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Catholic Church to open its doors to gay priests

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
CBC News

A Vatican document expected to be made public soon says the Church will allow gay men who have lived chastely for three years to be candidates for the priesthood.

The document, which has been in the works for three years will update Vatican policy which up until now made clear that homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood.

A senior official with the Vatican, who requested anonymity because the document has not yet been released said the new policy will permit candidates who have lived a chaste life for at least three years before their admission to the seminary.

The Italian weekly Panorama said in its Friday editions that Pope Benedict XVI approved the document during the summer.

In a similar report Friday, the National Catholic Reporter said seminary officials will be asked to exercise "prudential judgement."

Vatican teaching holds that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered." The Church, however, says that homosexuals should be treated with compassion and dignity.

The issue has long been a subject of debate at the Vatican.

An American homosexual priest, speaking on condition of anonymity because he feared reprisal from church leaders, said if the reports are "it will be the first time that the church will have formally said that gay men have been and can be accepted by seminaries."
 

enjiro

TRIBE Member
yes. I'm having a hard time beliving this one.. I mean, they're suddenly going to reverse a 2000 year old decision? Older, even, given the previous jewish states didn't exactally embrace homosexualism either.

Hehe.. I want to hear Bush's response to this one if it actually happens.
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
also:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy†from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,†they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design†to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historicalâ€. At most, they say, they may contain “historical tracesâ€.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language†and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporariesâ€.

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.â€

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance†and to warn of “significant dangers†involved in a fundamentalist approach.

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.â€

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our childrenâ€, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences†in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.â€

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.â€

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.â€

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.

That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.â€

BELIEVE IT OR NOT

UNTRUE

Genesis ii, 21-22

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

Genesis iii, 16

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.â€

Matthew xxvii, 25

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.â€

Revelation xix,20

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.â€

TRUE

Exodus iii, 14

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.â€

Leviticus xxvi,12

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.â€

Exodus xx,1-17

The Ten Commandments

Matthew v,7

The Sermon on the Mount

Mark viii,29

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

Luke i

The Virgin Birth

John xx,28

Proof of bodily resurrection
 

deafplayer

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ndrwrld
no...pedophiles.
yeah i didnt mean to imply that... im just saying, the people in the church are doing this, including many who are gay
it seems like of weird that they're allowing homosexuality before being a woman (which never got you sentenced to hell as far as i know)... but maybe it shouldnt be, considering its an organization consisting entirely of men who have renounced sexuality... apparently, they sympathize w/ homosexuality before that wicked gender that got us kicked out of eden
i dont think youre even allowed to teach in catholic schools here if youre gay (at least until recently)
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
This is nothing new.

I went through Catholic school learning that many passages of the Bible were purely symbolic, particularly the creation story. I imagine these documents were only issued to reinforce existing Church doctrine rather than present a new position.

Here's what the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says about creation:

"The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers."

In other words, the Church has accepted evolutionary theory for quite some time already.
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
I love how you can just arbitrarily entreat some Biblical statements or concepts as merely "symbolic" allowing contradictory information to coincide with "God's word", while other statements are observed as "literal", the breaking of which deserves nothing less than complete atonement or a life of condemnation and purgatory.

I wish I could approach other problems that way! My house is burning? No, no, that's symbolic. :)
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
I love how you can just arbitrarily entreat some Biblical statements or concepts as merely "symbolic" allowing contradictory information to coincide with "God's word", while other statements are observed as "literal", the breaking of which deserves nothing less than complete atonement or a life of condemnation and purgatory.

I wish I could approach other problems that way! My house is burning? No, no, that's symbolic. :)

Yes but lets go a little easy on them. First they are picking Darwin over creationism or "Intelligent Design" as it has been relabeled. This alone makes me happy and clearly defines a separation between a Christian right and a catholic one. In a political sense this closes the door on at least one major stupidity.


We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.
This has been one of my biggest sticking points with the Catholic Church (a group I support more times than I should) gay marriage, divorce, abortion, euthanasia, and traffic tickets are clearly secular and should remain that way. If you want to preach a higher morality to your followers GO AHEAD!! But lets not base secular law on this standard.

Next off...


Luke 1:26 - 28 - The Virgin Birth

26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
Finally they're saying the bitch wasn't a virgin. Christ ever since grade 6 this made sense to me and I was late in getting it. There is no prophecy and women who bare children simply aren't virgins by the definition of the word. The entire thing was some sick joke added in long after the fact for socio political reasons.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

Personally its one of the few books of the bible I kind of liked. I've read it to me 8 year old nephew he was scared shitless! Its better than most fireside spook stories and without its fantastic imagery what would heavy medal music be, chirst Satanists would have nothing if not for the book of Revelation.


Honestly though I'm impressed, I expected this pope to be much less liberal and the fact that the wall is crumbling a little makes me happy. If over the next 50 years the Roman Catholic Church begins focusing on aid and development in the third world and not literal interpretations they may still hold some relevance. Catholic guilt should be used as the tool it was intended for and we no longer need creationist bullshit, virgins, and books of the coming floods of lava.

God isn't sending an apocalypse there is no judgment day stop living for the end of the world that isn't fucking coming.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
"The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers."

In other words, the Church has accepted evolutionary theory for quite some time already.

