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Downtown car charge urged

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
Downtown car charge urged
Cars not charged enough given pollution they cause, minister adds


CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA - In what could be seen as a hint at increased gasoline taxes, Environment Minister David Anderson says motorists are not being charged enough given the pollution they cause.

He also suggested in an interview that Canadian cities should consider the example of London, England, which charges motorists for driving in the downtown core.

Anderson said he doesn't know whether Finance Minister Ralph Goodale will raise gasoline taxes but noted that Canada has among the lowest gas taxes in the world.

"When you start talking about external costs (of vehicle pollution), and you start funding cities with a gasoline tax . . . you've got an interesting issue for Mr. Goodale."

In this week's throne speech, the government reaffirmed its commitment to the Kyoto protocol, which will require reduced use of fossil fuels. It also promised to provide new revenues for cities.

Environmentalists have long argued for a "carbon tax" on fossil fuels to encourage conservation, but Anderson said he did not know whether that is being considered.

"I am not counting on a carbon tax. That said, we have some of the lowest excise taxes on gasoline in the world."

Anderson, one of the few ministers from Jean Chrétien's cabinet to survive in the same portfolio under Prime Minister Paul Martin, said it will be difficult to fund the new cities agenda without either raising taxes or cutting spending in other areas of government.

He suggested that spending cuts are the less likely option and emphasized that motorists and car manufacturers are not paying for the full cost of the pollution they cause.

"What are those cars doing? They are destroying a common property resource, namely the atmosphere. They are creating a major problem and they're not charged for that.

"It's a bit like the old days. An industry thought it could belch out black smoke and cover all the housewives' laundry with soot. It didn't matter if the vegetation died in the farmers' fields 50 miles away.

"That wasn't their worry, it was an external cost, other people bore it."

He suggested municipalities should consider measures to coax people from cars into public transit.

"We're going to have to do what Ken Livingston did in the City of London," said Anderson, referring to the mayor who last year imposed fees on cars entering the centre of the British capital.

Anderson said the number of truck deliveries in London went up 40 per cent the first day after the charge was imposed, due to reduced congestion.

As a federal minister, Anderson has no authority over municipal policies but he said Ottawa's new focus on cities creates an opportunity for collaboration with cities on environmental issues.

"I think we do have to work with the cities and when it comes to vehicles I think we're going to have a lot of discussions on what is possible to make a more efficient system."


http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/c...998&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037

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NOW!
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Boss Hog
"What are those cars doing? They are destroying a common property resource, namely the atmosphere. They are creating a major problem and they're not charged for that.

"It's a bit like the old days. An industry thought it could belch out black smoke and cover all the housewives' laundry with soot. It didn't matter if the vegetation died in the farmers' fields 50 miles away.

"That wasn't their worry, it was an external cost, other people bore it."


so true for so many things.
 

Lurker

TRIBE Member
While I agree that commuters coming into the core are casuing a lot of problems with traffic, smog etc., what allowances could be made for the people who live downtown and work outside of the core?

I'd love to be able to park my car except for when I need to go out of town, but I can't part with the extra hour and a half that it would cost me to take the bus to/from Brampton everyday.

There has to be a better way of getting commuters into the city in a cost effective and efficient way.

Paul
 

jockey slut

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Lurker
While I agree that commuters coming into the core are casuing a lot of problems with traffic, smog etc., what allowances could be made for the people who live downtown and work outside of the core?

I'd love to be able to park my car except for when I need to go out of town, but I can't part with the extra hour and a half that it would cost me to take the bus to/from Brampton everyday.

There has to be a better way of getting commuters into the city in a cost effective and efficient way.

