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does being a good catholic make you a homophobe?

Rosey

TRIBE Member
so here's one for all you people who support catholicism. what do you think of gays? would you be happier if they just disappeared? do think that AIDS is god's way of punishing them? do you want them and their sinful ways destroyed?

i'm just suprised at how hard the auto workers seem to be 'reaching for the rainbow'. good for them :D

from canoe

Gay-date bid sparks turmoil

Board won't debate decision that bars student's friend
By DICK CHAPMAN-- Sun Media


OSHAWA, Ontario -- A Durham Catholic school board meeting degenerated into turmoil last night when the board refused to discuss gay student Marc Hall's bid to bring his boyfriend to the school prom.

Durham Regional Police officers were called to the meeting by board chairman Mary Ann Martin after trustees called a recess and retired for a private discussion when the meeting grew tumultuous.

Martin refused to hear any discussion of Hall's attempt to attend the May event with a 21-year-old boyfriend.

The Grade-12 student at Monsignor John Pereyma Catholic Secondary School in Oshawa said after the meeting he will consult a lawyer today about launching a human rights complaint against the board.

"I'm taking legal action now -- lawyers, human rights commission, whatever I can do," said Hall, 17.

"I don't want this to happen to anyone else. I'm trying to fight this for everybody else, not just for myself."

After the meeting, Martin told a horde of media reporters that "the Catholic faith is saying, we open our arms to anyone, of any background, whatever -- homosexuals, whatever."

But, she added: "We do not accept the lifestyle of a homosexual ... nor do we allow courting."

Martin also said there could have been an issue of age since a 21-year-old female would not be allowed to attend with Hall either.

Hall, however, has argued that the board has been inconsistent in its application of Catholic doctrine since it allowed a pregnant teen to attend last year's prom, despite the fact that it opposes premarital sex.

Mike Shields, president of Canadian Auto Workers Local 22, disrupted the proceedings after hearing Martin say there would be no discussion since the required seven-days notice had not been given.

However, Martin admitted that she would not allow discussion of the issue even if the notice is given for the next meeting on April 10.

Shields immediately rose and demanded the trustees deal with the issue. Many of about 75 people in attendance also began clamouring for a discussion. Martin then called a five-minute recess and the trustees left the room.

Three police cruisers arrived about 20 minutes later.

A couple of people quoted Catholic dogma and scripture to support Hall.

"Homosexuals should not be persecuted. They should be treated as human beings," Mike Burley, a media relations officer for Interlinks Youth, shouted at Martin
from the star but star links never work.
Police remove gay student's supporter
Durham Catholic board won't discuss gay date to prom
Stan Josey
DURHAM REGION BUREAU CHIEF


EMOTIONAL MEETING: The public, including supporters of gay student Marc Hall, 17, right, listen as Mike Shields of Canadian Auto Workers addresses Durham Catholic school board last night.
Police escorted the president of Canada's largest union local from a Durham Catholic District School Board meeting when he came to the defence of a 17-year-old gay student who has been told he cannot take his boyfriend to his high school prom.

A visibly upset Mike Shields, president of Local 222 of the Canadian Auto Workers, stood up last night and demanded that the student, Marc Hall, be allowed to speak after board chair Mary Ann Martin said the matter was not on the agenda for the meeting.

"This young man has a right to speak," Shields shouted as he made his way to the front of the room. "Your board created this situation and you are obliged to hear him speak."

Martin then told Shields he was disrupting the meeting and asked him to be quiet or she would call an adjournment. Shields, however, persisted, arguing "this is not a matter of religion, just a guy wanting to have fun at a school dance."

Martin then adjourned the meeting and ushered trustees and visiting Toronto Auxiliary Bishop John Anthony Boissoneau out of the meeting hall.

Shields then continued to talk to about 100 supporters of the young man in the centre of the hall, saying his union is opposed to all types of discrimination in the workplace and anywhere else. The union, he said, has written a letter to the board asking that the decision to ban Hall from taking a same-sex date to the May 10 prom at Oshawa's Monsignor John Pereyma high school be reversed.

