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Gaza explodes, Israel helps blow things up


TRIBE Member
originalVIBE said:
Is that one of the Palestinian children that tried to get medical help in Egypt only to be shot at by their own people?
Haya and Lama Hamdan, ages 4 and 12 were killed just a few days ago by an Israeli missile strike.

I just think it is totally deplorable to be posting pictures of 'scared' and 'shocked' Jewish kids inside the wall while there are hundreds of dead on the other side and four year olds are being put in the ground.
Alex D. from TRIBE on Utility Room


TRIBE Member
originalVIBE said:
This war has been taking place for generations now. How do you expect them (Is/pal) to get past the hatred? Both sides deserve better. Israel can only offer peace so many times. Or is the solution just no more Israel in order to stop the fighting?
I hope you realize you are the only one in this thread arguing with such a blatant ideological orientation. No one is suggesting 'no more Israel'. What should be abundantly clear to anyone not blinded by zionism is that on a pragmatic level, Israel is acting the fool on the world stage. They will be paying for it in economic and diplomatic retreat in subsequent years.


TRIBE Promoter
Spinsah said:
Haya and Lama Hamdan, ages 4 and 12 were killed just a few days ago by an Israeli missile strike.

I just think it is totally deplorable to be posting pictures of 'scared' and 'shocked' Jewish kids inside the wall while there are hundreds of dead on the other side and four year olds are being put in the ground.

All i did was post the news release in its entirety. The paper is written by Jews, Christians and Arabs.

The same day that Hamas was showing this on TV celebrating the death of Israelis



TRIBE Promoter
Spinsah said:
I hope you realize you are the only one in this thread arguing with such a blatant ideological orientation. No one is suggesting 'no more Israel'. What should be abundantly clear to anyone not blinded by zionism is that on a pragmatic level, Israel is acting the fool on the world stage. They will be paying for it in economic and diplomatic retreat in subsequent years.

The world stage was happy when they disengaged from Gaza. Subsequent years later they are paying the price.

its easy to criticize without offering any other suggestion then this is not the way.


TRIBE Member
Here's a suggestion: stop firing fucking missiles. I think killing and wounding the most people in a single day in this conflict since 1948 sent enough of a message.

Or maybe a "peace march" into Gaza will really drive the point home?
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An email from an Israeli citizen:

Dear family and friends,

I feel that events are such I should once again try and relay to you my thoughts, in order that you will be able to have a better understanding of the situation here. Again, as in many times before, I am dismayed at the lack of proportions in the in-depth information from Israel as opposed to that coming from other sources. Due to this unfortunate state of events, the international community is too frequently exposed to communications which are far from being "even-handed" or fair.

As in my former reports to you, I will try to be as fair as possible, in portraying the very sad situation here. This is the first report I will be sending you, and I would welcome any comments or questions, and would certainly be happy if you thought that this was something you would like to pass on to your friends.

First some questions:

· When was the last time you ran for your life to a shelter to avoid being bombed?
· When was the last time your children were terrorized to the point where they wet their beds even at ages of 6 and 7?
· When was the last time your child demanded that the light stay on all night, and even then told you of his nightmares the next morning - all this on a daily basis?
· When was the last time you realized that your child will need a psychologist to help overcome his/her fears of loud noises and sirens?
· When was the last time your house had a near miss of a rocket fired at you, or worse, had your house crumble under the impact of a mortar shell?
· When was the last time that you could not tend to your crops, because the last time you went out to your fields you were fired on by snipers?
· When was the last time you lost your job because you wanted to stay at home with your family when your town was under attack?
· When was the last time that your child saw your neighbor lying in a pool of blood?
· When was the last time you checked to see if your child's kindergarten had a bomb shelter, and if not you took the child to another kindergarten which had one?
· When was the last time you went with friends to have a drink at a pub and had a suicide bomber blow himself up in front of you?
· When was the last time you made sure your child had an armed escort when he/she went on a school outing?
· When was the last time your government decided to spend over 400 million dollars on bomb shelters for your town?
· When was the last time your neighboring country swore to wipe you off the face of the earth, and does not recognize your right to exist?
· When…..

