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Democalypse 2016 - The Contenders, the Horse Race - the cynicism and the money

Fucking amazing - Ted Cruz tells the convention to "vote their conscience" and the arena starts to lose their shit.

Funny how Ted says the right thing, even if it is for his own personal gain.

Between Lewansowski trying to throw his campaign manager replacement under the bus, Rubio giving the faintest praise possible and Chris Christie trying desperately to secure an Attorney General position in Trump's cabinet, this is like watching shark week the politics edition. They're practically turning on themselves.
 
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Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
Watching the NPR PBS feed, there was a good shot of a woman losing her shit at that vote your conscience line before being escorted out. Then Trump entered before Cruz wrapped!

Man, what a shit show.
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
Still, great for the Cruz brand of "stick to his principles".

I think Cruz did well for himself tonight.
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
How can anyone not be? [a fan of Alex Jones]
Cause he's a deranged conspiracy theorist who thought Y2K was going to be the moment they declared Martial Law and everyone would be taken to FEMA camps, who thinks that the elite have a plan to depopulate the earth by two thirds (thesis of his movie Endgame) and who thinks 9/11 was an inside job and that vaccines are part of that plan to depopulate the earth.

And he screams a lot.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
How can anyone not be?
Cause he's a deranged conspiracy theorist who thought Y2K was going to be the moment they declared Martial Law and everyone would be taken to FEMA camps, who thinks that the elite have a plan to depopulate the earth by two thirds (thesis of his movie Endgame) and who thinks 9/11 was an inside job and that vaccines are part of that plan to depopulate the earth.

And he screams a lot.
Oh and I have a personal connection!

Brother-in-law is the biggest Alex Jones fan I know and has listened to thousands of hours of his podcasts. He has become an acolyte of Infowars and is in full throttle so now:
- My niece is unvaccinated
- My sister told me how "no jews died on 9/11" and said "I don't have an issue really -just when one group controls something, yknow? Like the jews control the media?" and questioned whether the moon landing happened
- it takes 3 minutes to pour a glass of water at their house because they have such intense filtration systems they purchased to filter out the mind control fluoride
- they worry about impending martial law, chemtrails and GMOs poisoning the world.
- Unclear whether they think Sandy Hook was a hoax or not

So I can thank Alex Jones personally for taking my sister's husband - and then her - right down the rabbit hole.

And its pretty much all AJ's fault - he's the primary source, the wellspring - from which all this other bullshit came.

Crank magnetism in action - Alex Jones himself succumbed to it, and then all his followers did too...
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
Praktik,

Just throwing this out there, but what is AJ is right about some (or all) of those issues?

Not saying I agree with Alex Jones but he has made some interesting headlines in the past.
 
Cause he's a deranged conspiracy theorist who thought Y2K was going to be the moment they declared Martial Law and everyone would be taken to FEMA camps, who thinks that the elite have a plan to depopulate the earth by two thirds (thesis of his movie Endgame) and who thinks 9/11 was an inside job and that vaccines are part of that plan to depopulate the earth.

And he screams a lot.
You forgot that AJ believes in Lizard People walking among us.

Anyone that believes someone with a belief like that and takes him even remotely seriously - speaks volumes.
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
Praktik,

Just throwing this out there, but what is AJ is right about some (or all) of those issues?

Not saying I agree with Alex Jones but he has made some interesting headlines in the past.
Even a stopped clock. He is not right on any of the things i listed.

You are welcome to list times when he was correct - this will be in only the vaguest general terms or on an item that is uncontroversial and widely recognized to be true.

Because he puts everything into a matrix of paranoia and faulty prior assumptions - not much of what he says is trustworthy.

His most compelling angle isn't him being right about things, but more about his style and personality: he is so angry and so cynical that this matches the mood of many lemmings ready to follow him anywhere because of that gateway drug.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
More on AJ:

The Gospel of Alex Jones | National Review

There are two forces in Jones’s world. The battle for souls is between the corrosive forces of the New World Order (who have infiltrated everything from the Obama and Bush White Houses to MTV) and the indefatigable human will. Jones is a latter-day gnostic. He wants his audience to wake up from their sleep, emerge from their Platonic cave, and see the world as it truly is. That’s the conversion moment. The next step is walking with Alex Jones in the new life of the spirit. That means getting a filter to remove fluoride from your water (don’t even get him started on fluoride), stocking up on seeds for your emergency garden, and pushing the government to mandate that genetically modified foods have labels. It also means that you might want to live near Austin, Texas, an optimal place to start anew when the New World Order — and, along with it, the American government and the West — crumbles. You also might want to sign up for an online dating profile on his website so you can find another freedom-lover to bunker down with outside Austin. You’re awake now, and that means some things have to change.​

Donald Trump and Alex Jones | Washington Spectator

Orcinus: Conspiracy Theories Fan Fears of Race War, With Alex Jones Leading the Parade

Why the Alex Jones industrial complex must be dismantled | The Daily Dot

"I went after Jones specifically because almost all of his propaganda plays into the hands of the extreme right wing in the United States. He dismisses feminism and gay rights as part of a New Word Order plot to reduce the population. He dismisses climate change as a hoax, and backs it up by giving weather reports on Mars. He attacks non-existent, nameless, faceless organizations like the Illuminati but ignores the evils being done by right-wing billionaires like the Koch Brothers.