The union leader called the board's action a black eye on both Oshawa and the Catholic church.

During this time, board security officers asked Shields to leave. When he refused, they left and called police.

After chatting with police, Shields left the board property and told reporters, "I think I made my point, I don't want to become the issue here."

Hall's parents, Audy and Emily, were at the meeting to support their son. "We believe he is a victim of discrimination. We just want our son to be able to live his life as a normal person," Hall's father said.

The official reason for not allowing Hall to speak was that the group did not give the necessary seven days' notice to be included as a delegation on the regular board meeting agenda. But in an interview, Martin said there was nothing to discuss with Hall and his supporters.

"We have the right in the Catholic school system to protect our rights and beliefs," she said.

After Shields' departure, Martin reconvened the board meeting without allowing Hall or his supporters to speak.

When the meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m., school board communications director Grant Andrews huddled with Hall and his supporters, and simply reaffirmed the earlier decision that allowing an openly gay couple at a school-sponsored function was against the teachings of the Catholic church on "homosexual practices" and contravened school board policy.

In an interview, Hall said he was "overwhelmed" with the support from the community. He called the board's handling of the issue "frustrating" and said he plans to seek legal advice to see if there is a way to force the board to allow him to attend the prom with the date of his choice.

While the Catholic Church and separate school system do not discriminate against gays, Martin said "the homosexual lifestyle goes against the teachings of the church and we support that."

She said dating and courting are considered to be matters of lifestyle and are "something we don't accept or condone."

Martin said the decision made by Pereyma principal Michael Powers not to allow a gay couple at the prom is supported "100 per cent by all trustees," and will not be reconsidered under any circumstances.

No amount of support for the honours Grade 12 student will change their minds, she said.

"We are not in a popularity contest here."

Martin noted the school board and trustees have received "tremendous support" for their stand via fax and e-mail, some from as far away as England.

"Catholics and others in the community understand that we are just supporting the basic beliefs of the Catholic church."

Hall said he believes it would not be a contravention of church teachings to be allowed to bring his 21-year-old boyfriend to the prom.

His understanding of Catholic teaching is that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual, but that the church is opposed to gay sex.

"I only plan on dancing with my date, not having sex at the prom," Hall said.

He said he feels he has to fight the ruling by his school for his sake and for the sake of all other gay students in Catholic schools.

Response to a Web site he and his friends set up on the issue has been "overwhelming," said supporter Lance Ryan, an 18-year-old student at Oshawa's Donovan Collegiate.

There have been more than 5,000 hits on the site since it was set up a week ago, most of them supporting Hall's right to take a gay date to the prom.

Many of the e-mails are from Catholic gay students, who said they did not take their same-sex partners to their school prom but wish they could have.

The gay issue aside, Martin said she would not allow her 17-year-old daughter to take a 21-year-old man as her guest to a Grade 12 high-school prom.

"That's just too much of an age difference at this stage."

She said she feels "compassion" for Hall because "this has turned into a much larger issue than his prom date."

Shields' Local 222 has 23,000 members in the Oshawa area, working at General Motors and its feeder plants.
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
are good catholics supposed to hate people that have pre-marital sex too?

the vatican has so much money, they should hire a PR firm.
 

Rosey

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Pyrovitae
sheeee rosey, one would think you have "issues" with catholicism or sumptin'.;)

*muah*
~N
[this is a joke]
at least i didn't use my original thread title: "catholics are swastika loving, faggot hangin', pig fuckers but they get along well with negroes"
[/this is a joke]

^^^^obviously said with tongue fully in cheek, mmmmkay?
 
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futronic

TRIBE Member
If you're Catholic, it doesn't mean you have to agree 100% with everything the Church preaches. I mean, I believe that you have the right to love and have sex with whoever you want, be it same or opposite sex. I also believe in using condoms and the right to choice for abortion. I think organized religion should be more of a "guide" than the be all and end all.

P.S. ... This is where God strikes me down with lightning.