Now some facts:

· For the last 8 years (yes… eight whole years, which are 96 straight months), the southern part of Israel (population around 250,000) has had over 22,000 rockets and mortar shells fired into its cities and villages. This is an average of approximately 2500 per year (since January 2008, we have counted over 3000). This means an average of approximately 8 (!!) rockets a day. Can you even imagine such a number?
· There is no child in Sderot under the age of 10, who knows any other existence than that of daily fear of a bomb landing on his home, school, or shopping mall. How would you feel if this happened in your town and to your children?
· Over three years ago, we unilaterally left the Gaza Strip, removed all vestiges of our army, uprooted all the civilian population which lived there, and abandoned all the homes, fields, and industrial complexes. All this without a reciprocal agreement on the side of the Palestinians to cease all hostilities. This action was intended to allow the Palestinians to fulfill their own dream of a sovereign state, without any interference on our part.
· Since June 2008, there has been a "cease-fire" agreement brokered by the Egyptians. The only trouble is that we have "ceased" while the Hammas has "fired" an average of 6 rockets a week (this is their understanding of an agreement). Besides trying to spot the launchers, and pinpoint attacking them if we were able to do so with 100% certainty, and only then, we did not reciprocate in any other way.
· During this period, we restrained ourselves not to hit back. The only recourse we had, when words, agreements, unilateral restraint and requests did not work, was to warn the Hammas government that if they did not stop the rocket attacks which totally disrupted any sort of "normal" existence for our citizens in the region, we would reduce the entry of supplies to the Gaza Strip. However, out of humane considerations, we continued to send urgent supplies, even under fire.
· To this day, we supply 70% of all the electricity in Gaza, and have never stopped this supply, except for one day when the electric plant in Ashdod, which supplies the "juice" to Gaza, was attacked by a suicide bomber. There is no "darkness" in Gaza, whatever is said or shown to the contrary.
· During the three days prior to our attack in Gaza over 200 rockets were fired at southern Israel, mainly at the city of Sderot, but also to many of the agricultural settlements around the Gaza strip – all inside Israel's international borders. This was the response of Hammas to our willingness to sit and discuss the continuation of the so-called "cease-fire" between us.
· Every such attack has had the entire civilian population of these towns and agricultural settlements running as fast as they can for a shelter - women, children, the elderly, sick people, in short, the whole civilian population.
· These rocket and mortar attacks are aimed specifically at civilian concentrations, to kill and injure as many innocent people as possible.
· Countless times over this period, and before, we have deliberated how to combat this situation, and each time we have opted for another concession towards peace, and have responded infrequently and even then at a very specific location from which the rockets were launched
· The fact is that of the hundreds of Palestinians killed over the past 2-3 years, 95% have been terrorists either setting up their rocket launchers , or on their way to an attack on one of the settlements in the region
· Sgt. Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier who was abducted to Gaza by the Palestinian terrorists over 920 days ago, has not been allowed to send or receive letters, the Red Cross has not been allowed to visit him, and he has spent the whole time, close to three years, in a hole somewhere in the Gaza Strip. This is outrageously inhumane.
· During the past ten years, we have signed at least five agreements, in which we requested the same demands that were initiated by the "Quartet" (The USA, Russia, the U.N., and the European Community), namely:
o Recognition of the State of Israel (which all countries of the world have done)
o Cessation of all terrorist activities
In return we would be willing to negotiate for a fair settlement to all the problems between us
· Even though the Palestinian leaders, first Arafat then Mahmoud Abbas (Abu-Mazen), signed the agreements, the attacks continued unabated

Now to some comments:

· When we left Gaza, with all the small industrial works and the very modern and sophisticated greenhouses intact, at the request of the world community so that the Palestinians will have the ability to support themselves, they destroyed all of these down to rubble. This has to mean that they had little intention of trying to help their population to self-reliance and the country to some income.
· How can the world sit back for so many years and look upon what was going on in our towns and villages around Gaza, and only become outraged when we finally say: "enough is enough" and hit back?
· What is this nonsense about "excessive force"? For years we have restrained ourselves, we have made every effort to find peaceful solutions, such as those we have in our peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan, while we are being shelled on a daily basis. How long can any country stand this? I bet not even Norway, the center for the Nobel Peace Prize and a country which has grave concerns about our intentions, would stand for this for even one month without retaliating
· As to excessive force, should we send our kids out to throw stones at passing Arab vehicles, as Arab kids do on our roads? Should we sporadically shell cities in the Gaza Strip, just so that our response is "measured" against theirs? Should we recruit maniacs who are willing to commit ritual suicide in Arab restaurants? What are we, as a normal and democratic country, supposed to do? Continuously "understand" that the Palestinian demands should be met so that the world community can finally have some peace in the Middle East? These "salami" tactics will find us in the Mediterranean within five years!
· No. As in any country you are familiar with will do, we will use whatever means we have to achieve peace and quiet for our citizens. If we do not, then are failing our duty as a country to its citizens.
· In addition, since we do not intend to carry out such actions on a regular basis, then on the one time we do strike back, we will do so until the Hammas does not have the will to continue its policy. We have attacked only Hammas installations, and if there was a fair reporting of the events, you would notice that over 90% of all the Palestinian casualties were wearing uniforms. We have tried to be as accurate as possible in our attacks so that we spare the civilian population. We have NEVER targeted civilians, as they have ours
· No one asked Joe Louis to fight all comers with one hand behind his back because he was stronger than his opponents, and no one has asked Michael Jordan to shoot only with his left hand, because he was so much better than all other basketball players.
· We are a country, and we have an army to protect its citizens. Our army has been carefully built so as to be able to answer any threat to our existence. We will use all measures necessary, once all other avenues have been blocked, to thwart this threat.
o The Hammas does not recognize us or our borders.
o The Hammas has sworn to continue to attack us until we drop
o The Hammas gets its weaponry and orders from Iran and the extremist Islam leaders of the world, and will not listen to anyone or any other voice
· We cannot allow this to happen, and cannot allow another Holocaust to our people
· What would you and/or your government do if your border towns were shelled on a regular basis? Sit and wait for the world community to give your neighbor a slap on the hand? I would venture to say that in any Western country, you would hit back after the second or third rocket attack, whether there were casualties or not, irrespective of what the world community says or requests. We have been holding ourselves in restraint for years!
· Barak Obama, when he visited Sderot a year ago, said that if his house, and his girls, were attacked by rockets, he would not stand for it and retaliate
· The Hammas, as part of the radical Islamic groups, is a serious threat not only to Israel, but perhaps even more so to the moderate Arab countries, as well as the Western world. It is inflaming the minds of the Islamic youths, teaching them to hate while not giving them any hope for a future
· During these last few days, we have heard the Egyptian foreign minister and the editor of the official Saudi newspaper, say that the Hammas can only blame itself for what is happening to it now. The other moderate Arab countries have the same sentiments. The Hammas, as the representative of the extremist Islamic groups, is a real and present danger to them and their countries
· What are the ultimate goals of the Hammas? If it is to establish a sovereign state, then three years ago when we left Gaza they had the opportunity to show themselves and the world, that they can do so. We opened all the crossing points to Palestinian workers, assisted Palestinian officials in all the professional activities that a country needs (agriculture, medicine, sanitation, education, etc), and what we got back were suicide bombers and rocket attacks. In this situation, what does any "normal" country do? It closes the border crossings and discontinues its open policy. Would you shake your neighbor's hand, if on a daily basis his dog attacks your child despite your requests from him to rein in his dog?
· If the goal is not to establish a state, then it seems as if is their only aim is the annihilation of Israel. We will not stand for this

In order not have this report become unwieldy and long, I will stop here for the moment, and I promise to continue.

With very best wishes,

Oren Zinder


TRIBE Member
Spinsah said:
Here's a suggestion: stop firing fucking missiles. I think killing and wounding the most people in a single day in this conflict since 1948 sent enough of a message.

but what is the alternative action that would stop the rocket strikes? From a practical standpoint pressure from the electorate means that the israeli government has to act. What alternative is there to the air strikes if Hamas indicates that it will not continue a ceasefire and not stop firing the rockets?


TRIBE Member
I do not dispute that there needed to be a military reaction to the persistent rocket fire into Israel. That said, it is the responsibility of Israeli politicians to communicate to their population that the strikes have made an impact. I think 300 lives is enough of a statement. With international pressure bearing down, Israel has flexed enough muscle that any further strikes are only going to polarize and radicalize.


TRIBE Member
It's not as simple as, "okay, we are up to 300, let's stop now." The rockets are still being fired. The government has been releasing crap saying that something like 90% of their 500 targets have been destroyed, and Hamas recently mentioned they could be willing to accept another cease-fire. I'm sure they are looking for a way out, but as long as the rocket fire is being sustained, they are going to be forced to either keep action on or somehow convince the electorate that there is an acceptable level of sustained rocket fire they should be willing to live with. If they don't do that, then there will be a change of government to a party that will.

