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CD Vs. Vinyl

andrew72

TRIBE Member
If you saw a DJ mixing/spinning CD's would you be disappointed? Will vinyl always be the choice amougnst DJ's?
 

-Rudebwoy_Chin-

TRIBE Member
Bookah!

Altho vinyl has a certain place in many peoples' hearts. The advent of programs like Final Scratch are pretty enticing to make the switch. If you were a "Big, international, superstar DJ" like moi in my dreams, then the fear of losing your record crate, and lugging it around everywhere you go can get irksome. Especially, when a program like FS can let you carry your whole collection on a laptop, and you can still have the feel of spinning vinyl cuz they have those 'special' vinyl's you use, to emulate a real record when mixing the Mp3's. Or somethin to that effect.
ease.
 

stir-fry

TRIBE Member
when bad company touched down at an empire jam a few months ago, they brought their cd player with them..

was anyone disappointed? HELL NO!

they could do everything on it that they could do with turntables, plus the fact that they had just freshly pressed the cd's meant that they were probably too new to even have time to make it to the record press.
them's some fresh tchunes
 

Brandon

TRIBE Member
Vinyl has something like 25+ years of credibility built up in the dance community as the best musical format. The prevailing notion of what a "DJ" is is linked to turntables and black wax.

That's quite a reputation for new technologies to unravel. Pitch-control CD players have been around for about ten years (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and it seems like only very recently that they've started to gain popularity, thanks to all the high-tech options that they can pack in.

But as long as these CD decks were just imitating what could already be done with two technics 1200s, they couldn't put a major dent in the DJ market. Now that they can do all sorts of other things that a turntable would be hard pressed to do, they seem a little more attractive.

But now with final scratch, perhaps, vinyl will finally be trumped. It would seem more credible to me if the major argument that its supporters use - no more 50lb record crates - wasn't so weak. (Suck it up people, you've been carrying records all these years with no reason to complain.) I know it has other technical benefits, but until it's marketed as something other than a tool for lazy DJs, I don't know. That and it totally destroys the culture of crate-digging.

But back to the original question, every time I've seen somebody using CDs I have been disappointed. Maybe it's just the talent deficiency of the people I've had the opportunity to see so far, and maybe it's the fact that I'm being confronted with a different concept of what DJing is that puts me off. Like I said earlier, vinyl has built up quite a following and an expectation in people for a long, long time, and new technologies face an uphill battle (for better or worse). But final scratch may be the "killer app" that puts vinyl in its grave.
 
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andrew72

TRIBE Member
I would think that CD's and use of a laptop would open up many exciting doors for DJ's. Having 1000 tracks at your disposal would certainly challenge programming skills for the best I am sure
 

tommysmalls

TRIBE Member
y'know what, if you put the dj in a booth so that you can't see what gear he's using, what difference does it make if he's playing vinyl, cd's, or whatever..

as long as it sounds good - dance!

people are so uptight about people who spin off cd's...geeez :rolleyes:

cheers,
tommy <-- used to spin cd's, now only vinyl, but likes both
 

Plato

TRIBE Member
cd's are ok

but in the case of the cdj at elements (kitchener) in the air room...dear god!

trainwreck every mix! how hard is it to mix with cds!?? :comfused:

after enough coercion we managed to convince the owner to let matt&erick spin at 1 am if the next dj didnt show up. he didnt. yay!

then they busted out their wax. it managed to draw a small crowd.

so i guess people do perfer vinyl?

im open to cds, but only if the technology gets better.

final scratch is promising though.

p[l]a+0
 
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Gavin the Bass

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Brandon

But now with final scratch, perhaps, vinyl will finally be trumped.
why is final scratch being hailed as 'not' vinyl?
the important and popular aspect of vinyl is not necessarily that the music is on the record, but rather the vinyl format itself which allows alot more freedom than any cd player available...

final scratch is just as good as having the music pressed on vinyl, so personally i see it as vinyl...

