• Hi Guest: Welcome to TRIBE, the online home of TRIBE MAGAZINE. If you'd like to post here, or reply to existing posts on TRIBE, you first have to register. Join us!

Canadian soldier attacked with axe

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
Canadian soldier attacked during meeting with Afghan elders north of Kandahar

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - Militants tossing a grenade and firing small arms attacked Canadian soldiers at a meeting with Afghan village elders Saturday but it was a lone man wielding an axe who caused the serious casualty among Canadians.

Lieut. Trevor Greene of Vancouver sat down for a meeting with village elders Saturday afternoon when a man suddenly struck him with an axe.

"He came out of the crowd and pulled out an axe from underneath his clothing and lifted it above his head standing right behind Trevor," said Capt. Kevin Schamuhn, the platoon commander who was sitting at Greene's side.

"The guy lifted up the axe and cried out the 'Allah Akbar,' the jihad prayer before they commit suicide. And he swung the axe into Trevor's head."

Schamuhn and two other soldiers each fired a volley into the attacker, killing him instantly.

A melee ensued, with local residents running in every direction and more attackers firing small arms from across a river.

Canadian and Afghan soldiers fired their own assault rifles and the Afghans added rocket-propelled grenades.

Moments later, another insurgent threw a grenade at Canadian and Afghan forces. The grenade exploded harmlessly a distance away. Soldiers returned fire at the man. They believe the man was wounded but he escaped.

The meeting was one in a series for the platoon based at a forward staging camp about 60 kilometres north of Kandahar.

Greene, Schamuhn and a security detail were meeting with local elders to talk about possible reconstruction projects when the attack took place.

The two officers removed their helmets and set down their arms as a gesture of trust for elders who traditionally guarantee security at such meetings, known as shura.

"We were completely vulnerable to them and they took complete advantage of that," Schamuhn said.

Greene was evacuated by U.S. Blackhawk helicopter to the Canadian hospital at Kandahar Airfield. He emerged from surgery Saturday afternoon and remains in serious but stable condition.

"We would classify it is absolutely cowardly, a maniac I guess is safe to say," said Col. Tom Putt, the deputy commander of Canadian forces in Afghanistan.

The soldiers are camped out at a forward operating base near Gumbad, north of Kandahar, a hotbed of anti-government activity. The small encampment surrounded by farmers' fields had previously come under rocket attack and several U.S. soldiers died in the area last year.

"The area in question has been one of the transit routes for some time for the Taliban," Putt said.

Greene, a reservist with the Seaforth Highlanders, is an author and journalist based in Vancouver. He has written a book about the missing women of Vancouver's Downtown Eastside and also co-wrote Closing Bigger: The Field Guide to Closing Bigger Deals with Shane Gibson.
 
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
ugh get them the fuck out of Afghanistan already.
wrong answer.

the very fact that this shit happens should tell us that they need help.

what would be gained by the ISAF leaving.. or are you merely suggesting that Canadians should not be there?

if the ISAF leaves, there will be another full-blown civil war, the only difference being that the Taliban have now more or less switched places with the Northern Alliance.
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
judge wopner said:
why because the reasons for being there have suddenly become invalid or because canadians have been killed or injured?
we've seen it happen already with several European countries.

a cause is considered worthy of support, soldiers are deployed, there are some fatalities, tail goes between legs, and suddenly the cause isn't so worthwhile.

why the hell would a country deploy troops if they'll turn tail as soon as it gets ugly?

it seems every time there is a fatality another poll is conducted, and sure enough, each time support for the mission goes down. what exactly do people expect from a war?

why are Afghans not deserving of our[their] sacrifice?
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
docta seuss said:
wrong answer.

the very fact that this shit happens should tell us that they need help.

what would be gained by the ISAF leaving.. or are you merely suggesting that Canadians should not be there?
Just because there is violence, particularly Western-directed violence, is absolutely no justification for leaving troops in Afghanistan.
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
docta seuss said:
wrong answer.

the very fact that this shit happens should tell us that they need help.

what would be gained by the ISAF leaving.. or are you merely suggesting that Canadians should not be there?

if the ISAF leaves, there will be another full-blown civil war, the only difference being that the Taliban have now more or less switched places with the Northern Alliance.
No I think the Americans should have been made to stay instead of us going in to shovel shit so they could go start a new passion project in Iraq. Why are we America's janitors?