Paul

GO trains
VIA rail
TTC
car pooling

yet there is an entire division of York University dedicated to watching the incoming/outgoing flow of traffic, vehicular based for the most part

last i checked, 400 and 401 are the two most travelled highways in north america or potentially the world, and it has to do with cross continental traffic i beleive, ill see if i can go and find the link

but man, when there is traffic from 6 am - 8 pm

14 hrs, where you can never be sure of how bad its going to be, and then lets also take a look at thurs,fri, and sat night in the downtown core

fookin cars are worse than the gino's and gina's driving them

-jybot

p.s. RICHMOND ST CLUB CENTRAL ANYONE
 

defazman

TRIBE Member
shut up you damned hippies. How am I supposed to afford my Lexus SUV when they keep increasing gas prices and start using photo radar again?
 
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Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Boss Hog
Anderson said the number of truck deliveries in London went up 40 per cent the first day after the charge was imposed, due to reduced congestion.

2 steps forward, 1 step back.

This idea is fine and dandy, except people already pay a fee for parking, which is kind of like 'user fee' or toll or whatever. Traffic and parking are punishment enough if you are crazy enough coming downtown in your car. And downtown businesses may suffer because people may not want the hassle of paying an extra fee.
 

lucky1

TRIBE Member
Parking is the price you pay for the convenience of driving. That goes into a capitalist's pocket and is no way "punishment enough already".

I ride my bike to commute in the summer and the traffic and fumes from all the single drivers sitting in their air conditioned cars is pretty awful. Not to mention how upset people get because I'm riding my bike in the right lane and they can't pass the steetcar. I've had people try and run me off the rode, get out of their cars to yell at me, and not to mention the idiots who hit me with thier car.

I think this would be a step in the right direction .
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
'bout freaking time people started taking into account the environmental burden of their actions, and are finally being charged appropriately for it.
 

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
I would support this ONLY if all the money went toward building a PROPER subway system.

Fucking Harris' first step when he got the power was to cut the east/west line to go to York U.

We need subways, and a fucking lot of them. They are quick, convenient, and the only way to cut back on people using their cars is have them.

Most subway users are people who live really close to a station, because let's face it, the buses really fucking suck.
 
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Hi i'm God

TRIBE Member
:rolleyes: If you going to compare us to other cities, like London especially, get our transit system running half as well as thiers does. Thiers goes EVERYwhere.
 

Lurker

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Hi i'm God
:rolleyes: If you going to compare us to other cities, like London especially, get our transit system running half as well as thiers does. Thiers goes EVERYwhere.


Exactly. Then add a half decent commuter train system and we're set. I'd be more than happy to take a train to brampton if it were cheaper than my car and I wasn't at risk of missing the ONE train back into the city at night.
 

stir-fry

TRIBE Member
Gotta love capitilism..

increased pollution = increased income for the government.

is that income going to go directly into paying for the "sky brushes" that will magically sweep the pollution out of the air above ontario?? probably not.
 
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Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
I would support this ONLY if all the money went toward building a PROPER subway system.

Fucking Harris' first step when he got the power was to cut the east/west line to go to York U.

We need subways, and a fucking lot of them. They are quick, convenient, and the only way to cut back on people using their cars is have them.

Most subway users are people who live really close to a station, because let's face it, the buses really fucking suck.



Definitely.
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
I'm wondering if people who live in the city will be charged with getting in/out.

I'm also wondering if there will be increased fines on industry for their environmental conduct. It's one thing to keep fleecing drivers, but it's another to do nothing about destructive industry.
 

lucky1

TRIBE Member
RE: the london subway or "tube"

THe only thing their subway has on Toronto is the it goes to a lot more areas (mostly the whole city)

But Toronto's is cleaner, Toronto's is airconditioned, Toronto subway cars are a lot bigger. The cars on the tube are smaller than the average toronto bus, and you can't bring strollers on it because they won't fit.

Alos when I was in Londo the escalators were chronically broken down and we had to walk down huge winding staircases.
 