-- Jay aka Fut
 

futronic

TRIBE Member
As a further note, we were talking about this in my sexual diversity class a couple weeks ago ... Apparently the Church doesn't have anything against homosexual thoughts; it has a problem with the actions.

You wanna talk about opening a can of worms ...

-- Jay aka Fut
 

matty

TRIBE Member
I'm not sure about the homophobe thing, but being a catholic priest significantly increases your chances of being a pedophile.
 

-Mercury-

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by futronic
If you're Catholic, it doesn't mean you have to agree 100% with everything the Church preaches.

Oh, so you can just pick and choose what parts of the religion you wish to practice.....hmm.

In that case, I'm definatly Satanic....'cept, I don't believe in killing/hurting other people (or animals) and anything else that I don't really like.
But I still get to wear the cool black clothes. :rolleyes:

tony
 
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Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
As I mentioned before, Catholicism is a coherent faith.
In regards to gay people, Catholic dogma is quite officially and explicitly and publicy stated:

2358 From the Catechism:
"The number of men and women who have deep seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."
So it is clear that the trustees/principals of that school are violating the Church's teachings in this issue. Gee what's new.

Catholicism basically says that homosexual sex is wrong the same way that pedophilia is wrong or that sex with animals is wrong or whatever; but homosexuals themselves are just peachy. Just as long as they don't actually fuck. So can you be Catholic and gay? Definitely. Can you be Catholic and gay and happy? Definitely not.

My advice to the boy who wants to bring his BF to the dance is to leave Catholicism. THe principle and trustees are probably going on the working assumption that it is not up to them to change or mess around with millenia old doctrine, even if they personally disagree with it.

Catholicism is highly entrenched in the 'sicut erat in principio, nunc est, et semper' mentality, which, if you are going to believe in a God in the first place, makes perfect sense. Problem is that Catholic doctrine, in its desperate attempts to be normative and idealistic, are making themselves irrelevent in the public eye.

Which is fine by me.

Catholicism, like any religion or philosophy, is a set of beliefs that one either chooses to adopt or chooses to ignore. It has no obligation to adjust to current social trends, and would only do so if it's real goal (like many liberal protestant churches) is to be little more than a feel-good adult social club. So really, my criticism, as someone who has been brought up Catholic, has slept with my share of boys and enjoyed it and will do it again, is to lay fault not with the Church, whose doctrines are explicit, but with that boy for bothering to continue to associate with a philosophy that is clearly not his.

A parrallel are the periodic posts to AlexD about some user finding the board crappy in one way or another. When you read a post like this, do you:
1. Attack AlexD for not making his board the way some users want it
2. Tell that user to find a different board

same shit.

-jM
A&D
 

Rosey

TRIBE Member
^^^^ screw you! you well-read, reasonable bastard!
i'm trying to start a fight here and waltz right in and screw it up with your logic and your information.
jeez! :mad:
 
G

Guest

Guest
Rosey you are such a moron.
Why don't you shut the hell up!
If you want to stick your tongue up another girls ass thats your problem and none of my business.
But don't come on here and bitch about a religion just because they don't agree with it.
There are rules everywhere you go some people should just learn to live with it.
Next you will be bitching that a daughter and father in love can't go to the prom.
Or farmer bob can't take the love of his life beatrice the cow to the prom.
 
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matty

TRIBE Member
This just in....

POLICE MUST NOTIFY RESIDENTS WHEN
CATHOLIC CHURCH MOVES INTO NEIGHBORHOOD

Controversial "Egan's Law" Expected to Gain Widespread Support

Trenton, N.J. (SatireWire.com) — Under a new law designed to protect minors, local police departments will now be required to inform residents any time a known Roman Catholic church moves into their neighborhood.

New Jersey State Senate debating Egan's Law
The law also mandates that Catholic churches register with authorities, wear electronic monitoring devices, and be prohibited from moving to within a half-mile radius of a school.