His supporters are certified experts on the Bilderberg Group, but they seem to know nothing about the American Legislative Exchange Council, a group that literally writes laws for corporations and passes them into law. Who needs the Illuminati when you have people like that? What if we just do away with the word "Illuminati" and start talking about capitalism and the state?

You will never hear conspiracy theorists talk about class war; they are far more concerned with preserving their own status in this economic system. Like missionaries and populist demagogues of the past, they prey on the young and downtrodden, give them an all-encompassing worldview, call it "truth, and and label everyone who doesn't believe it a "sheep" who needs to "wake up."

I attack Infowars because it is not a revolutionary movement. It is chasing a mirage. It imagines the good ol’ days of 'merica, when white slave-owners wrote a constitution for other property owners, before they pushed west, killed multitudes of Native Americans (historical estimates range between 30-100 million) and stole their land. Those are the glory days of 1776 that the right-wing conspiracy crowd holds up as an ideal that we need to return to. "​
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
You forgot that AJ believes in Lizard People walking among us.

Anyone that believes someone with a belief like that and takes him even remotely seriously - speaks volumes.
You might be confusing Alex Jones with David Icke (easy mistake to make and bless your soul for being so uncorrupted still from knowledge of these crazies!) - and interestingly, there is a pretty sharp split in the Conspiracy Massiv with fans of each accusing the other of being a "disinfo plant", potentially working with the NWO to discredit conspiracy theorists.

David Icke is more closely associated with "reptilian" ideas but he also differs substantially in style, focusing a lot on the power of love which means David Icke fans are more common in hippie circles - with them more likely to listen to David Icke and consider AJ maybe a problematic fellow traveller or worse...

AJ came to prominence in the 90s on the back of Waco and impending Y2k - this and the Clintons made the 90s the era where AJ really garnered his biggest following. In attitude he has a much darker worldview, appears more angry and mainstreams a lot of extremist right-wing stuff from the Patriot/Militia nexus: conspiracy theories on Waco and Oklahoma, guns, FEMA concentration camps.

Another way to think of it, and this is very loose and not a hard rule since there's a venn diagram for each of these guys out there in conspiracy industry fandom where some people like em both and people from the left and right like em both - but generally speaking David Icke is a more likely gateway drug for hippies into Conspiracy Culture, and AJ is more likely gateway drug for libertarians and right wingers into Conspiracy Culture.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Cruz’s ‘Non-Endorsement’
Posted on July 21, 2016, 7:56 AM Daniel Larison, link

Rod Dreher reacts to Cruz’s refusal to endorse Trump during his convention speech last night:

Erm, has that ever happened before? A major speaker at a national party convention pointedly refusing to endorse its nominee? That’s what Ted Cruz did tonight. I do not like Ted Cruz one bit, but I think this is going to serve him well in the long run.​

I’m not so sure about that last part. Cruz is counting on a Trump loss, which is not a bad bet to make, but he also seems to think that the millions of Trump primary voters that already chose not to vote for him the first time will reward his self-serving display from last night in a future cycle. Many people, including Dreher, have mentioned that Cruz preserved his “honor,” and that has struck me as a very odd way to interpret what he did. Like anything else Cruz has done in his political career, he put on a show last night because he thought it would give him a political advantage and aid his future ambitions. He calculated that it would be most to his advantage to appear at the convention and also very useful for his political career in the future to avoid an explicit endorsement of the nominee. That way he gets to have his “Reagan in ’76” moment without tying himself too closely to Trump. Cruz thought he could have it both ways, but I don’t think he pulled it off. He earned the lasting ire of many Trump supporters while gaining a brief surge of media coverage that won’t help him in years to come.

It’s not clear to me why it is honorable to refuse to give an endorsement of a nominee at a party convention while benefiting from the prominent speaking slot he was given. The first words that come to mind to describe that are petty or selfish, and that would be consistent from what we know of Cruz from his past behavior. Cruz is being lauded for his “honor” because Trump is awful, but Trump’s awfulness doesn’t turn Cruz’s self-serving behavior into a noble act. Cruz is nothing if not an opportunist, and when he thought it suited his interest to go along with Trump he did so. Now he has concluded the opposite, and has acted accordingly. Cruz has burned many more bridges in the party with the show he put on, and he made sure to remind the rest of us why so many people dislike and distrust him.
 
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