It's an inadvertant support of the American war machine.
 
Last edited:

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
No I think the Americans should have been made to stay instead of us going in to shovel shit so they could go start a new passion project in Iraq. Why are we America's janitors?

It's an inadvertant support of the American war machine.


We are doing it because the cause of the troubles is no longer relevant to the solution and leaving failed states isn't an option. When we abandon a place without committing to the reconstruction efforts we leave failed states behind that eventually become an even greater issue. We can see classic examples of this in Somalia, in Afghanistan, in Ethiopia, and in Sri Lanka.

When Afghanistan was finally abandoned by the USSR and USA it didn't take 10 years for the country to become a hot bed of misery. If we do this again I would expect it to take even less time.
 
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
docta seuss said:
we've seen it happen already with several European countries.

a cause is considered worthy of support, soldiers are deployed, there are some fatalities, tail goes between legs, and suddenly the cause isn't so worthwhile.

why the hell would a country deploy troops if they'll turn tail as soon as it gets ugly?

it seems every time there is a fatality another poll is conducted, and sure enough, each time support for the mission goes down. what exactly do people expect from a war?

why are Afghans not deserving of our[their] sacrifice?
agreed.

while people have been politiking in this region for millenia, wars have been raging and Canada has a very significant opportunity to make things better the region.

the reasons they are there may be a bit suspect, the methods they are going about creating peace may put our own troops in greater danger, and the inadvertant support of US activities elsewhere are all valid considerations,

but at the end of the day, there was widespread backing for this mission early on and it seems people have soured not because the reasons for being there are unsound but because canadians have been hurt and killed, which goes contrary to our constant assertions that we are a nation of peacekeepers.... just as long as no body gets hurt....

you cant have your cake and eat it to. if i had a dollar for every canuk that supports peacekeeping missions and brags about us being great peacekeeprs yet fails to support military spending or insists the missions are hopeless when canadians or UN troops are injured or killed id be rich.

its a sad state to see canadians coming home in caskets for sure, its even harder to remind yourself that we cant just pack up and leave afghans after we made a commitment to help.

J
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
Ditto Much said:
We are doing it because the cause of the troubles is no longer relevant to the solution and leaving failed states isn't an option.
What does this even mean?

When we abandon a place without committing to the reconstruction efforts we leave failed states behind that eventually become an even greater issue. We can see classic examples of this in Somalia, in Afghanistan, in Ethiopia, and in Sri Lanka.
We? Did we attack Afghanistan for a ten minute photo op that we were looking for OBL? Did we support a corrupt government in hopes that they would help us get some oil, then have them turn on us? Did we make a military and cultural mess of the country in the first place? I'm not sure why you're acting as though all this is our fault. I think those at fault should be handling it, just like a rich person should have to wipe their own ass even though they're rich.

When Afghanistan was finally abandoned by the USSR and USA it didn't take 10 years for the country to become a hot bed of misery. If we do this again I would expect it to take even less time.
Yes and two years ago the Americans would have been responsible for that. Now we'll be responsible just for trying to help.
 

DJ elektron-

TRIBE Member
Recently Bill Clinton recommended Ken Wilber to the World Economic Forum..


Please see.

www.integralworld.net


"You cannot look for this Spirit,
for it is doing the looking.
You cannot see this Spirit,
for it is doing the seeing.
You cannot find this Spirit,
for it is doing the finding.

If you understand this,
then Spirit is doing the understanding.
If you don't understand this,
Spirit is doing that.