A follow-up to Megan's Law, enacted by New Jersey in 1994, the so-called "Egan's Law" is named for Cardinal Edward Egan of New York and Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston, who are both accused of covering up sexual abuse by priests under their authority. Like Megan's Law, Egan's Law is expected to spread quickly to other states, but for parents in towns across New Jersey, it's on the books none too soon.

"Last year, we discovered that a Catholic Church had been in our neighborhood for 30 years! And nobody told us!" said Ruth Harper of Redbrook, N.J. "My sons used to walk by that church every day on their way to school. Even now I shudder to think of what might have happened."

"I always told my kids to steer clear of that place," added neighbor Scott Carlyle. "But that's because there were a lot of strange people going in and out at odd hours, even at midnight on Saturdays. I was worried it was some kind of druggie hangout.

"To think the whole time it was a Roman Catholic Church. Now I know why they had all those stained glass windows —. so nobody could look in."

Critics, however, charge that Egan's Law is unconstitutional, specifically because it relies on religious profiling and is intended to safeguard only one segment of the population: young males. But State Sen. Carmela Truto, a Catholic who co-sponsored the bill, used church doctrine itself to prove only one segment needs protection.

"In the Catholic Church, after 2,000 years, Mary is still a Virgin," she said. "So clearly, they're not interested in girls."
http://www.satirewire.com/news/march02/egan.shtml
 

Rosey

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Smiley Jo
Uh, someone forgot their smiley???

Joanna
haha, no, pest really is that stupid. :)

a) i'm a guy
b) i'm straight - i just favour civil rights for all people, although i suppose i would tongue a girl's ass, if she had sryup.
c) you just equated homosexuality with incest and beastiality. what does that say about you?

peace
- rosey
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
Police remove gay student's supporter
Durham Catholic board won't discuss gay date to prom
Stan Josey
DURHAM REGION BUREAU CHIEF



Police escorted the president of Canada's largest union local from a Durham Catholic District School Board meeting when he came to the defence of a 17-year-old gay student who has been told he cannot take his boyfriend to his high school prom.

A visibly upset Mike Shields, president of Local 222 of the Canadian Auto Workers, stood up last night and demanded that the student, Marc Hall, be allowed to speak after board chair Mary Ann Martin said the matter was not on the agenda for the meeting.

"This young man has a right to speak," Shields shouted as he made his way to the front of the room. "Your board created this situation and you are obliged to hear him speak."

Martin then told Shields he was disrupting the meeting and asked him to be quiet or she would call an adjournment. Shields, however, persisted, arguing "this is not a matter of religion, just a guy wanting to have fun at a school dance."

Martin then adjourned the meeting and ushered trustees and visiting Toronto Auxiliary Bishop John Anthony Boissoneau out of the meeting hall.

Shields then continued to talk to about 100 supporters of the young man in the centre of the hall, saying his union is opposed to all types of discrimination in the workplace and anywhere else. The union, he said, has written a letter to the board asking that the decision to ban Hall from taking a same-sex date to the May 10 prom at Oshawa's Monsignor John Pereyma high school be reversed.

The union leader called the board's action a black eye on both Oshawa and the Catholic church.

During this time, board security officers asked Shields to leave. When he refused, they left and called police.

After chatting with police, Shields left the board property and told reporters, "I think I made my point, I don't want to become the issue here."

Hall's parents, Audy and Emily, were at the meeting to support their son. "We believe he is a victim of discrimination. We just want our son to be able to live his life as a normal person," Hall's father said.

The official reason for not allowing Hall to speak was that the group did not give the necessary seven days' notice to be included as a delegation on the regular board meeting agenda. But in an interview, Martin said there was nothing to discuss with Hall and his supporters.

"We have the right in the Catholic school system to protect our rights and beliefs," she said.

After Shields' departure, Martin reconvened the board meeting without allowing Hall or his supporters to speak.

When the meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m., school board communications director Grant Andrews huddled with Hall and his supporters, and simply reaffirmed the earlier decision that allowing an openly gay couple at a school-sponsored function was against the teachings of the Catholic church on "homosexual practices" and contravened school board policy.

