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Doug Ford, #jail2023

alexd

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
wickedken said:
The obvious question is that why didn't he "write the meaning" into the law when he had the chance? This would have completely avoided any ambiguity and need for interpretation from judges and tribe. Are we supposed to take his word on this now and disregard the possibility that decades of life would have changed the meaning for Davis? These "understandings" need to be written down to avoid the misuse we are seeing.
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Isn't all law about trying to determine meaning?
 
praktik

praktik

TRIBE Member
alexd said:
Isn't all law about trying to determine meaning?
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There's that, there's also all the quotes from all his contemporaries who shared his view.

Davis wasn't saying anything new, he was repeating what was the consensus opinion of everyone who put it through.
 
Bernnie Federko

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
wickedken said:
The obvious question is that why didn't he "write the meaning" into the law when he had the chance? This would have completely avoided any ambiguity and need for interpretation from judges and tribe. Are we supposed to take his word on this now and disregard the possibility that decades of life would have changed the meaning for Davis? These "understandings" need to be written down to avoid the misuse we are seeing.
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Nah, the obvious question is Why you still a shill for the PC party

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praktik

praktik

TRIBE Member
alexd said:
Leave it to politicians to fuck up democracy.
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I think there's a subset we can look at as more likely to "fuck up" democracy - those politicians who adopt a style of "im not a typical politician" = more likely to fuck shit up
 
wickedken

wickedken

TRIBE Member
praktik said:
There's that, there's also all the quotes from all his contemporaries who shared his view.

Davis wasn't saying anything new, he was repeating what was the consensus opinion of everyone who put it through.
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Right... so the "consensus" just didn't get recorded into the text?
 
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praktik

praktik

TRIBE Member
wickedken said:
Right... so the "consensus" just didn't get recorded into the text?
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The text is as written, most people who were behind it are still alive

This isnt a mystery, as to what the consenus on S33 was.

Dont be obtuse. Everyone thought it would be so politically costly it would almost never be used, but probably didnt count on authoritarian/tribal followers not putting a penalty on a leader who used it. No one is going to add to a legal mechanism, in the text, opinions on future political reception to use of s33.

The PC Massiv and Dougie together threw a spanner in the works - people weren't counting on the unthinking, slavish and tribal following of a political vandal
 
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wickedken

wickedken

TRIBE Member
alexd said:
Isn't all law about trying to determine meaning?
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Judges determine the meaning. The law is the fact they interpret and apply to the particular situation. They can get it wrong, as judges are overturned all the time by higher courts. The existence of higher courts acknowledges that judges can make mistakes.

Most of the press surrounding this Dougie incident is just click bait and getting people like Bernie all uppity and emotional like any good faux lib tends to do.
 
wickedken

wickedken

TRIBE Member
praktik said:
The text is as written, most people who were behind it are still alive

This isnt a mystery, as to what the consenus on S33 was.

Dont be obtuse. Everyone thought it would be so politically costly it would almost never be used, but probably didnt count on authoritarian/tribal followers not putting a penalty on a leader who used it. No one is going to add to a legal mechanism, in the text, opinions on future political reception to use of s33.

The PC Massiv and Dougie together threw a spanner in the works - people weren't counting on the unthinking, slavish and tribal following of a political vandal
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The fact is, from what I've seen, those guys had to put in this clause otherwise the Charter would not have been agreed to by all the provinces. I'm not sure why you're so surprised at the improper use of law since you've made note of other examples, like different penalties for crack vs power cocaine.
 
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Bernnie Federko

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
So Bill Davis, Mike Harris, Brian Mulroney, Chretien, Roy Romanow, the nations mayors, as well as amnesty international unite and deride the move. But you and doug ford's crack team of back room boys think the judiciary and the press' coverage are overstepping? What??


think doug's gonna reduce the cost of a metropass for you anytime soon? widen the tax base and improve social services? build out transit? improve infrastructure? do anything that remotely has a positive impact on your life?
 
praktik

praktik

TRIBE Member
wickedken said:
The fact is, from what I've seen, those guys had to put in this clause otherwise the Charter would not have been agreed to by all the provinces. I'm not sure why you're so surprised at the improper use of law since you've made note of other examples, like different penalties for crack vs power cocaine.
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Dont move the goalposts, question is regard to intent of the use of s33

Ford is clearly offside from the spirit of S33 if not the letter, and thats not a controversial opinion, its consensus opinion in Canadian political history.

Disparity of cocaine vs crack sentencing is apples and oranges, and actually the letter of the law specified higher mandatory minimums for crack vs cocaine powder - so my issue with equality of justice there in written law (and worse in American law) is entirely distinct from the uniquely canadian question of when it is ok to use s33. Not sure why you'd even bring that up or why you're bothering to question something That is Known: S33 wasnt meant to be used whenever a court rules the way you dont like
 
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KickIT

KickIT

TRIBE Member
Friends. I hope Toronto can teach Ford Nation a lesson by getting to the polls and making sure his goon squad starting with Mammolitti are kept off the next council.
 
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