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Canadian pot legalization discussion

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
I am watching all the maneuvering and posturing about pot legalization and I have to say that I was shocked but not surprised at the government of Ontario's idea of opening up a few stand-alone pot stores to meet demand while at the same time using legislative clout and policing to eliminate any retail competition.

Some of you might be old enough to remember Consumers Distributing, a place where you go into the shop, look through a catalog, write what you want on a slip of paper and hand it to the clerk, and he would go into the back room to retrieve what your wrote down. Truly a bizarre retail environment, and one the Government of Ontario seems to want to emulate with their CCBO. Their own market research surveys telling them that only 24% of Ontarians want cannabis retail handled by government stores.

New Brunswick, moved ahead fast by first securing supply (something the Ontario government hasn't done yet) by signing an agreement with a legal provider.

There is no official date for recreational use legalization. Sometime in July next year is not clear enough and you can see most of the provinces aren't taking it seriously and are unprepared.

It looks like a total mess so far.
 
Stop Bill C-10

praktik

TRIBE Member
Yep - but its a move away from criminalization.

Heck - drinking laws are still messed up. And they were even more messed up in the 90s. More messed up in the 80s.

Before that sections of this town were dry.

It takes time - we are at least moving in the right direction.

I agree its dumb as fuck - but we're ontario. Thats no more than we deserve.

I'm looking forward to the price break on my habit. Already seeing the price breaks from increased competition in the grey market. Heartened by signs from Colorado and Washington - prices there are now less than $6 a gram.

The control here in Ontario means our curve should be slower, but still there.

Each decade the pot laws should get better and better - as long as we keep out the retrogrades who want to turn back the clock and be such frickin 'Tough Guys' on drugs
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
It's retarded. all these newbies grabbing tall cans and a dime. Can't go in to work tomorrow. too busy wandering on the street.

The Toronto Police are right. They know what's going to happen. it's going to be mayhem.

What evidence supports this?

Are you thinking about the chaos and mayhem they predicted in Portugal, Colorado, Washington that never happened? All evidence suggests our Toronto police are just as mistaken as Colorado police were.

The Sky Is Not Falling: Legal Pot Turns One in Colorado

Why is Toronto's part of the experience going to be different than everywhere else this happened?

Why isn't current high levels of pot use leading to "mayhem" and what pressure will make more "mayhem" over today's levels in the future? Wouldn't a reduction of income for criminal parties be a brake of sorts on the power of criminal gangs and their ability to raise revenue?

Shouldnt there - actually - be less mayhem around pot?

Imagine all the families not broken up for silly arrests for something that doesn't hurt anyone. What about THAT mayhem?
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
His Royal Hurt Bag Highness JamesM spouting off about drugs and alcohol creating a mess?

ha-ha-ha-ha-now-thats-funny.jpg
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
Ah deleted posts?

Too bad he deleted the one about all kinds of new people "getting addicted"

marijuana-not-even-once_o_6145469.jpg



85328143.jpg


vmarljuana-what-will-your-mother-say-when-she-finds-your-25278709.png


03cWS8d.jpg
 
They maybe fucking it up, but think down the road in a few years (eleciton time) - they could loosen up the laws to curry some favor with voters. Sort of like how Conservatives came up with Pierre Poliveau's tax breaks came up right before their election. Switch the laws over to more like how liquor got loosened up and some voters will forget the bullshit at the start.

I don't like a lot of the shit they've done - they're absolutely clueless on how to deal with edibles it seems.
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
Yep - but its a move away from criminalization.

Heck - drinking laws are still messed up. And they were even more messed up in the 90s. More messed up in the 80s.

Before that sections of this town were dry.

It takes time - we are at least moving in the right direction.

I agree its dumb as fuck - but we're ontario. Thats no more than we deserve.

I'm looking forward to the price break on my habit. Already seeing the price breaks from increased competition in the grey market. Heartened by signs from Colorado and Washington - prices there are now less than $6 a gram.

The control here in Ontario means our curve should be slower, but still there.

