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Depression & Men

SubMissioN

TRIBE Member
Your wrong. Absolutely, totally, utterly wrong. Sorry.

A scientific causal relationship has never been proven. Besides it's logically impossible to do so.


Instead of quoting form the CAMH website, an institution that was formerly called the Clarke Institute. Clarke believed that mental illness had racial basis. He was worried that Italians were going pollute the Anglo gene pool. You know with their waving hands while talking and mouths full of spaghetti and swarthy complexions.

Check out the work of Peter Breggin. Especially his book Toxic Psychiatry
What i was talking about isn't about Logic, Its common sense and in most cases simple math.
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
I guess then CAMH is forever burdened in some peoples eyes until reparation is done somehow? No moving forward until some point when the racial past has been settled. Treatment of Bi Polar can be reasoned out by non chemical therapy. Thank you Tom Saskboy Cruise!
 

erika

TRIBE Member
Your wrong. Absolutely, totally, utterly wrong. Sorry.

A scientific causal relationship has never been proven. Besides it's logically impossible to do so.

Check out the work of Peter Breggin. Especially his book Toxic Psychiatry
Interesting if you google this guy; he's on a number of "quack" lists; there's even -gasp!- a facebook group about him being a quack.

Always the risk when you are rather extreme; there's probably some good to what he says, but perhaps to be taken with a grain of salt.

I found this woman's take on her own stuff pretty interesting (yes, it's a woman, and this is the guys' stuff forum, but it's on topic) Judith Lautner
 

saskboy

TRIBE Member
I guess then CAMH is forever burdened in some peoples eyes until reparation is done somehow? No moving forward until some point when the racial past has been settled. Treatment of Bi Polar can be reasoned out by non chemical therapy. Thank you Tom Saskboy Cruise!
Maybe I deserved the Cruise comment. I could have phrased things better.

I was just knocking the appeal to authority. I don't think these experts are anymore knowledgeable than the rest of us when it comes to the human mind. Especially when you consider their track record. The history of psychiatry is very telling as its true goals and objectives.

Interesting if you google this guy; he's on a number of "quack" lists; there's even -gasp!- a facebook group about him being a quack.

Always the risk when you are rather extreme; there's probably some good to what he says, but perhaps to be taken with a grain of salt.

I found this woman's take on her own stuff pretty interesting (yes, it's a woman, and this is the guys' stuff forum, but it's on topic) Judith Lautner
Considering him a quack is typical of the profession. Seligman and others received the same reception when he and others challenged the behaviourist position. A psychologist once attacked Seligman in the washroom at a professional conference.

It's an example of the Semmelweis_reflex

I find Breggin's argument very well reasoned and I've read criticisms of him. They all tend to be very vitriolic and ad hominem.

Psychiatry attracts a lot of loonies. The Swiss did a long term study on army recruits who were rejected for mental reasons. A disproportionate number later became shrinks.

These drugs are nothing more than chemical lobotomies. Take responsibility for your own spiritual growth. Don't leave things up to some professional who's only goal is personal status and money.
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
Maybe I deserved the Cruise comment. I could have phrased things better.

I was just knocking the appeal to authority. I don't think these experts are anymore knowledgeable than the rest of us when it comes to the human mind. Especially when you consider their track record. The history of psychiatry is very telling as its true goals and objectives.
you did.

and I whole heartedly believe you do not know as much about the chemical balance of the human body compared to some of the Professionals.
...
some people are unable to manage day to day without being medicated as part of their on going, multi disciplinary approach to therapy. some people don't get results on standard doses, typical approaches with meds. Individual results/treatments can and will vary.
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
not sure if i would discuss a personal problem as serious as depression on an internet message board, let alone with people i don't know. i think that's problem number one on a long list....
Why not? People should feel more open to express themselves. Part of depression is letting things ruminate.

My shrink says that I should definitely find more avenues to talk about depression but it's not easy because as a man, I feel guilty enough admitting it or having to seek help much less having a talk about it with any of my friends.

Maybe the internet creates a buffer for people to get stuff out because frankly, going to the shrink is not cheap.

But I can see your point because not everyone is going to be as caring online if it's this sea of faceless people. Honestly, I don't believe in trolling. If you're saying something shitty to someone online, that's definitely a facet of the poster's personality. And if we just assumed that everyone is an asshole inside, it's actually not that bad of a place to have some dialogue. Better than feeling totally alone. Some men can't even talk to their partners about depression or anxiety.
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
I knew when I created this thread it'd garner some jokers attention, because that's how some people react when another shares their feelings (Landsberg addresses this much better than I can in the article). And further, I didn't do it because I cared about the potential for a flame war (and I love a good FWar); I did it because I thought it was a worthwhile. After 3700+ views of said thread, I'd say I wasn't wrong.

People get sick all the time. That being a Man equates not talking about <insert illness here> is ridiculous. I'd say it takes a person of great character and strength to talk about it, especially when it pertains to their mental state, and not the other way around.
 
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MoFo

TRIBE Member
Ha. Try the world.

