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Egypt protests

stryker

TRIBE Member
It's a new dawn in Egypt!

Glad to see that honorable men have done the right thing in Egypt. Democracy is not currently compatible in Arab countries and unfortunately a military coup is a necessary evil required to keep Islamist ideologies at bay.

I hope Erdogan is watching.

With luck El Baradei will run and eventually become the next President.

Stew
 

dig this

TRIBE Member
The plight of women protestors has really taken a back seat in the news over the general political upheaval that has been happening. It's a horrible horrible situation in Egypt right now for women. Unbelievably horrendous stuff.

Egypt's Female Protestors Live In Fear Of A "Circle Of Hell"
“A woman who joins protests among thugs and street inhabitants should protect herself before asking the Ministry of Interior to offer her protection,” prominent politician Adel Afifi said during the council’s address on sexual harassment. “Women sometimes cause rape upon themselves through putting themselves in a position which makes them subject to rape.” Afifi also alluded that many of the reported “rapes” were in fact consensual acts of prostitution.
This is the kinda backwards shit that needs to change. Sounds like Cairo needs to take part in their own Slut Walk.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
Egypt's top military officer, Gen. Abdel-Fatah El-Sisi, is an alum of the U.S. Army War College in Pennsylvania.
The US provides $1.5bn a year to Egypt in military and economic assistance.
Under US law, the government must suspend foreign aid to any nation whose elected leader is ousted in a coup d'etat.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Egypt's top military officer, Gen. Abdel-Fatah El-Sisi, is an alum of the U.S. Army War College in Pennsylvania.
The US provides $1.5bn a year to Egypt in military and economic assistance.
Under US law, the government must suspend foreign aid to any nation whose elected leader is ousted in a coup d'etat.
Yep Egypt has been in top 3 or top 5 of american military aid for some decades... Which was what made American voices raised in support of nascent Egyptian democracy somewhat tough to swallow, given their support of a dictatorship.

The idea being that they kept a lid on people like morsi (kind of same reason they supported other autocrats in the region, Saddam included)
 

Big Harv

TRIBE Member
on top of their legal requirement (assuming that is true) I think the U.S. should suspend their aid to Egypt until Egypt gets their ducks in a row as to how they are going to implement a fair and long term sustainable solution to the governance of their country.
 

erika

TRIBE Member
This is not true. Many of the muslim brotherhood members have post secondary educations, they're still religious ideologues, albeit educated zealots.

Stew
Possible but literacy levels across the country aren't that great, and that goes for other lovely enclaves such as Pakistan and Afghanistan.
 

erika

TRIBE Member
on top of their legal requirement (assuming that is true) I think the U.S. should suspend their aid to Egypt until Egypt gets their ducks in a row as to how they are going to implement a fair and long term sustainable solution to the governance of their country.
I don't think that really buys anyone much; "ducks in a row" is a pretty subjective term, given that Morsi was democratically elected then proceeded to rip things apart. And doesn't continuing to give aid have a chance of helping to maintain some level of stability in the region?
 

erika

TRIBE Member
Egypt's top military officer, Gen. Abdel-Fatah El-Sisi, is an alum of the U.S. Army War College in Pennsylvania.
The US provides $1.5bn a year to Egypt in military and economic assistance.
Under US law, the government must suspend foreign aid to any nation whose elected leader is ousted in a coup d'etat.
This is why there is a big debate as to whether this is really a "coup d'etat" or not...
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
I don't think that really buys anyone much; "ducks in a row" is a pretty subjective term, given that Morsi was democratically elected then proceeded to rip things apart. And doesn't continuing to give aid have a chance of helping to maintain some level of stability in the region?
See my article on the last page, 'there is nothing we can do'

Withholding the aid to Egypt as a chip to play against Morsi could have solidified his power base as he would have a new reason to galvanize people against America who could be portrayed as punitively punishing Egypt for electing people Uncle Sam doesn't like.

Withholding the aid to Egypt now cause of the coup could be justified for legal reasons - but the impact of this to Egypt itself may be, perversely for the perceived American interest, undercut the military's ability to suppress people Uncle Sam doesn't like.

Keeping the aid may be what American planners see as best for their geostrategic interest - the other question is whether you want to increase instability in what is really a smouldering cauldron of a country. Legal rationales may be found that gets them out of the legal dilemma - since this is what every country does when they have the influence to avoid international censure and when the law conflicts with their desires..
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
This is why there is a big debate as to whether this is really a "coup d'etat" or not...
the military took Morsi out of power. the military are now arresting anyone involved with the Muslim Brotherhood. seems cut and dry as to exactly what this was.
 

Ho||yw0oD

TRIBE Member
While I am no supporter of military coups, I think some additional perspective is necessary. In Egypt, the military is widely viewed as an army of the people. They are there to defend what many would consider to be citizenry best interests.

Some would argue they were complicit, or even active agents, in and throughout Mubarak's atrocities. But as was already mentioned in this thread, many enjoyed the safety, security and stability throughout Mubarak's reign. Had many of Turkey's military leadership not been thrown in jail, we may have seen a similar coup occur in Turkey.
 

dig this

TRIBE Member
I think it's easy for us to call it a coup, and easy for the Egyptians to call it something else; you could argue that the army was acting with the people, and the people wanted Morsi out. If this was the case, then I'd say the hell with democracy - the "right" thing happened. But I feel that the army took an opportunity to get rid of a president they didn't want, and disguised it as defending the people.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
PLus if Morsi really was failing, then LET HIM FAIL

Now they can say "well we never had a chance to try our policies cause we were thwarted mid-stream"
 

dig this

TRIBE Member
PLus if Morsi really was failing, then LET HIM FAIL

Now they can say "well we never had a chance to try our policies cause we were thwarted mid-stream"
Yeah, but he did a lot of damage in one year, after four the damage could have been ireversable. Keep in mind that this guy is Mulsim Brotherhood - links to terrorism inside Egypt & pushing for Sharia law (and for the sake of argument maybe a few good things too.) Within the one year it became very apparent that MB wasn't a 'changed' party, but the same old party that has been persecuted for years. Another 3 years in power and the laws in Egypt could have changed much for the worse, all pushed through 'democratically'. This is why the Nazi party is outlawed in Germany - as democratic as they are, they forbid any party that references Naziism and their values. This is not a democratic policy. Imagine the PQ having a majority in Canada after a campaign of unifying the country, then pushing a separatist agenda. If you don't nip it in the budd asap you may be sorry later.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Yeah, but he did a lot of damage in one year, after four the damage could have been ireversable. Keep in mind that this guy is Mulsim Brotherhood - links to terrorism inside Egypt & pushing for Sharia law (and for the sake of argument maybe a few good things too.) Within the one year it became very apparent that MB wasn't a 'changed' party, but the same old party that has been persecuted for years. Another 3 years in power and the laws in Egypt could have changed much for the worse, all pushed through 'democratically'. This is why the Nazi party is outlawed in Germany - as democratic as they are, they forbid any party that references Naziism and their values. This is not a democratic policy. Imagine the PQ having a majority in Canada after a campaign of unifying the country, then pushing a separatist agenda. If you don't nip it in the budd asap you may be sorry later.
You should probably read the article I posted - seems lioke 70-80% of the country WANTS sharia law.

IF the islamism doesn't come from the MB there are 3-4 other islamist parties that will take up their space.

This issue is not about secularism vs islamism, its about the particular brand and implementation of islamism the country wants.


This is Not the End of Islamism in Egypt: Beyond the Pro- and Anti-Islamist Divide
 
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ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
for the 1st time, military intervened to separate pro and anti Morsi supporters on October Bridge.
 
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