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Cuba and the USA finally hug it out

praktik

TRIBE Member
oh shit

wait a minute

where's the closest island with no americans going to be then???

Canaries??
 
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wickedken

TRIBE Member
There's definitely something more happening. Don't think some of those big bad corps are going to let their nationalized assets be forgotten. The big news here is that Obama was actually able to get this through. Which makes it more obvious something else is happening.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
just putting this out there...
Russian Subs, and Cuba having a preferential location to monitor, and strike.
just sayin.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
There's definitely something more happening. Don't think some of those big bad corps are going to let their nationalized assets be forgotten. The big news here is that Obama was actually able to get this through. Which makes it more obvious something else is happening.
I doubt we'll see much redress for that, but certainly the Floridian cubans include reparation like demands, of course in this case the adage of "asking blood from a stone" surely fits...

There is certainly something more happening - while Latin America has been out front for decades on this including Cuba in more and more of their regional international institutions we have seen slow thaw in American political attitudes. Even with Democrats fully turned around on this from some decades ago the remaining issue was the Republicans still having such strong ideological committment to the embargo and having some political incentives to be that way given the importance of Florida to the election cycle in presidential years.

The corporate angle here is actually one of the lesser-weighted factors in driving to this day.
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
I doubt we'll see much redress for that, but certainly the Floridian cubans include reparation like demands, of course in this case the adage of "asking blood from a stone" surely fits...

There is certainly something more happening - while Latin America has been out front for decades on this including Cuba in more and more of their regional international institutions we have seen slow thaw in American political attitudes. Even with Democrats fully turned around on this from some decades ago the remaining issue was the Republicans still having such strong ideological committment to the embargo and having some political incentives to be that way given the importance of Florida to the election cycle in presidential years.

The corporate angle here is actually one of the lesser-weighted factors in driving to this day.
So are you actually saying this in this instance, American foreign policy is not driven by economics?
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
So are you actually saying this in this instance, American foreign policy is not driven by economics?
Its a mistake to think this is always the prime concern. In this case it's an interesting mix of yes/no - the biggest issue with Cuba was the fly in the ointment it represented and the potential for a Latin domino effect with a region that was simmering with socialist and communist movements that would end American economic interests in the region as a whole if left unopposed.

With Cuba going the final mile it had to be "made an example of" in much the same way slave-revolt nation Haiti was in the 1800s. Other nations had to know America would enact serious consequences if ever they succumbed to their revolutionaries - or so the thinking went.

For many it was nigh blasphemous that America would even "tolerate" an island of communism so close to shore, and its this ideological opposition to Cuba - especially with the heightening of the cold war - that supplanted economics as the driving force for American continuance of the embargo.

Now with Latin America largely safe for American corporate interests, the end of the cold war and the abeyance of revolutionary movements we hardly have the same kind of fear of a "domino effect" and so we are left in the strange position of holding an emotional/ideological attachment to a policy originally conceived to ensure the primacy of the American economic interest in the region by stopping the dominos. The dominos have long ago been stopped - and interestingly - America's continued support of the embargo is alienating it from the rest of Latin America. Its a political anachronism of the Cold war - extended long past what any reasonable person would have assumed to be an appropriate end-date.

So sure, I mean economics is always in the mix right - but this is one issue that is far more emotional/ideological for America, especially when you consider the actual economic opportunity in Cuba is a tiny, tiny, tiny drop in the ocean for American economic interests. The issue with cuba is always how it impacts the region, and now it may be in the American political interest to end the embargo with Cuba as a way to turn over a new leaf with an increasingly independent Latin American set of countries disgusted at the continuance of this policy and America's history of ruthlessness in the region.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
I actually havent read or heard his statement yet - going off of headlines for that and basing my reaction here on my experience of researching the political history of central and south america. I base my judgments not so much on who is saying what but what is being said and does it make sense - wouldn't "accept" what Obama says if it didn't make sense to me. (and the corollary is I don't "not accept" by default either)

Take it for what its worth, but its the way I see it. You read Republican/Conservative discussions on cuba and its always highly focused on the cold war mantras and the ideological blasphemy of communism. This and the vagaries of the presidential electoral system have made it impossible to change this policy and there's still time for rollback in the coming years if the Republicans win back the White House (watch for rollback promises from Republican presidential candidates if this gets legs and results in a true normalization of relations).

EDIT: And to your point, the genesis of this policy was surely a retribution to the Cuban thumb in the American eye and for redress for politically advantaged business interests hurt by the revolution - and it was then maintained in early years as part of a geopolitical/economic domino theory where economics ruled. But this context has evolved to be one where the policy is couched more in political/emotional justifications than economic in recent decades.
 
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octo

TRIBE Member
meanwhile how many murderers did american foreign policy prop up in latin america.

god damn it, the thought makes me want to puke.
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
Ya that's exactly it, and the haters are on TV talking about how Cuba "tortures" people and so the embargo must stay in place!!

...the mind reels...
 

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
This is really quite disturbing for me.

I get it. Russia was communist; China, still communist, we, or the USA, can have normal relations with them.

But hey, little Island in the Caribbean? Nope, we gotta make a point there.

The last time I was in Cuba, I was bleeding out of both of my ears.

My buddy said to me, "Jeff, you're bleeding out of your ears!!" and I like wiped my ears and there was blood on them!

ok bye

-jM
A&D
 
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