In an interview, Hall said he was "overwhelmed" with the support from the community. He called the board's handling of the issue "frustrating" and said he plans to seek legal advice to see if there is a way to force the board to allow him to attend the prom with the date of his choice.

While the Catholic Church and separate school system do not discriminate against gays, Martin said "the homosexual lifestyle goes against the teachings of the church and we support that."

She said dating and courting are considered to be matters of lifestyle and are "something we don't accept or condone."

Martin said the decision made by Pereyma principal Michael Powers not to allow a gay couple at the prom is supported "100 per cent by all trustees," and will not be reconsidered under any circumstances.

No amount of support for the honours Grade 12 student will change their minds, she said.

"We are not in a popularity contest here."

Martin noted the school board and trustees have received "tremendous support" for their stand via fax and e-mail, some from as far away as England.

"Catholics and others in the community understand that we are just supporting the basic beliefs of the Catholic church."

Hall said he believes it would not be a contravention of church teachings to be allowed to bring his 21-year-old boyfriend to the prom.

His understanding of Catholic teaching is that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual, but that the church is opposed to gay sex.

"I only plan on dancing with my date, not having sex at the prom," Hall said.

He said he feels he has to fight the ruling by his school for his sake and for the sake of all other gay students in Catholic schools.

Response to a Web site he and his friends set up on the issue has been "overwhelming," said supporter Lance Ryan, an 18-year-old student at Oshawa's Donovan Collegiate.

There have been more than 5,000 hits on the site since it was set up a week ago, most of them supporting Hall's right to take a gay date to the prom.

Many of the e-mails are from Catholic gay students, who said they did not take their same-sex partners to their school prom but wish they could have.

The gay issue aside, Martin said she would not allow her 17-year-old daughter to take a 21-year-old man as her guest to a Grade 12 high-school prom.

"That's just too much of an age difference at this stage."

She said she feels "compassion" for Hall because "this has turned into a much larger issue than his prom date."

Shields' Local 222 has 23,000 members in the Oshawa area, working at General Motors and its feeder plants.
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
And on anoter note, please don't feed the Trolls (Pest).
It's not what he really thinks (bestiality and whatnot), he just types ignorant shit to get a rise out of people. The reason he never makes any sense and sounds like a complete moron is because he gets entertainment out of acting that way. Just ignore him and sooner or later he'll get bored here and find another message board.

Pete
 
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Rosey

TRIBE Member
But don't come on here and bitch about a religion just because they don't agree with it.
There are rules everywhere you go some people should just learn to live with it.
and yes pest, there are rules everywhere. the 'rules' of catholicism say that while homosexual sex acts are sinful, being homosexual is itself not sinful and is in fact a test from god. therefore, by refusing to even discuss the possibility of allowing the boy to attend the prom with his 'friend' they, the trustees of the catholic school board are breaking their own 'rules'. they are clearly showing that while they allow other 'sinners' (the pregnant girl) to attend school events, this boy may not, because he is gay. that is homophobia.

despite my attention-whoring thread title, i am aware that being catholic does not make one a homophobe. but the two often go hand in hand. i went to an all-male catholic high school, the homophobia that was rapant there was unbelievable.

let's not kid ourselves, celibate gay people are not the majority, therefore they are seen as sinners by staunch catholics. yet catholicism preaches acceptance and forgiveness. how much should religious freedom be used to justify hate?

catholic schools recieve public funding, should they then not be held to the same civil rights standards as other organizations?
 

Rosey

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Subsonic Chronic
And on anoter note, please don't feed the Trolls (Pest).
It's not what he really thinks (bestiality and whatnot), he just types ignorant shit to get a rise out of people. The reason he never makes any sense and sounds like a complete moron is because he gets entertainment out of acting that way. Just ignore him and sooner or later he'll get bored here and find another message board.

Pete
on a related note, i posted 2 articles, you just reposted the second one. :p :D
 
G

Guest

Guest
Originally posted by stir-fry
rosey is a dood
WOW! I didn't realize that!
I never thought any guy, gay or straight could be that much of a BITCH!
 
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