vinyl as a format is so convenient, its the best interaction with the music that a dj could want, allowing for the most instantanious manipulation of the track next to ripping it apart in the studio (this is looking at the possibilities of mixing, right up to turntablism, which is ingenious editing with such simple tools). cd players have features that compensate for the ease of using vinyl (i.e. cue points, sampling, speed adjust without adjusting pitch), and those are strengths in themselves, but as i said, compensation...

you can't scratch with cd's, and don't pull the pioneer cd-1000 wool over my eyes, its half-assed ;)
 

Plato

TRIBE Member
and even if you could scratch with a cd...would it sound the same as scratching a record?

or would it sound very digital? like a pre-set scratch sound being mixed with whatever noise a cd would make when being "scratched"?

anyone??
:confused:

p[l]a+0
 

nusty

TRIBE Member
CD's are ok. but please don't headline a party with a pre-mixed CD or with all of the mixing times pre written just so that "you can interact with the crowd".

I must say I was not terribly impressed when this happened during the final weekend in January.
 

Gavin the Bass

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Plato
and even if you could scratch with a cd...would it sound the same as scratching a record?

or would it sound very digital? like a pre-set scratch sound being mixed with whatever noise a cd would make when being "scratched"?

anyone??
:confused:

p[l]a+0
it just doesn't have the feeeeeel of scratching...
every subtle movement of your hand on a record can be heard, when i used the pioneer cdj-1000 (which is probably the best digital source you can scratch with, haven't tried final scratch yet), i found that it generalized the sounds (didn't catch the small movements) and wasn't sensitive enough...
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
if i was watching a turntablist battle with cdjs id be dissapointed.

cue button.

of course, i guess it wouldn't be a turntablist battle without turntables so this whole post has no base.
 
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Brandon

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gavin the Bass


why is final scratch being hailed as 'not' vinyl?
the important and popular aspect of vinyl is not necessarily that the music is on the record, but rather the vinyl format itself which allows alot more freedom than any cd player available...

final scratch is just as good as having the music pressed on vinyl, so personally i see it as vinyl...
Good point. But final scratch is a system for manipulating music saved as mp3s (and other formats if I'm not mistaken) on a laptop's hard drive, which begs the question, are record companies going to continue to produce vinyl (in this case I'm referring to the actual recording of music on a 12" record) or will they just start charging money for mp3s and save the cost of pressing records? The vinyl "technique" will live on but records may not. If you can manipulate an mp3 file like you can a record, does it even matter?

And for the record I would choose final scratch over a CD deck anyday.
 

Cheap Ego

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gavin the Bass
you can't scratch with cd's
true, but you can use them as a sampler.

Each have their own advantage, and the things you could do with CDJ'ing technology would be sooo ahead of vinyl if companies like Pioneer spent their money on moving forward, instead of moving backwards.

But what can you do?

Unfortunatly since people are afraid to try new things, new technologies must be developed backward to accomodate people that are afraid to leave old technologies.

retarded.
 

andrew72

TRIBE Member
Purchasing an MP3 instead of vinly sounds very intriguing to me as I don't have the time to always go to a record store and hope they have what I am looking for. a great loss in the romantic sense of it but for me it is about the music and if I could have more at my finger tips I would be in heaven :)
My collection could easily increase triple within days and I would have so much more to work with, why wouldn't a DJ demand this alternative.
 

Michkey

TRIBE Member
I'm not a turntablist, so excuse my ignorance. How does scratching really come into play when you're talking about trance, techno, etc?

When I first saw Roni Size up on a stage with 6 other dudes sitting behind computer screens, I was skeptical. After the set I wasn't. But again, this may be genre specific.

It seems to me that this is a case of people seeing something new and not even comparing it to the old before saying "this isn't the way it's supposed to be". Just because something doesn't have the same look and feel doesn't mean that it isn't equal or superior.

Anyway, everytime this conversation comes up, people use whatever arguments they can, but with little merit. Like some people will say "A + B = C", and then other people will take two A's and try and make D...

But ultimately I think that the DJ themself can answer this question based on their personal preference and skills. Who the hell are we to tell them the format they should use to create their music?
 