Each decade the pot laws should get better and better - as long as we keep out the retrogrades who want to turn back the clock and be such frickin 'Tough Guys' on drugs
good luck on 6 buck grams. i would expect it to be massively overpriced and a pain in the ass. dealers have already smartened up and deliver, have lots of strains, edibles and good pricing. they floated their cocktail napkin plan to try to shift the news from the two trials they are involved in and to get the union on their side. just take a look at all the policies they have come up with and tell me what makes you think they wont fuck this up just as badly?
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
My weed is already cheaper year over year.

The trend has started. Are you still paying chump prices?
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
My weed is already cheaper year over year.

The trend has started. Are you still paying chump prices?
are you getting it from the government at a unionized shop that has opened up that i didnt know about|? did you just gloss over the part of the reply that said the dealers have already changed up their game?
i got a guy who delivers and i hit a dispensary that doesnt require a prescription
 

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
Then there's this...

The Liberal Party elite is heavily invested in the medical marijuana Licensed Producers mail-order business

April 11, 2017 potfacts Economic Pot Facts, Political Pot Facts 0

Screen-Shot-2017-04-11-at-8.37.34-PM-678x381.png

McLellan is engaged by the law firm Bennett Jones LLP, that describes itself as a ‘very entrepreneurial law firm’ that wants to be the ‘go to’ law firm for licensed producers (LPs) of marijuana in Canada.

This is what should disqualify McLellan for the appearance of a conflict of interest. But then Justin Trudeau was first introduced to “legalization” by Tweed Marijuana licensed producer cofounder ChuckRifici, who has gotten rich as a consequence of his investment in his LP, and who has been agitating for all competing dispensaries and cannabis sellers to be arrested and shut down. Rifici is also the chief financial officer of the Liberal Party of Canada. McLellan’s place of employment openly seeks licensed providers to represent while she maintains impartiality on this task force.

And it’s not just the chairperson of the Task Force who is facing a conflict of interest. A long list of Liberal Party insiders and government officials connected to the cannabis economy has been circulating around social media:

  • Chuck Rifici, is currently the CFO of the Liberal Party of Canada. – founder and former CEO of Tweed
  • Mark Zekulin, CEO of Tweed – former senior adviser to former Ontario finance minister Dwight Duncan
  • Norman Inkster, Independent Director at Mettrum – former head of the RCMP
  • Dr. Joshua Tepper, Independent Director at Mettrum – formerly Assistant Deputy Minister at the Ministry of Health , Senior Medical Officer for Health Canada,
  • Tom Shipley, Director of Quality Assurance, Tweed – formerly worked on toxicology research, while at Health Canada,
  • Mike Harcourt, Chairman of True Leaf Medicine Inc – former B.C. Premier
  • Kash Heed, strategic consultant with National Green BioMed – Former B.C. Solicitor General and former West Vancouver police chief
  • Herb Dhaliwal, Chairman, National Green BioMed – former Vancouver MP and federal cabinet minister.
  • Neil Belot, Board of Directors for Aurora – was a public servant in several ministries within the Ontario government
  • Brian Wagner, Company founder and CEO of NHP Consulting (consults for prospective LP’s) – Brian was invited to play a strong role in Health Canada’s Program Advisory Committee
  • Tim Humberstone, ABcann Director / Senior Person in Charge – former twenty year member of the RCMP included roles in Municipal/Federal Drug Enforcement and with the Joint Forces Organized Crime Agency. Tim has also received extensive training by the RCMP in providing expert court opinion in the fields of cannabis trafficking and production techniques.
  • Ivan Vrana, founder of Aslan Ross Consulting / speaker mmpr summit – Previously Mr. Vrána worked for the Federal Government for over 15 years. He worked at the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, Finance Canada and in various senior policy positions at Health Canada. At Health Canada he was in charge of the team that developed the policy rationale which led to the implementation of the Marihuana for Medical Purposes Regulations. Mr. Vrána is also a regular Lecturer at both Carleton and Concordia universities and teaches a course that examines the internal communication tools governments use to development and implement public policy.
  • Sandy Pratt, Chief Financial Officer, Emerald Health – Worked at Deloitte (auditing firm involved in the senate scandal), Vice President of Business Development and Executive Financial Officer of the Royal British Columbia Museum, a Crown corporation.
  • Shane Morris, VP, Scientific Affairs and Stakeholder Relations Hydropothecary CEO (now Canadian Cannabis Corp.) – Since 2000 Shane has been in a range of leadership roles within the Federal Government, from Treasury Board of Canada’s senior advisor (Cabinet Operations) on regulatory affairs to director of policy leadership and Reporting for Resources Canada’s major projects management office.
  • George Smitherman, THC BioMed – former Ontario Liberal Deputy Premier with more than 30 years in public policy fields at the Municipal, Provincial and Federal Level, where roles as Senior Advisor, Minister of Energy and Infrastructure and Ontario’s Minister of Health were held.
  • Jake Ryan, Director of Security: Tilray – former RCMP Intelligence Officer and federal criminal investigator overseeing all aspects of Tilray’s security protocols and operations.
  • Ernie Eves, Chairman, Timeless Herbal Care, a Jamaican medical marijuana company – former Progressive Conservative premier of Ontario
  • Kim Derry, a promoter of marijuana facility THC Meds Ontario Inc. – Deputy chief of the Toronto Police Service under Mr. Blair.
  • John Reynolds, advisor to Vodis Innovative Pharmaceuticals Inc – former MP with the Progressive Conservative, Reform and Canadian Alliance parties
  • Senator Larry Campbell, advisor to Vodis Innovative Pharmaceuticals Inc. – former Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer and Vancouver mayor. And sitting Senator.
  • Barry Daniel, Wildflower’s head of security – Former Abbotsford police chief.
  • Cam Battley, Aurora Senior Vice President, Communications and Medical Affairs – Former Legislative Assistant to the Canadian Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, where he was responsible for developing legislation and steering it through the House of Commons, as well as negotiating with Opposition parties and stakeholder groups.
  • John Turner, medicinal marijuana applicant in Ontario (With Kash Heed) – Former Prime Minister of Canada.
The Toronto Sun has fact-checked and published part of the list.