Obviously this is a shitty situation, and if I could see another option then of course it would be the one to take. Realistically though they need to get the rocket volumes down low enough that they can justify cessation of military actions, or find some backroom deal such that they can enter another ceasefire. I'm sure they are working on both but to be honest I don't really know what else they can do, if you have suggestions I would be interested.


TRIBE Member
I am so sick of people defending Hamas and their supporters!

At least Israel is attempting, albeit sometimes quite poorly, to hit millitary targets. Hamas is launching these rockets, blind, with no regard at all who they kill. Any Israeli dead is considered a victory for Hamas.

Secondly, war is war, since when does there need to be an equal number of dead on each side? If that was the case, there would be no winning party.

I don't understand how the majority of leftists can close their eyes when this particular conflict has such a clear agressor. (I can understand objection to sensless wars like Iraq, WWI, Korea etc.)

There was a clear agitator in this case, it's time Hamas and their supporters get what they deserve.
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judge wopner

TRIBE Member
interesting posts all around.

Original Vibe:

i think the emotive arguments will never sway more astute thinkers on this topic, only the general masses who's understanding of the isreali/palestine situation is limited to mainstream media reports.


i usually find your posts engaging and bitting but your response to OV was ironically lacking the same depth of analysis that you were accusing him of.

the idea of "overwhelming force" as a knock against isreal incursions into arab territories makes no sense and is a tired and intellectually dated concept. what does isreal's towering military strength have anything to do w/ the issue of whether or not they should attempt to stop missle attacks?

if you are suggesting they use diplomacy and other means the i would agree, military force should always be your last option. while i dont know enough about the issue itself to say with conviction that isreal has or does not have a right to make military inroads into the occupied territories i try to consider it from a military perspective in terms of results and expenditures:

why else would hamas fire rockets and embed the launch sites in residential areas? its supposed to act as a natural deterrent, done w/ the hope that isreal will be less willing to go all in and dismantle them, or make it a media nightmare when they try.

Hamas is placing the citizens who voted them in office in harms way. i dont believe they wanted this in the first place, they are stuck in between.

this idea that hamas is just representing the people or that the IDF are causing disproportionate destruction is untenable: some rocket sites were purposefully set up in dense residental areas. are we really that naive to believe gazans are perfectly fine with this arrangement? to believe so is to presume that most gazans are prepared to be martyrs which has never been proven.

conversely: is the IDF soley to blame for causing destruction and civilian casualties? why are people so quick to call for IDF war crimes and use of "disproportionate force" less vocal in their demands that Hamas carry out military operations outside of dense residential areas?

the issue of the rockets being fired seems to be a fairly poor decision militarily as it achieves no constructive objective other than death and destruction of their own region and limited destruction of isreali targets taht have no military value. regardless of how one feels about the isreali/palastinian situation the use of rockets only seems to invite the IDF to cause widespread destruction. this is not to suggest the IDF or isreal is free of any blame at all. im unclear what hamas thinks it will loose if it ceases firing rockets into isreal? i could understand if they felt it gave them a strategic advantage or a leg-up in negotiations for prisoner exchange or something, but all it seems to do is draw in some press and wide-scale descrution.

would gazan's as a whole loose something if they stopped firing rockets? this seems to be absent from the debate. what could they be doing with those same resources from a military standpoint to aid in their struggle?


TRIBE Promoter
We Kill You. You Kill Us.

How fucking absurd.

The reason why certain people feel that the disproportionate numbers of deaths being all the same, is because the value of humans vary. This too is absurd.

We as humans are all insane. We do the same things over and over, expecting a different result.
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Well-Known TRIBEr
Viceroy butterfly:

Monarch butterfly:

Can you tell the difference?


Well-Known TRIBEr
Bonobo ape (Pan paniscus):

Chimpanzee ape (Pan troglodytes):

Can you tell the difference?

These are different species, with different behaviours...


TRIBE Member
^maybe this is a stupid question but could you elaborate on your point about different species, with different behaviours?
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TRIBE Member
i'm genuinely interested in the genetic similarity or difference between the two. to be honest it's not clear to me how far back was their common ancestor.


