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CETA - The new Free Trade?

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by Bacchus, Aug 3, 2010.

  1. Bacchus

    Bacchus TRIBE Promoter

    http://www.canadians.org/trade/documents/CETA/CETA_ten.pdf


    Thoughts? Will this help canada, or will this be the end of us?
     
  2. Hi i'm God

    Hi i'm God TRIBE Member

    There was some shit end of the stick for Canada in the contract I remember seeing.
     
  3. Bacchus

    Bacchus TRIBE Promoter

    yep...that PDF outlines a few of those shitty ends....including european control of our water (lakes and drinking water) and our other resources (timber, oil, precious metals)
     
  4. basilisk

    basilisk TRIBE Member

    Paging maphi...
     
  5. <FresHFunK>

    <FresHFunK> TRIBE Member

    Anything our government is doing right now is not for the people.

    It's for the man. If you think differently your living behind smoke'n mirrors.

    Please let me know of one thing this Provincial or Federal government has done that makes our lives better? With both a PC and a Liberal party in charge of both forms of Government, who do you vote for?

    I want some new choices, these ones are both shit!
     
  6. agentRC4

    agentRC4 TRIBE Member

    not really even close.

    but anyway. If I get into this it will turn all g20 thread up in here.
     
  7. Hi i'm God

    Hi i'm God TRIBE Member

    is that a bad thing?
     
  8. agentRC4

    agentRC4 TRIBE Member

    Yes and No

    Yes - too much time writing, reading responses, writing again.

    N0 - it provides endless entertainment and then Dirty shows up and it gets even better.
     
  9. Ho||yw0oD

    Ho||yw0oD TRIBE Member

    The principle behind CETA is good. We really need to look at expanding our free trade to other jurisdictions and be a lot less reliant on American consumption. Since Ontario just recently implemented HST opening up free trade to others could really help our manufacturers.

    But some of these things mentioned that Canada is agreeing to seem ridiculous.
     
  10. derek

    derek TRIBE Member

    the canada post comment about them losing domestic letter volume (for reasons other than year to year drops in canadian mailing letters) is complete bs.

    the canada post act gives cpost exclusive rights to domestic mail service (essentially no different than any other postal organization in the world, with may the exception of the dutch post which is liberalized). for the last 5 years cpost has be trying to apply their exclusive right to international mail as well, but it was recently shot down in the budget bill. the reality is they never had exclusive rights to international mail (the tried to claim so based on the french interpreteation of the act, but failed). the eu pings mail off each postal organization looking for the best rate.

    all postal agencies are dealing with declining volumes and it has very little to do with free trade, and more to do with emerging technologies.

    i'm old enough to remember with NAFTA came into effect. i worked with a transportation company at the time and some of the horror stories were outrageous (and simply incorrect). don't get me wrong NAFTA was a long and tedious implementation, and there will always be provision that will be modified and revised. talk to people in the lumber industry, and you'll get a completely different few on NAFTA.

    admitedly, though i haven't fully read CETA, so i can't comment on it in full detail. i'm quite ceratain it's not all bad though. and remember most trade agreements have clawback provisions that will allow countries to reinstate duties, countervailing duties, anti-dumping levies, if they can display that the public interest of their own country will be impacted.
     
  11. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    That is why this is a good thing. We need more eggs in more baskets. It's that simple.

    Thing is, we've been here before. Trudeau tried a diversification strategy, which unfortunately failed. Partly because the Europeans were a little miffed at the way Trudeau shat on NATO.

    Probably will have better chances now, but its clear that Europe has been something of an afterthought for Canadian policy makers over the last decade so we'll see how it plays out.

    We should also remember that free trade with places with less labour and environmental regulations (like America and Mexico) is more problematic than trade with a place like Europe, where those regulations are stronger. If anything, could mean more European companies come here for the slightly less stringent regulations in these respects.
     
  12. ScottBentley

    ScottBentley TRIBE Member

    after this, they'll introduce the Amero.

    not long after we'll all have chips implanted in our body!

    *tilts tinfoil hat to the side*
     
  13. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Wait Scott - what if we get something even more sinister... like... the Euro??
     
  14. Sleepy Giant

    Sleepy Giant TRIBE Member

    Not having lumber in NAFTA completely annihilated the lumber/forest products industry basically out of existence in Canada.

    There are small towns that will NEVER recover. Our hard work and innovation has supported their archaic industry for years. In order for our mills to be economical enough to overcome the subsidies/excise taxes placed on Canadian lumber shipments into the US, they had to build bigger, faster, more efficient mills. That creates greater supply which depressed the price while at the same time increased the subsidies to the US mills.

    If we had only had the stones to cut them off and support the small towns that depended on this industry until the US mills went broke.
     
  15. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    The problem with lumber isn't NAFTA and never was, NAFTA was just the vehicle through which US arrogance was funneled. The dispute mechanisms in the agreement have been used more to stall than to resolve, and when decisions go against American interests they usually are simply ignored. Rather than setting the stage for reconciliation on tough issues like lumber, CUFTA and NAFTA have come to pass and these sore points still exist.

    What people are really chafing at is the power imbalance. Fact is, if it were more equal, than NAFTA would have stronger teeth, a more expeditious and respected dispute mechanism process and outcomes that either party would fear because they respect the process.

    In this case, we have one party with the clout to basically do what it wants, and that's why voluntarily ceding our sovereignty on matters like lumber - to take one small example - and putting our faith in "fair" mechanisms we hope will adjudicate in our favour and put some small restraint on the beast to the south is so foolish.

    We would be better off going into these things eyes wide open, with the expectation that America will do whatever it can to get its way. Maybe had we not been so starry-eyed and hard for Uncle Sam under Mulroney we might have been able to hold out for a more meaningful set of restraints in NAFTA on American countervailing dutes and dumping. What makes it even more egregious is that the press, Mulroney and his finance minister himself, all involved in planning the first agreement, the opposition - all of Canada wanted protections against unilateral American actions in any agreement. Mulroney said clearly he would not accept an agreement that didn't have that.

    Then when push came to shove, they caved.

    Like Canadians do a lot of the time. We usually only go our own way on things when we've accumulated enough "Nice to Uncle Sam" points to make a withdrawal.
     

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