support needed for that type of infrastructure is huge, but not very high paying, but it's bettern than nothing.

And if it doesn't cost the city anything to build, then it seems like a net gain.

I really have no idea about the size of scope of problem gamblers, or the effects to what a casino does the outlying communities, or if it's even a real phenomenon.

Does anyone know if this has been the case in Niagara Falls, Ajax Downs, Woodbine, or any of the off-track betting places.

thanks,
Stew
 
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agentRC4

TRIBE Member
Don't forget that the Casino will make up less than 15% of the actual space. The rest is for retail, arts, dining, condo's ect.....

So lets not all get uppity about a big Casino. The gambling space will be rather small compared.

If it gets us a Celine Dion show for 365 days a year, it will have been worth it.
 

agentRC4

TRIBE Member
Alex, it would seem appropriate to see if you can get a second location for Crustworthy built into the plans.
 
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wickedken

TRIBE Member
which. Showgirls or giddy up

>:|
Showgirls is the best worst movie made by Paul Verhoeven.

A casino makes sense at Woodbine, not so much downtown.
People would go to a casino at Woodbine just as often as they do to Orillia or the falls. But hey, why not have casino's in both at Woodbine and downtown? That's right - because NO ONE would go to the Woodbine one. I think somewhere along the Don river would be great, south of Bloor, maybe take over part of the south don lands where the river turns into the lake.
 
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