Gavin the Bass

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Brandon


Good point. But final scratch is a system for manipulating music saved as mp3s (and other formats if I'm not mistaken) on a laptop's hard drive, which begs the question, are record companies going to continue to produce vinyl (in this case I'm referring to the actual recording of music on a 12" record) or will they just start charging money for mp3s and save the cost of pressing records? The vinyl "technique" will live on but records may not. If you can manipulate an mp3 file like you can a record, does it even matter?

And for the record I would choose final scratch over a CD deck anyday.
well, i'm a music purest, i think music should be made for the sake of making music, not for profit or popularity. with the appeal of mp3's growing (now in the dj world with final scratch), record companies will have to rethink why people would pay money for their music. personally, i hope that record companies will disappear completely. they provide the promotional aspect for artists (not needed when you can promote yourself on the net), the studios to produce the music in (not needed when you can do as good on your home computer without a producer assigned by the record company guiding your every move in the name of profit), and they essentially take 90% of the money earned because they have to pay for those other two aspects.

whats the point?

record companies are responsable for much music, mtv and vh1; stations that would not be popular if it wasn't for music videos, which would not be possible if it wasn't for the money available by record companies to make them, which hold no responsability to quality when marketed towards 15 year-olds pissed off at their parents (but with an extremely large disposable income in regards to historical standards)...

this doesn't mean that record companies don't have uses and haven't produced excellent music, but the need for them is disappearing.

and in regards to the smaller labels, especially those who produce vinyl, i think that they understand and will adapt. personally, i see emphasis being put on 'live' performances using whatever tools you have at your disposal (final scratch allows the vinyl-like manipulation of essentially any piece of music, no limits). i think its amazing that i can go into a record store and pick up a white label, not caring who made it or what label its on, and just be content that its a wicked track. i think that same motivation is what drives smaller, independant record labels, and so is the same motivation that drives the producers under that label. wicked music is usually made by wicked people who will continue making music regardless of whether they are getting paid or getting recognition for it. and if those people allow their music to be downloaded by anyone, then that only contributes to the developement of music in its purest form.

(that was alot :))
 
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Gavin the Bass

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Cheap Ego

Unfortunatly since people are afraid to try new things, new technologies must be developed backward to accomodate people that are afraid to leave old technologies.
its all about a discipline though. why play the violin when you can just listen to someone else playing it? why make a mix tape with turntables when you can use pro-tools on your computer? turntables have limits, which is what makes it an art form. its using them up to their very limits that demonstrates ability. and the more complex arrangements demonstrated with simple tools, the more entertaining it is (which is why watching q-bert sure as hell beats out roni size with a network of computer nerds, unless you know exactly what they're doing)...

Originally posted by Michkey

But ultimately I think that the DJ themself can answer this question based on their personal preference and skills. Who the hell are we to tell them the format they should use to create their music?
yup, but the burden is on the listener to understand what the performer is doing, or else you could just be listening to a recording. its so bad when i see dime-a-dozen djs being worshipped by those listening simply because they enjoy whats coming out of the speakers (*AHEM* OAKENFOLD *AHEM*). and yes, thats whats important, but if you just enjoy the music, why flock around the dj booth with eyes glazed over?
 

andrew72

TRIBE Member
To me it is all about the music so I guess whatever the DJ chooses to use is up to him/her. As long as the music is great that is all that should matter...And just think how much better the music will get now that we can burn our own stuff in the privacy of our own home :)
 

Cheap Ego

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gavin the Bass
its all about a discipline though. why play the violin when you can just listen to someone else playing it? why make a mix tape with turntables when you can use pro-tools on your computer? turntables have limits, which is what makes it an art form. its using them up to their very limits that demonstrates ability. and the more complex arrangements demonstrated with simple tools, the more entertaining it is (which is why watching q-bert sure as hell beats out roni size with a network of computer nerds, unless you know exactly what they're doing)...
If doing as much as you can with as little as possible is the art form, how would improved digital technologies differ from a DJ using an FX panel, or three turntables? Sure doing a lot with a little is a show of skill and talent, but does that mean music has to end there?

btw- just to clarify, I meant new technologies to push manipulatio further, not to make things easier...
 
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