Every single person I know and every single person above 12 I've ever met would benefit from a good therapist. We live in a culture where dental checkups are suggested but you never hear people recommend anything for your brain other than school.

Even my therapists need therapy.

Maybe if we had more mental check-ups each year, we'd have a healthier society. We tend to go to shrinks when there's something's really wrong which is unfortunate.
 

wayne kenoff

TRIBE Member
Life's a bitch. And then you die.

Whether it's meds, therapy, exercise, talking with friends or random internet strangers, you have to find what works for you.

I have seen medication help a number of people. For me, regular exercise seems to be enough to stay on an even keel. But man o man I can recall some dark times. Life is seriously a bitch sometimes.
 

lok

TRIBE Member
Vitamin D. Get it. Take it every day for a year starting right now. It will change your life. 5000 IUs a day for the first year, then afterwards you can chill down to 2k. There is absolutely no way you are both a Canadian citizen and have adequate levels of vitamin D. Vitamin D production is limited per day so soon as you start missing days your level will always drop. Being outside every day in the summer will slightly elevate but then you get drilled by a long winter.

If you're actually depressed, take 10,000 IUs a day. Anything you don't readily absorb will be secreted and while it's true vitamin D can be toxic you'd have to ingest in the ~100,000 IUs a day range to start getting the negative side effects on any short term scale.
 
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sheik rock

TRIBE Member
Vitamin D. Get it. Take it every day for a year starting right now. It will change your life. 5000 IUs a day for the first year, then afterwards you can chill down to 2k. There is absolutely no way you are both a Canadian citizen and have adequate levels of vitamin D. Vitamin D production is limited per day so soon as you start missing days your level will always drop. Being outside every day in the summer will slightly elevate but then you get drilled by a long winter.

If you're actually depressed, take 10,000 IUs a day. Anything you don't readily absorb will be secreted and while it's true vitamin D can be toxic you'd have to ingest in the ~100,000 IUs a day range to start getting the negative side effects on any short term scale.
Vitamin D is fat soluble so don't just load up and assume it will work itself out. There are very basic tests you can do to measure your body's levels. Just do one, make sure you are low. Then start a strong regimen for 3 months and retest. Continue until you are hitting your recommended levels every test.
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
From Health Canada, who increased the recommended dietary allowance of vitamin D in Nov 2010:

The U.S. Institute of Medicine (IOM) released its report on the review of the Dietary Reference Intakes (DRIs) for vitamin D and calcium on November 30, 2010. The review was jointly commissioned and funded by the U.S. and Canadian governments.

The decision to commission the IOM review reflects the government's goal of ensuring that Canadians benefit from the most up to date health and nutritional advice.

The recommended amount of vitamin D per day has increased for everyone. But this does not mean that Canadians need to change their current food or supplement intakes. Based on Health Canada's preliminary analysis of Canadians' vitamin D blood levels, most are currently meeting their needs for vitamin D.

The IOM report states that there is no additional health benefit associated with vitamin D intakes above the level of the new Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA). Health Canada reminds Canadians that total vitamin D intake should remain below the level of the new Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) to avoid possible adverse effects.
I can't easily copy & paste the table located here, but here are the values for Adults:

Adults > 70 years
Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) per day: 800 IU (20 mcg)
Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) per day: 4000 IU (100 mcg)


Full information: Vitamin D and Calcium: Updated Dietary Reference Intakes - Nutrition and Healthy Eating - Health Canada
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
However!

This study from 2006 recommends upwards of 1000 IU/day for vitamin D.

"An intake for all adults of >/=1000 IU (40 µg) vitamin D (cholecalciferol)/day is needed to bring vitamin D concentrations in no less than 50% of the population up to 75 nmol/L," the authors write. "The implications of higher doses for the entire adult population should be addressed in future studies.... Given the low cost, the safety, and the demonstrated benefit of higher 25(OH)D concentrations, vitamin D supplementation should become a public health priority to combat these common and costly chronic diseases."
Either way, looks like you should be good if you're getting between 1,000 IU & 4,000 IU/day. Keep in mind that vitamins are not a substance where you get improved performance the more you take. No, vitamins are more like oil in your car and work best when they are at optimal levels; too much oil is bad for the car just like too much vitamins is not good for the body.
 

lok

TRIBE Member
Health Canada looks at vitamin D primarily for immune system functioning. The "average Canadian having acceptable vitamin D levels" is entirely arbitrary, just recommendations that fall in the CYA (Cover Your Ass) territory. Vitamin D as a mood stabilizing supplement is generally accepted amongst NDs everywhere and if you compare the vitamin D levels of Canadians to anyone near the equator, almost all Canadians would be considered deficient.

"But Lok! Why compare people with perma summer to people who have seasons?"

People in Jamaica don't get SADS. In Central America there often isn't even a word for depression.

Get the drops, don't take pills, as mentioned you need calcium and fat to make pills bioavailable but taking the drops sub-lingually circumvents that.

It's such a cheap thing to try, has zero side effects and if it doesn't do anything for your mood at least you'll get one or two fewer colds this winter. On the flip side, it will be the best "anti depressant" you'll ever take.
 
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