TRIBE Promoter
Hamas moves on Fatah 'collaborators'
Jan. 4, 2009
Khaled Abu Toameh , THE JERUSALEM POST

The Hamas government has placed dozens of Fatah members under house arrest out of fear that they might exploit the current IDF operation to regain control of the Gaza Strip.

The move came amid reports that the Fatah leadership in the West Bank has instructed its followers to be ready to assume power over the Gaza Strip when and if Israel's military operation results in the removal of Hamas rule.

Fatah officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that Hamas militiamen had been assaulting many Fatah activists since the beginning of the operation last Saturday. They said at least 75 activists were shot in the legs while others had their hands broken.

Wisam Abu Jalhoum, a Fatah activist from the Jabalya refugee camp, was shot in the legs by Hamas militiamen for allegedly expressing joy over the IDF air strikes on Hamas targets.

"Hamas is very nervous, because they feel that their end is nearing," a senior Fatah official said. "They have been waging a brutal campaign against Fatah members in the Gaza Strip."

Meanwhile, sources close to Hamas revealed over the weekend that the movement had "executed" more than 35 Palestinians who were suspected of collaborating with Israel and were being held in various Hamas security installations.

The sources quoted Hamas officials as saying that the decision to kill the suspected collaborators was taken out of fear that Israel might try to rescue them during a ground offensive. The officials claimed that at least half of the victims were killed by relatives of Palestinian militiamen who were killed as a result of information passed on to Israel by the "collaborators."

Justifying the latest crackdown on Fatah, a Hamas official in Gaza City said that his government had received information according to which Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas had instructed his loyalists in the Strip to start moving toward undermining Hamas.

"We will kill them all if they try to help Israel bring down our government," the official said. "We will hang Mahmoud Abbas and [former Fatah security chief] Muhammad Dahlan in the public square if they try to enter the Gaza Strip aboard Israeli tanks."

The Hamas official said that his security forces had launched a massive "preemptive" campaign aimed at thwarting Fatah's attempts to "spread anarchy and chaos." He confirmed that many Fatah operatives had been shot in the legs over the past few days by Hamas "to make sure that they don't help Israel."

Fahmi Za'arir, a Fatah spokesman in the West Bank, accused Hamas of "executing" a number of Fatah detainees. He said the Fatah leadership knew of at least two Fatah men who were shot dead by Hamas after being released from prison. He named them as Nasser Muhana and Saher al-Silawi.

Za'arir said that several Fatah members who attended funerals of victims of the IAF strikes were severely beaten by Hamas militiamen who accused them of collaboration with Israel.

It was "shameful" that Hamas was directing its weapons and energies against its own people instead of fighting against Israel, the spokesman said.

The decision to place Fatah operatives under house arrest was issued by the much-feared "Internal Security Apparatus," which reports to the Hamas-controlled Interior Ministry in Gaza.

The order, which was delivered to the Fatah activists on Thursday, reads: "You are forbidden from leaving your home for 48 hours unless you want to attend Friday prayers. Anyone who violates the order will be punished."

This article can also be read at http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733155685&pagename=JPArticle/ShowFull
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TRIBE Member
I think that Palestine/Israel threads are as painful as they are because, apart from perhaps a few liberal Jew kids, there is no one on net forums with any personal stake at all. Like, the argument runs on pure sanctimony and information gleaned from shitty "truth" blogs and manufactured western-liberal outrage. I mean, you'll get a few of the die-hards making a bit of noise about Sudan or whatever, but the clamour is pretty much directly tied to media coverage and the desire to hold the oppositve view to Fox/CNN/"The Man".


TRIBE Member
I dont get what you're saying Diablo - other than saying that anyone who might disagree with current Israeli policy (usually what the line is from Fox/CNN/"the Man") are just being hipster-douchebag contrarians?

If thats what you're saying than maybe it was better if you didn't post at all...:)


TRIBE Member
Even in Sderot, Israelis Say No to Endless War

Adam Horowitz | link

It has been widely acknowledged that Israel began a public relations campaign soon after beginning their bombing campaign over Gaza. As usual, they have had plenty of help.

