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Drum & Bass vs. Jungle

Discussion in 'Jungle Room' started by PlatformShag, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. PlatformShag

    PlatformShag TRIBE Promoter

    okay... so what IS the difference.

    the way I see it, there are no wrong answers, only opinions. Since we are the co-creators of the experience, it is our opinions which shape the destiny of the artform.

    so far my experience has taught me that drum & bass is accessible to everyone, young and old, rich and poor.

    Jungle on the other hand, is elitist.

    1 Luv.
  2. twist

    twist TRIBE Member

    drum and bass came about when jungle moved away from the more organic ragga type stuff and became primarily 'drum and bass'. I spin jungle.
  3. Dr. Grinch

    Dr. Grinch TRIBE Member

    Pretty much sums it up.

    Jungle = Congo Natty
    Drum and Bass = Photek

    I like both. They go together like tomato soup and grilled cheese.
  4. jungleboy

    jungleboy TRIBE Promoter

    ...yeah it's all the same, don't get stuck wondering about names...
  5. OTIS

    OTIS TRIBE Member

    Politically incorrect response:
    Jungle wasn't white enough, so suburban chesters created DnB so that they could still "brok-out" yet sidestep the growing trend in thuggery associated with blackulated white kid music.

    British response:
    Aw dees american wankas tink they run tings when we create the sound, we keep it real, an iff it aint 'vented in da uk, we well be blooty taggin UK ontah it's name when it gets heah, soatv'e like a genre annexing.. it ensures da UK flava keeps da rank where it b'longs, yea?!

    American response:

    Torontonian response:
    Well drum and bass and jungle, as far as musical elements go, are almost inversely proportional to eachother, yet still retain the familiar qualities that transcend the barriers that the genre tag tends to encapsulate musical styles with. This unique element is what the essence behind both subgenres is. You'd have to be a geek not to hear it, or something.

    Montrealian response:
    What's drum & bass... does it have ragga vocals?

    Politically correct response:
    The key purveyors of jungle in the mid 90's were growing uncomfortable with the increasing almost mainstream poluarity behind the ragga & jump-up elelmets associated with the genre they loved. So, to prevent the inevitable pigeonholing of the genre as being lyrical heavy ragga bouncy stuff, they created the term Drum & Bass to separate from all that and concentrated on pushing the more deeper lyric-free elements of jungle, simpifying the beats into varying 2-steps, and thus making it more dancable & uniquely different. The simplified beats also enabled the genre to get faster BPM wise, so you can kinda separate the two subgenres by BPM: jungle sits around 165 at it's fastest and DnB sitts at around 170-180.
  6. Eccentric (LRG)

    Eccentric (LRG) TRIBE Member


  7. CIRCE (Sir C)

    CIRCE (Sir C) TRIBE Member

    One is founded in pseudo-intellectual elitism; the other in testosterone driven pubesence :p

    I'm a dnb snob ;) IMHO Jungle is less "accesible" but that doesn't make it elitist...dnb has more artistic pretense so it is elitist.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2003
  8. OTIS

    OTIS TRIBE Member

    That's weird, you arent the first person I heard that from..
    Not trying to assume anything here but I've noticed that the whole jungle being inaccessible thing is an opinion of those who came around when DnB was in full swing.

    Jungle being pseudo-intellectual elitist couldn't be further from the truth. If anything the DNB scene tends to be less inclusive as a whole, but maybe that's just cuz when Jungle was in full swing it was still the golden days of rave. Now all forms of electronic tend to cater to niche markets.
  9. OTIS

    OTIS TRIBE Member

    p.s. I may have misinterpreted what you wrote so please clarify if I did.
  10. CIRCE (Sir C)

    CIRCE (Sir C) TRIBE Member

    ^^^that's what I meant
    DnB = pretentious artistic elitism
    Jungle = testosterone driven elitism

    Both are inaccessible in their own ways
  11. CIRCE (Sir C)

    CIRCE (Sir C) TRIBE Member

    in my experience, these subgenres seem pretty age/gender/race stratified as well...

    Jungle...18-25 (about 80% white males)
    DnB...21+ (about 70% racially diverse females)

    This is just my opinion based on what I see when I play out (vocal/jazzy dnb)
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2003
  12. AVE

    AVE TRIBE Member

    ^^hey, i still haven't gotten your disc

    anxiously waiting:)
  13. twist

    twist TRIBE Member

    I definitely concur with this. But as far as being inaccesible... FUCK THAT SHIT. If it's not a junglist I'm gonna make it as... I'm gona be a fucking rapist in a Jason mask. As long as your drunk enough anything is possible.
  14. CIRCE (Sir C)

    CIRCE (Sir C) TRIBE Member

    ^^^LOL no dis bruvah but you sort of proved my point...like Jungle do ya? :p Perhaps inaccessible is the wrong word...alienating?
  15. Eccentric (LRG)

    Eccentric (LRG) TRIBE Member

    I <3 DnB..
    Have for a good while now.