We still thank god for it, but we agree his/her link to it is tenuous at best and if s/he does exist s/he probably didn't do anything.

I honestly like this approach. Galileo wasn't a heretic because of what he said and published, he was a heretic for doing it on the payroll of the Roman Catholic Church and releasing it without there permission. The earth really does orbit around the sun, our sun is only one of a magnitude of others.

Thank god for it, s/he had nothing to do with it but hey threes nobody else to thank so god it is.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Ahh and here goes that whole burning in hell for adultry! fuken eh who'd have guessed all the Jezebel's can be thankfull they aren't to be taken literally anymore.



revelations... 2:18 - 22

18"To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. 20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.

christ I've never wanted to s/he a quote before this one...
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
I love how you can just arbitrarily entreat some Biblical statements or concepts as merely "symbolic" allowing contradictory information to coincide with "God's word", while other statements are observed as "literal", the breaking of which deserves nothing less than complete atonement or a life of condemnation and purgatory.
The Catholic Church has never been centred around the Bible. The Church was founded as a direct continuation of Christ's mission on Earth through Saint Peter and his successors (i.e., the Pope), which makes it quite different than almost every other Christian denomination.
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by AdRiaN
The Catholic Church has never been centred around the Bible. The Church was founded as a direct continuation of Christ's mission on Earth through Saint Peter and his successors (i.e., the Pope), which makes it quite different than almost every other Christian denomination.

Yah, don't even get me started on Catholicism.


In keeping with this thread, I think it is great that the Church is able to reconcile some of its differences and keep up with "secular" society (not to mention progressive thought), but such facts do not change the flawed premises on which the Church stands.
 

dora

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by deafplayer
gays before women?
and there are already thousands of gays in the ministry...
That's the first thing I though of... I applaud these "contemporary" moves made by the Catholic church, but gays are aloud to enter priesthood and women still aren't?

They're revoking the Adam & Eve story as symbolic and yet we're still bitches?!? WTF.

but I guess some movement is better than none at all... The gays will eventually overrule and bring on their fag hags into the priesthood!
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by dora
That's the first thing I though of... I applaud these "contemporary" moves made by the Catholic church, but gays are aloud to enter priesthood and women still aren't?

remember as much as you or i dont agree with the catholic church they are very much a part of many cultures and are considered a source of guidance and morality. (how ever misguided their blueprint for it may seem)

i give them credit for this move as it seems to me in keeping with the whole notion that jesus loves everyone and its all good among people and blah blah blah.

the reason i think protestant streams of christianity seem to be gaining the most ground over the last decades their more open nature of many protestant sects.

women or gay preists, birth control is ok, more simple and humble church institutions, a mesage more of tolerance than doctrine and attacks against other faiths which mark catholoism and islam sermons alike too often for my liking.

i think islam needs to continue in its path of reformation like the catholic church is with these types of acts as both have long held homophobic stances that have not served them well in an increasingly open society.

now if only preists could have sex , then the catholics would be cooking!!
 

Colm

TRIBE Member
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=5321

The document should be released this weekend.

Re: dittomuch - Because the Church has said certain parts of the Bible shouldn't be take literally, does not mean it has decided the entire Bible is now merely a symbol of days & doctrine past. Things like the Virgin Birth & adultery, for example, are matters of infallible doctrine around which the Church is centred. Is it unbelievable? Of course! This is the Catholic Church we're talking about.

Re: The Chuch scandal.
80% of the cases were of a homosexual nature. The majority of these cases dealt not with a priest molesting a pre-pubescent boy, but with adolescents and adult men. This I think is one of the reasons why the new document will only reaffirm the ban on homosexual men from the priesthood and not introduce some sort of extraordinairy qualifying process.

Re: judge wopner
The protestant streams of Christianity did enjoy a popular moment from the 1960s to the 1990s. But their heyday has now passed and the orthodox Churches have now eclipsed their 'liberal' counterparts in conversions, membership and overall vitality. The issues which seem to occupy everyone's mind these days, are in fact closed questions for the Church. Birth control, priestesses, trusteeism etc will never find a home in Catholicism, even if many North American and European Catholics believe they should. The Pope, bishops or whomever, cannot simply change doctrine because secular society deems it necessary. If you want a church that does, the Episcopalian & Canadian Anglican congregations are more than happy to welcome you in.
 
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judge wopner

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Colm
[BThe protestant streams of Christianity did enjoy a popular moment from the 1960s to the 1990s. But their heyday has now passed and the orthodox Churches have now eclipsed their 'liberal' counterparts in conversions, membership and overall vitality. . [/B]
i disagree, the largest catholic dioceese in the US dont touch the large baptist churches of the south.

while alot of attention has gone to the cahtolics and hard core fundamentalists, they still remain by and large a minority to the larger protestant population of the US and Canada.

i assume by orthodox you dont mean greek/eastern orthodox as th eonly reason they are getting more members is because guys like me see their church as a great way to meet yugoslavian chicks.
 

Colm

TRIBE Member
lol

you're right tho - i should replace 'orthodox Churches' with 'Catholic Church', given our discussion was centred on America, and not the entire world.

Catholic Church in the US: 66 Million members. True, there are more protestants in America and Canada. The problem there is the 35,000 protestant denominations at work in North America - making our comparison squabble infinitesimally more difficult to resolve.
 
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