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Ebay/Paypal dispute

gollum

TRIBE Member
So I got boned on an ebay transaction. I normally charge whatever shipping the buyer wants. This last transaction the guy lives in the UK and pays for the lowest shipping, no tracking.

So this is small package ground shipping to the UK (the post office guy says its going to take a long time).

This person initiates a dispute with me 16 days after purchase. (I've had packages take over 20 days to California).

I have a receipt but that isn't good enough. I need according to Pay Pal:
A valid tracking number that can be tracked online through the shipping company's website, showing merchandise delivered to the buyer's confirmed address. For transactions equal to $250.00 USD (or the equivalent in the currency of the transaction) or more in value, you will also need to provide an online proof-of-receipt in the form of a signature from the recipient. Please Note: If the dispute reason of any dispute listed above is Not as Described, it cannot be resolved with proof of delivery, as the buyer is not disputing receipt of the merchandise. For resolution of these disputes, the buyer must contact PayPal directly to cancel the dispute, or a full refund must be issued.
So just writing this to vent and to warn everyone that uses ebay to ensure you have tracking.

That is all.
 

Boo

TRIBE Member
to be fair, from his point of view

he bought the item, paid for it and never received it.

He should realy wait a couple more weeks, but if he doesn't get it its not really his fault.

If I bought something online, and it just never showed up, I would expect the seller to do everything in their power to find out what happened.
 

Taro

TRIBE Member
^to an extent yes, but the buyer was the one who wanted the cheapest shipping cost, which didn't cover the cost of a tracking number. It was up to him (the buyer) to pay the appropriate amount for the tracking number.

What if the package arrives 2 months later?

*edit.

that sucks. Sorry to hear it
 

basilisk

TRIBE Member
I had this happen once - where a buyer would not wait in case the package was delayed in the post. He screamed and shouted and threatened and I said - fine! fuck, it was a gooddamn CD, you can have your refund if it's so important to you and you can't damn well wait another week in case it's a bit late. I refunded him, and next week it shows up. At least he wasn't an asshole and didn't tell me. He had already gone and left negative feedback on me DESPITE ME REFUNDING HIM so I was really pissed off. Moral of the story: some people are jerks. Nonetheless, I think ebay is particularly remarkable given how much business does go on without a hitch.
 

rejenerate

TRIBE Member
That really does suck. Ground shipping outside of North America takes FOREVER. I suggest that in future transactions, you specify in your listing that anyone outside N.A. has to pay for a trackable method.
 

squirrely

TRIBE Member
i know pretty much nothing about ebay but shouldn't tracking be standard to avoid this kinda thing? i mean, it covers BOTH your asses. everyone wins!
 

SJN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by squirrely
i know pretty much nothing about ebay but shouldn't tracking be standard to avoid this kinda thing? i mean, it covers BOTH your asses. everyone wins!
No, it shouldn't be standard. Tracking costs extra, and buyers shouldn't be obligated to pay for it if they don't want it -- as a buyer, I generally choose the cheapest shipping method possible if I'm dealing with a low value item and I don't need it in a hurry.

When I'm the seller, I always make it very clear to buyers that they can choose whatever shipping method they want (always at their own cost of course). That discussion is always well documented in emails after the auction closes. Gollum, do you have communication (i.e., emails) that clearly indicates that the buyer was given options with respect to shipping (and the estimated delivery times were provided), and that he made the choice himself?
 

Rataxès

TRIBE Member
Always ship eBay autcions via a shipping method that includes a tracking number, signature, and proof of delivery. I don't give my buyers an option after getting burned a couple of times.
 

Hipsterave

TRIBE Promoter
Ive seen records Ive picked up in the UK take almost 3 months to arrive. IF you have a reciept from the post office you mailed it from send him a copy and tell him to hold out its on the way.
 

The Tesseract

TRIBE Member
wtf?

I ordered 2 records about a year ago, off Ebay from Gloucester, UK.
I got them 9days later. They came via Royal Postal.

*shrugs*
 

veteze

TRIBE Promoter
I've sold about 30 - 40 records online and every one was sent cheap cheap ground style - even to the UK (ground to the UK!??! - WTF). Only once have I had the package "not arrive". I gave the guy his money back. It's the cost of selling on ebay. You will eventually burned. It's rare but it does happen. You can minimize the damage by being as bend over and take it in the ass as you possibly can.

--r
 

gollum

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by SJN
No, it shouldn't be standard. Tracking costs extra, and buyers shouldn't be obligated to pay for it if they don't want it -- as a buyer, I generally choose the cheapest shipping method possible if I'm dealing with a low value item and I don't need it in a hurry.