Dr Funk MD

TRIBE Promoter
If you want to make some real change in traffic congestion the TTC needs to rethink it's purpose. Here's what I'd do:

- The biggest mistake that the TTC ever did was to charge a fee to park in their lots. If you want to get people out of their cars then let them park for free at the outskirts of the city. Free parking + $4.50 return trip on the subway is much cheeper then $25 parking everyday down town.
- Cut the price of a metro pass in half. This is the only city in Canada where the bus pass isn't a great deal. You have to use the pass 1.5 times a day for the entire month to make it worth it. That's retarded. Make it cheeper and students and part time workers will spend $50 on transit every month rather then spreading it out over the month. It's a rule of business that a quick nickle is better then a slow dime.
- The province and the city are missing a very important way of getting in peoples faces about transit. Instead of adding lanes to the 404, 400, and 401 rip up a few and put commuter a rail system right up the middle of it. When you're stuck in gridlock for the 5 time this week and you see a train zipping past you it would really drive the point home don't you think?
 

JMan

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
I would support this ONLY if all the money went toward building a PROPER subway system.

Fucking Harris' first step when he got the power was to cut the east/west line to go to York U.

We need subways, and a fucking lot of them. They are quick, convenient, and the only way to cut back on people using their cars is have them.

Most subway users are people who live really close to a station, because let's face it, the buses really fucking suck.

YES. And I also agree with Lucky1 that user-fee's for driving should go to the government, not just the business people.
 
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JMan

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by stir-fry
Gotta love capitilism..

increased pollution = increased income for the government.

is that income going to go directly into paying for the "sky brushes" that will magically sweep the pollution out of the air above ontario?? probably not.

I don't think the problem is the government, or capitalism - like in every case, it's everyday people... most of whom just don't consider the ramifications of their actions. We chalk up our decisions to factors that apparently aren't under our control, when really they are in most cases.

I think people need to get into the habit of considering whether the world could sustain itself if EVERY single person on earth lived the same way we do.

J
 

Lurker

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Dr Funk MD
If you want to make some real change in traffic congestion the TTC needs to rethink it's purpose. Here's what I'd do:

- The province and the city are missing a very important way of getting in peoples faces about transit. Instead of adding lanes to the 404, 400, and 401 rip up a few and put commuter a rail system right up the middle of it. When you're stuck in gridlock for the 5 time this week and you see a train zipping past you it would really drive the point home don't you think?

There's an ad campaign is already in practice along Allen Road south of the 401 where the traffic is horrid and the subway flies past every couple minutes.

I really like this idea. Make the left-hand lane the rail line and make some type of platform at the overpasses like along Allen rd.

Paul
 

SlipperyPete

TRIBE Member
$0.001 cents per litre hidden tax on gas = shitloads of money that could be put into transit + roads + monorail or whatever else they want.

if the three levels of government could agree on how to divvy it up.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Dr Funk MD
- Cut the price of a metro pass in half. This is the only city in Canada where the bus pass isn't a great deal. You have to use the pass 1.5 times a day for the entire month to make it worth it. That's retarded. Make it cheeper and students and part time workers will spend $50 on transit every month rather then spreading it out over the month. It's a rule of business that a quick nickle is better then a slow dime.

I don't know about a 50 buck pass... that's seriously cheap. I think the TTC would need a pretty huge subsidy increase to float that.

I do agree that the silly things costs too much. I live 30 seconds away from a station and I don't have a drivers license. Somehow, it still doesn't make sense for me to buy a pass. That's pretty messed up.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Downtown car charge urged

Originally posted by Littlest Hobo
2 steps forward, 1 step back.

This idea is fine and dandy, except people already pay a fee for parking, which is kind of like 'user fee' or toll or whatever. Traffic and parking are punishment enough if you are crazy enough coming downtown in your car. And downtown businesses may suffer because people may not want the hassle of paying an extra fee.

LOL

Whatever dude.

Your comment reminds me of a drunk's rambling recently overheard on our glorious TTC....

"...the fuckin eskimos are worse then the fuckin indians.... they all fuckin need a fuckin serious fuckin reality check... fucking eskimos...."

Where wiser words ever spoken?
 
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