    Drum and Bass just sounds more Intelligent to me.
  16. twist

    twist TRIBE Member

    It's definitely the crowd that each attracts that seems to define the music. I get just as creeped out by the no rhythm rewind sean john du rug thugs as the next guy. I also find the whole elitist standing in a little pack of important djs and hot chicks (who profess to be the true supporters... but johnny ecko dnaces more than you.... even though I wish he'd stop flailing his legs aboot. Oh wait I think he's breaking. Wow look at hime go. Jesus buddy I haven't seen uprock that good since... a friday at Plastique. Get the fuck out of my face, I wanna bounce. I just like getting rowdy.
  17. CIRCE (Sir C)

    CIRCE (Sir C) TRIBE Member

    Seen...that's a less value-laden way to differentiate; DnB tries to appeal to emotional "head" spaces, whereas Jungle is more about physical "body" response....?
  18. PlatformShag

    PlatformShag TRIBE Promoter

    echo this idea.

    Jungle...18-25 (about 80% white males)
    DnB...21+ (about 70% racially diverse females)

    really diggin this description and I've noticed a similar trend.

    maybe because women mature faster than men, they can leave the wannabe thug exterior behind and be true to themselves and each other. I feel they realize it's about the music and not the image, and still look amazing doing it.

    good perspectives people. Anyone deny that they're different? Can these words be freely interchangable anymore?
  19. evil homer

    evil homer TRIBE Member

    I don't think that the criteria for distinguishing can come from the crowd dynamics. If we are to differentiate Jungle from DnB then the necessary/sufficient conditions ought to stem from the music, and not the people who go out to hear it.

    Having said that, if two different strains of music pull out two markedly different crowds then it stands to reason that there is some recognizable difference between those two musical strains.

    I dont think that that is the case however and I now use the terms interchangeably. Perhaps when the techstep shift (and backlash) came around then those terms could distinguish the earlier slower more organic sounds form the current darker colder harder sounds. But those divisions just do not seem to apply anymore ie. for the past 2-3 years.

    There are too many platipuses ie. cases which straddle the line, too many points in between
    (for those who don't know, the platipus fucks up the so-called kingdom classifications of mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian &c. This is because the platipus satisifies all the conditions for being a mammal, as well as all of the conditions for being an amphibian)
    Likewise, there is way too much music coming out nowadays which could easily be argued as either DnB or Jungle - there is no firm footing on which to stand here. It makes no sense (analytically) to say that a tune is jungle, but not drum and bass.

    Now, it seems that whichever term you use says more about you than it does about the music.
  20. terrawrist III

    terrawrist III TRIBE Member

    or mustard and ice cream depending on mood;)

    drum and bass is the music and jungle is the scene as a whole...the culture itself is regarded as jungle...it sucks because it's a tag that has loads of uneeded stereotypes like thugginess and MC gibberish...

    personally, I can do without most of the "jungle" aspect of the music but take since nothing will change for the better I have to live with it
  21. SHOGUN


    Whattup terrawrist! it's your adopted older bro!

    aight, let's start this.....

    Well said...here's my opinion. I've been listening to this music for years (Feel like an old DnB head!) and the way I see it is the same way I see Techno & DnB as electronic music.

    I feel that Jungle music fit's within the larger DnB spectrum this way, that it is a form of DnB but not indicative of the whole genre.

    As far as differences in the sounds or the crowds, this could be attributed to so many different factors that it may not be worth exploring. It depends upon our individual perspectives.

    I think this pretty much sums up my opinion.
  22. lok

    lok TRIBE Member

    Would it be safe to say that jungle is more urban, while DnB is more technical?

    Freaky Flow vs. Total Science
  23. shylock_one

    shylock_one TRIBE Member

    [Chris Rock] I love dn'b but I hate jungle![/Chris Rock]
  24. terrawrist III

    terrawrist III TRIBE Member

    yeah...definetly, like i said DnB is the music and jungle is the aesthetic..it's that simple
  25. shylock_one

    shylock_one TRIBE Member

    Sorry bad joke.

    I do like that different crowd definition that Syrum brought up. I've never heard it summed up like that before. Generally I'd have to agree with you (as a rule of thumb, not written in stone) but I think it's more to do with the danceability of dnb. I find jungle to be too 'trancey' at times and it's difficult for me to find a groove to dance to.

    I've also thought of jungle as the heavy metal of electronic music. It doesn't hold a lot of appeal for most people but it has very loyal fans.

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