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CRTC and usage-based billing: The internet is now officially dead

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by KodiaK, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Spinsah

    Spinsah TRIBE Member

    Yes and yes.

  2. lobo

    lobo TRIBE Member

    Alex, mostly the latter of your statement.

  3. pig-pen

    pig-pen TRIBE Member

    Agreed - you have to dig deep into their books to really know their cost structures. Then you necessarily get into discussions about marginal vs. fully allocated costing and cross-subsidization between business units – all subjects that are really important to the issue but cause eyes to glaze over.

    If I read it correctly, the CRTC decision says that the carrier’s rates are market-based. Therefore the service is deemed competitive and should not be subject to regulation. If it is being marked up at 100x its “cost” as some suggest, then I would see that as a problem. It cannot be competitive at those levels. If the CRTC decision is flawed in this area, we need to have another look into this matter.
  4. glych t.anomaly

    glych t.anomaly TRIBE Member

    Teksavvy - $40.69/mnth for 200GB Bandwidth = $.20/GB

    Rogers - $79.08/mnth for 125GbB Bandwidth = $.63/GB

    thats for the 25MB down 1MB up service for Rogers, and the 15MB down 512kb up service, that actually is more like 25down 1up when you test it.

    Triple the cost for 60% of the allowed Bandwidth Cap, and its $1.25/GB up to i believe 50GB ....

    * shakes head *

    mutherfuckers. so i would basically be paying almost DOUBLE just to have shittier service. And thats IF they ever get the bill actually correct.

    What is Bell like compared to Rogers?

    Cost and service wise? Anyone?

  5. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Umm Bureaucracy.

    There's things to love and hate about it, like all bureaucracies. While it has a heavy hand, and decides for industry sometimes - it can act as a countervailing force against concentrated corporate power sometimes.
  6. alexd

    alexd Administrator Staff Member

    I wonder if there are any examples of the CRTC acting like that....
  7. workdowntown

    workdowntown TRIBE Member

    Fucking CRTC and their shitty decision-making!

    I wonder if the 'apathetic internet generation' will actually protest this in the streets or if this will just be allowed to come to pass?

    This will affect content-creators as well, all those kids with soundcloud, vimeo etc who upload their high bitrate content, HD video and all will be limited now by their ability to pay for the bandwidth.

    All those apps and widgets that 'phone home' constantly like email notifiers etc will be sipping away at your usage all day long.

    Win win for Rogers/Bell I'm sure. Totally fucked for their customers who have no options outside of the main providers and their resellers who will have to raise their costs too.
  8. pig-pen

    pig-pen TRIBE Member

    There have been accusations that the CRTC members are biased because of their background working for the big telcos. There is NO evidence to support these accusations. For one thing, they have to swear an oath of office. Just as importantly, they are appointed because their telco background is essential in understanding the complexities of the industry and to ensure the commission doesn’t make expensive blunders because of lack of background and understanding of the issues.

    Doesn’t mean mistakes don’t happen though. :p
  9. Subsonic Chronic

    Subsonic Chronic TRIBE Member

    Oh, I guess we've got nothing to worry about then. Case closed!

  10. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Broadcasting Decisions | CRTC

    Have a go and confirm your suspicion or revise it!

    Thats the handy thing about evidence, and public departments that need to publish all their shit.
  11. workdowntown

    workdowntown TRIBE Member

    Maybe a protest by farmville hooked grandmas jonesing to harvest their crops will convince them that this is a terrible idea?

  12. pig-pen

    pig-pen TRIBE Member

    ha! I figured someone would pick this up. It's easy to cast a skeptical stone at this, but in practice its pretty powerful.
  13. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    I agree. One of the things I love about Canada is how deeply entrenched the public service ethos is.

    We have only to look down south at what happens after decades of treating the government - and all government workers - like parasites. The Reagan hollowing out of the public sector basically screwed the idea of public service for good.

    But up here we still have that honourable ideal of serving the public and common good permeating our bureaucracies, and we should be thankful for that.
  14. Spinsah

    Spinsah TRIBE Member

    Well said.

    Unfortunately, in the case of the CRTC, they have failed to protect Canadians. Even half a decade ago I would have gone to great lengths to defended the council, but now, I feel they have outlived their use and should be disbanded.
  15. pig-pen

    pig-pen TRIBE Member

    I don’t think we need to throw the baby out just yet. We just need to recognise failure when it happens, learn from it and move on. De-regulation of the telecommunications sector has been a living experiment for twenty years. There have been successes and failures. Trying to find that sweet spot between facilitating market competition where a natural market exists and retaining price regulation where it is needed is not easy. And all of this is against a backdrop of rapidly changing technology, pushy legislators, and a market that needs fast answers to gnarly problems. The good news is the failures can be undone.
  16. Hi i'm God

    Hi i'm God TRIBE Member

    So these ex-president guys from bell and rogers don't hold pensions or stock options from their long term employers that directly benefit from how profitable those companies are?
  17. Hi i'm God

    Hi i'm God TRIBE Member

  18. Eclectic

    Eclectic TRIBE Member

    The problem I see with that statement is that yes, it may cost that to provide bandwidth but what about all the infrastructure costs? Techs to service the lines? Tech Support to deal with those "My computer has viruses!" people?

    There are a lot more costs to supplying speeds than just the bandwidth itself.
  19. Vincent Vega

    Vincent Vega TRIBE Member

    Spence, I just ran that tool that was posted earlier in the thread by Hollywood. This one:

    Broadband Download Usage / Bandwidth Limit Calculator

    I input what I considered to be an incredible amount of internet usage. Some highlights:

    - 50 hours surfing per week
    - 50 tracks per week
    - 50 hours of video per week
    - 8 movies per month
    - 10 hours gaming per week

    Let's assume the calculator is accurate. With what I entered, I only hit 24GB in a month.

    Anyone who is doubling, tripling or quadrupling these levels to get even in the neighbourhood of what you call a "power user".....up to 300GB, I mean, holy shit. My first honest sentiment is that anyone even close to these levels in the first place needs to seriously re-examine their life. But that's just me.

    So assuming even 25GB becomes the "cut off." Dude, help me understand why this should be considered such a crisis? I mean, honestly, how much time can one human being possibly spend stuck on their computer downloading the entire planet every month?

    Let's put business practices and pricing of goods/services aside for a minute. First help me understand this one, because right now I can't see it.
  20. Eclectic

    Eclectic TRIBE Member

    Exactly Vincent.

    I'm a "medium user" and I just checked with my ISP and I haven't even come close to 60GBs this month.
  21. Hi i'm God

    Hi i'm God TRIBE Member

    Your already paying to deal with tech support or it's included in your existing package. Infrastructure is old and not being updated and heavily subsisted through taxes.
  22. Spinsah

    Spinsah TRIBE Member

    Sure, and those should be covered under subscription/delivery costs like they are with hydro. It also bears mentioning that a lot of the infrastructure in place was funded in large part by the public purse
  23. pig-pen

    pig-pen TRIBE Member

    The commissioners are forbidden from having a financial interest in ANY of the entities affected by their proceedings, whether it is a small ISP or a large telco.
  24. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    Here's the fear: That the ISP's won't lower the monthly for the 90% of ppl who don't even come close to their cap. But the flip of that is, they'll rape the so called bandwidth hogs (read: remaining 10%).

    oh teh horrorz
  25. Hi i'm God

    Hi i'm God TRIBE Member

    You can't hog something that you pay for. Pay for unlimited bandwidth *gasp* receive unlimited bandwidth.

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