One example of this was Alan Dershowitz's article "Israel, Hamas, and moral idiocy" which ran in the Christian Science Monitor on New Year's eve. In a tired tradition, Dershowitz tries to blame the Palestinians for making Israel kill them:

"The firing of rockets at civilians from densely populated civilian areas is the newest tactic in the war between terrorists who love death and democracies that love life." This is just the latest version of a justification for collective punishment that Zionist luminaries have been offering for decades. Golda Meir articulated this sentiment most famously after the 1967 war: "When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."​
The one piece of the Dershowitz article, and the broader pro-war p.r. campaign, that warrants a response is his comments on Sderot. Sderot is a town on the border of Israel and Gaza and the frequent target of missiles from Gaza. They have now been facing rocket fire for eight years. In that time they have faced thousands of rockets and 13 residents have been killed. Sderot is often held up as the reason for the Israeli attacks. Dershowitz explains, "The residents of Sderot were demanding that their nation take action to protect them." He understands this as a demand that Israel obliterate Gaza.

Like Dershowitz I've been to Sderot: just over a year ago in November, 2007. Like him, I saw the devastating effects of the missiles from Gaza. Even though there had not been a death from these rockets in recent memory when I was there, I was not surprised to find that the missiles had inflicted an incredible mental wound on the residents. But I was surprised to find that although the people of Sderot who I met wanted the missiles to end they understood that militarism would not protect them.

The people I met with were not calling for war, they were calling for negotiation. They knew that they would be the ones to catch the brunt of an attack on Gaza, not Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. Even an IDF commander I met told me, off the record, "The Qassams [missiles] are like stones, there is no way to stop them. The only way is negotiation."

My experience has been affirmed by the people of Sderot itself. Ironically, the Washington Post published a powerful op-ed by Julia Chaitin, a senior lecturer at the Sapir Academic College near Sderot, the same day the Dershowitz article ran. Chaitin wrote in "Darkness in Qassam-Land,"

But I know the answer to our conflict will not come with this war. We will know peace only when we accept the fact that the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have every right to lives of dignity. We will know peace only when we recognize that we must negotiate with Hamas, our enemy, even if we are devastated that the Palestinians did not elect a more moderate party to lead them. We will know peace only when our leaders stop considering our lives cheap and expendable, and help us create a beautiful, green Negev, free of fear and despair.​
Even more amazing, residents of Sderot are organizing to try to end the attacks. Read the text of this petition signed by hundreds of Sderot's residents which has been posted at the website jews sans frontieres. From the petition:

The period of calm changed the lives of the people of Sderot, Ashkelon and the region beyond recognition, allowing all of us to experience again a life that is more normal and sane. The continuation of this calm is essential and critical to the residents of the region from every possible aspect: physical, mental, spiritual and economic.

Another round of escalation may break our already brittle spirit, and take us all to another round of self-destruction and pointless bloodshed. It is not certain that we will survive. And you must be aware of that, if you indeed care about the residents of this area. We've been through this movie too many years--and results speak for themselves: feeling trapped, abandonment, and hopelessness for us and our children!​
The petition continues:

On the other side of the border live a million and a half Palestinians under unbearable conditions, and most of them want, like we do, calm and the opportunity of a future for themselves and their families.

We live in the feeling that you have wasted that period of calm, instead of using it to advance understandings and begin negotiations, as well as for fortifying the houses of residents as promised.

We call on the Prime Minister and the Defense minister not to listen to the voices of incitement and do everything they can to avoid another round of escalation, to secure the continuation of the calm and to work...towards direct or indirect negotiations with the Palestinian leadership in Gaza in order to reach long term understandings.

We prefer a cold war without a single rocket to a hot war with dozens of victims and innocent fatalities on both sides.

We ask you to offer us the possibility of political arrangement and hope and not an endless cycle of blood.​
Clearly not all people in Sderot agree with these views, as has been shown. But it's also clear that Dershowitz and other proponents of the endless war will always use the people of Sderot as the cannon fodder they need in the moment. The residents of Sderot are primarily Mizrahi Jews, poor and working class, who have been settled on the periphery to play exactly this role. As much as Dershowitz might want to fight to the finish, those in the crossfire just want an end to the shooting.


TRIBE Member
praktik said:
I dont get what you're saying Diablo - other than saying that anyone who might disagree with current Israeli policy (usually what the line is from Fox/CNN/"the Man") are just being hipster-douchebag contrarians?

Not taking a side. Just commenting on the fact that no issue gets the self-proclaimed "experts" typing away quite so hard, or sets the fair/impartial bar so low, or brings out hyberbolic comparisons to Hitler quite as much as the Israel-Palestine debate.
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