When I'm the seller, I always make it very clear to buyers that they can choose whatever shipping method they want (always at their own cost of course). That discussion is always well documented in emails after the auction closes. Gollum, do you have communication (i.e., emails) that clearly indicates that the buyer was given options with respect to shipping (and the estimated delivery times were provided), and that he made the choice himself?
I do but according to PayPal it doesn't matter. Unless I have a tracking number that can be accessed online, they will refund the money. What this means is as a buyer I can buy as much stuff as I want through paypal and always get my money back, unless there is tracking.

Luckily I had withdrawn most of my paypal account before this happened, so I'm actually only out 4.50$ (and the items I shipped). But its the principal.

I called the guy unprofessional and his response was that I was unprofessional for not replying to his email for 4 days (I was driving across Canada, I guess I'm supposed to check my email every few minutes).
 

The Tesseract

TRIBE Member
Gollum - are you using Ebay as an outlet for an actual business? cause if you are, then he's right (technically)
but if you're just a regular user using ebay - what does it matter if you're called "unproffesional"

you have to be "professional" first, before you can get called "unprofessional", right?
:)
 

sunnybreaks

TRIBE Member
honestly, don't give the option to buyers snail mail. A registered shipping method is to cover your own ass. This is also why I never agree to arrange 'local pick-up' if the buyer lives nearby.

A dispute can even be initiated by the buyer's credit card company, if that's what is linked to his/her paypla account. You would then be requested to provide this tracking info.


The moral of the story is, cover your ass biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiish!
 

gollum

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by sunnybreaks
honestly, don't give the option to buyers snail mail. A registered shipping method is to cover your own ass. This is also why I never agree to arrange 'local pick-up' if the buyer lives nearby.

A dispute can even be initiated by the buyer's credit card company, if that's what is linked to his/her paypla account. You would then be requested to provide this tracking info.


The moral of the story is, cover your ass biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiish!
You are correct and I understand this now. I figured if I had a receipt for purchase of shipping to this guys address, I have proved my case, that I actually bought the shipping.

But I was wrong. I think paypal/ebay should make this information known. I never knew about it, that's for damn sure.
 

Liquidity

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by sunnybreaks
honestly, don't give the option to buyers snail mail. A registered shipping method is to cover your own ass. This is also why I never agree to arrange 'local pick-up' if the buyer lives nearby.

A dispute can even be initiated by the buyer's credit card company, if that's what is linked to his/her paypla account. You would then be requested to provide this tracking info.

you could always demand cash for a local pick up?
 

Amy_J

TRIBE Member
that sux.

I'm going through similar bullshit right now where I bought an MF Doom & De La record from some guy in the UK. Sent money order which according to his agreeable payment shit is fine. Now he tells me my money order "bounced" which is impossible. Filed a complaint only to get assinine comments as to why he isn't sending my record and the amount isn't over $15 (UK) so I can't go through the payment protection thing. He obviously got the money order and I've checked the receipt from the post office and the full amount that was supposed to be sent to him and everything's right, but he won't send my record. I get an email from him yesterday saying "I'll be in Canada next year, I'll cash it then". Now I have to order a duplicate money order and hope he hasn't cashed it or I'm out around $20 and a dope record. And to boot he got pissed when I gave him a negative rating.
 

SJN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Amy_J
Sent money order which according to his agreeable payment shit is fine. Now he tells me my money order "bounced" which is impossible.
Never pay by money order or check. It's virtually impossible to recover the funds after its been cashed. Seriously, the only payment methods you should use are PayPal or Credit Card -- to use anything else is just asking for trouble. It sucks that eBay seems to getting more sketchy (Lately I've been coming accross more problem transactions than in the past).
 

sunnybreaks

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Amy_J
that sux.

I'm going through similar bullshit right now where I bought an MF Doom & De La record from some guy in the UK. Sent money order which according to his agreeable payment shit is fine. Now he tells me my money order "bounced" which is impossible. Filed a complaint only to get assinine comments as to why he isn't sending my record and the amount isn't over $15 (UK) so I can't go through the payment protection thing. He obviously got the money order and I've checked the receipt from the post office and the full amount that was supposed to be sent to him and everything's right, but he won't send my record. I get an email from him yesterday saying "I'll be in Canada next year, I'll cash it then". Now I have to order a duplicate money order and hope he hasn't cashed it or I'm out around $20 and a dope record. And to boot he got pissed when I gave him a negative rating.

Again, I only have advice for "next times". When ordering stuff online, by phone, or catalogue and you pay by credit card, most financial institutions offer protection if you don't receive anything. See where the proof of delivery comes in handy yet once again for a seller? I work for Visa, so I like to think I'm a smart online buyer :)


I wouldn't demand cash for local pick-up because I'm a wuss....I fall over when the wind blows :p~
 
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