Understand it or not,
just that is Spirit." - Ken Wilber
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
Ditto Much said:
We are doing it because the cause of the troubles is no longer relevant to the solution and leaving failed states isn't an option.
Boss Hog said:
What does this even mean?
how can you question such a statement?

what's done is done, and whether action taken in the past was just or not, there is a mess to clean up, and from what i've heard, Afghans feel infinitely more comfortable working with Canadians as opposed to Americans.
 
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories

DaPhatConductor

TRIBE Promoter
i think that we should have never entered that silly country. leaving may be problematic at this point, but we really should never have been there in the first place.

i think we should get them out too. i think that they're doomed with or without us and our troops being there is what got us on the taliban shit list in the first place isn't it?

we should bail.

staying is a band-aid. we need to get out and deal with the root of the problem.
 

Shug

TRIBE Member
It's a really unfortunate incident, and while I'm the last person to advocate military action... I think ground presence is the only way to let the Afghan citizens know a) we're there to help, b) we're not the Americans, and c) we don't employ the same process and policy that the Americans do.
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
DaPhatConductor said:
i don't know.

i think an axe in the head lets us know how we are percieved pretty clearly...
what!?

one suicidal Taliban attacks a Canadian at a meeting of tribal elders to which the Canadians were invited to discuss reconstruction, and this is suddenly representative of how the Afghan people feel?

no, i firmly believe that for the most part Afghans approve of the Canadian presense.
 

Colm

TRIBE Member
I wonder if Canadians have the pyschological resolve to put up any casualty reports.

Or is outcry because Afghanistan has been packaged as part of the 'War on Terror' and not as a noble peacekeeping mission?
 
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
docta seuss said:
how can you question such a statement?

what's done is done, and whether action taken in the past was just or not, there is a mess to clean up, and from what i've heard, Afghans feel infinitely more comfortable working with Canadians as opposed to Americans.

This makes a lot more sense than Ditto's train of thought writing.
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
Shug said:
a) we're there to help, b) we're not the Americans, and c) we don't employ the same process and policy that the Americans do.
exactly.

i've read countless articles on the level of respect Afghans have for Canadians and the way they operate.

In fact not too long ago in Macleans there was an article discussing the training of Afghan security forces by Canadians, and how devastated the Afghan troops were when they were informed that they would have to go out in the field with American units following completion of their training.

from what i've heard, generally speaking the American presence consists of military convoys passing through urban areas at high speeds à la Iraq, pushing everyone else off the road, whilst the soldiers glare at the populace as though they are all guilty of something.

Canadians on the other hand, often go in on foot and mingle, mindful of cultural differences, and offering the respect Afghans deserve.


i don't know where your strong sense of pessimism comes from in this case Dylan, but i am of rather the opposite opinion.

it seems that while an American presence grates on the nerves of the people, the Canadian presence in much more tolerable, to the point of maybe even being welcomed. ;)
 

DaPhatConductor

TRIBE Promoter
Colm said:
because Afghanistan has been packaged as part of the 'War on Terror' and not as a noble peacekeeping mission
also: how can we really trust the media about what the afghanis think of us? you can read thousands of articles in US papers about how the iraqis love the americans, even when it is blatantly untrue...

i have a relative there as a peacekeeper and he says that they are reviled, shot at, etc... he also says that the afghanis are not overly sensitive to the differences between canadians and americans.
 
Last edited:

Hispeeddub

TRIBE Member
I’m skeptical of the idea that Afghans in general make a distinction between Americans and Canadians. I guess it depends who you ask. It’s nice to think we might be welcomed. Do you have one of these articles you could share?
 

Hispeeddub

TRIBE Member
Shug said:
a) we're there to help, b) we're not the Americans, and c) we don't employ the same process and policy that the Americans do.
umm, I could very well be misinformed on the subject, but is our presence there not part of the U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom? In which case would that not make us somewhat subject to their processes and protocols?
 
tribe cannabis accessories silver grinders
Top