Even police officers have been getting into the game.

“A Durham police officer for six months co-owned a medical marijuana company that is not licensed and offers consumers pot brownies and other products the government says are illegal to sell.”

These establishment-type operations never seem to get raided, though – regardless of public harm.

from POTFACTS:
The Liberal Party elite is heavily invested in the medical marijuana Licensed Producers mail-order business
 
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ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
Then there's this...

The Liberal Party elite is heavily invested in the medical marijuana Licensed Producers mail-order business

April 11, 2017 potfacts Economic Pot Facts, Political Pot Facts 0

Screen-Shot-2017-04-11-at-8.37.34-PM-678x381.png

McLellan is engaged by the law firm Bennett Jones LLP, that describes itself as a ‘very entrepreneurial law firm’ that wants to be the ‘go to’ law firm for licensed producers (LPs) of marijuana in Canada.

This is what should disqualify McLellan for the appearance of a conflict of interest. But then Justin Trudeau was first introduced to “legalization” by Tweed Marijuana licensed producer cofounder ChuckRifici, who has gotten rich as a consequence of his investment in his LP, and who has been agitating for all competing dispensaries and cannabis sellers to be arrested and shut down. Rifici is also the chief financial officer of the Liberal Party of Canada. McLellan’s place of employment openly seeks licensed providers to represent while she maintains impartiality on this task force.

And it’s not just the chairperson of the Task Force who is facing a conflict of interest. A long list of Liberal Party insiders and government officials connected to the cannabis economy has been circulating around social media:

  • Chuck Rifici, is currently the CFO of the Liberal Party of Canada. – founder and former CEO of Tweed
  • Mark Zekulin, CEO of Tweed – former senior adviser to former Ontario finance minister Dwight Duncan
  • Norman Inkster, Independent Director at Mettrum – former head of the RCMP
  • Dr. Joshua Tepper, Independent Director at Mettrum – formerly Assistant Deputy Minister at the Ministry of Health , Senior Medical Officer for Health Canada,
  • Tom Shipley, Director of Quality Assurance, Tweed – formerly worked on toxicology research, while at Health Canada,
  • Mike Harcourt, Chairman of True Leaf Medicine Inc – former B.C. Premier
  • Kash Heed, strategic consultant with National Green BioMed – Former B.C. Solicitor General and former West Vancouver police chief
  • Herb Dhaliwal, Chairman, National Green BioMed – former Vancouver MP and federal cabinet minister.
  • Neil Belot, Board of Directors for Aurora – was a public servant in several ministries within the Ontario government
  • Brian Wagner, Company founder and CEO of NHP Consulting (consults for prospective LP’s) – Brian was invited to play a strong role in Health Canada’s Program Advisory Committee
  • Tim Humberstone, ABcann Director / Senior Person in Charge – former twenty year member of the RCMP included roles in Municipal/Federal Drug Enforcement and with the Joint Forces Organized Crime Agency. Tim has also received extensive training by the RCMP in providing expert court opinion in the fields of cannabis trafficking and production techniques.
  • Ivan Vrana, founder of Aslan Ross Consulting / speaker mmpr summit – Previously Mr. Vrána worked for the Federal Government for over 15 years. He worked at the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, Finance Canada and in various senior policy positions at Health Canada. At Health Canada he was in charge of the team that developed the policy rationale which led to the implementation of the Marihuana for Medical Purposes Regulations. Mr. Vrána is also a regular Lecturer at both Carleton and Concordia universities and teaches a course that examines the internal communication tools governments use to development and implement public policy.
  • Sandy Pratt, Chief Financial Officer, Emerald Health – Worked at Deloitte (auditing firm involved in the senate scandal), Vice President of Business Development and Executive Financial Officer of the Royal British Columbia Museum, a Crown corporation.
  • Shane Morris, VP, Scientific Affairs and Stakeholder Relations Hydropothecary CEO (now Canadian Cannabis Corp.) – Since 2000 Shane has been in a range of leadership roles within the Federal Government, from Treasury Board of Canada’s senior advisor (Cabinet Operations) on regulatory affairs to director of policy leadership and Reporting for Resources Canada’s major projects management office.
  • George Smitherman, THC BioMed – former Ontario Liberal Deputy Premier with more than 30 years in public policy fields at the Municipal, Provincial and Federal Level, where roles as Senior Advisor, Minister of Energy and Infrastructure and Ontario’s Minister of Health were held.
  • Jake Ryan, Director of Security: Tilray – former RCMP Intelligence Officer and federal criminal investigator overseeing all aspects of Tilray’s security protocols and operations.
  • Ernie Eves, Chairman, Timeless Herbal Care, a Jamaican medical marijuana company – former Progressive Conservative premier of Ontario
  • Kim Derry, a promoter of marijuana facility THC Meds Ontario Inc. – Deputy chief of the Toronto Police Service under Mr. Blair.
  • John Reynolds, advisor to Vodis Innovative Pharmaceuticals Inc – former MP with the Progressive Conservative, Reform and Canadian Alliance parties
  • Senator Larry Campbell, advisor to Vodis Innovative Pharmaceuticals Inc. – former Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer and Vancouver mayor. And sitting Senator.
  • Barry Daniel, Wildflower’s head of security – Former Abbotsford police chief.
  • Cam Battley, Aurora Senior Vice President, Communications and Medical Affairs – Former Legislative Assistant to the Canadian Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, where he was responsible for developing legislation and steering it through the House of Commons, as well as negotiating with Opposition parties and stakeholder groups.
  • John Turner, medicinal marijuana applicant in Ontario (With Kash Heed) – Former Prime Minister of Canada.
The Toronto Sun has fact-checked and published part of the list.

Even police officers have been getting into the game.

“A Durham police officer for six months co-owned a medical marijuana company that is not licensed and offers consumers pot brownies and other products the government says are illegal to sell.”

These establishment-type operations never seem to get raided, though – regardless of public harm.

from POTFACTS:
The Liberal Party elite is heavily invested in the medical marijuana Licensed Producers mail-order business
i am fucking blown away by that list.
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
i am fucking blown away by that list.
i dont believe that. you have been following the liberals and their sleaze for years. this is just par for the course. slitherman should be the minister of sleaze, ehealth and ornge were some of his brilliant ideas and ministries he ran into the ground
 

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
COMMENTARY: Ontario and the no good, horrible, very bad marijuana plan

Rob Breakenridge


16997358.jpg

Minister of Finance, Charles Sousa, centre, Attorney General, Yasir Naqvi, right, and Minister of Health and Long-Term Care, Eric Hoskins speak during a press conference where they detailed Ontario's solution for recreational marijuana sales, in Toronto last Friday. Christopher Katsarov / The Canadian Press
I’d have great difficulty thinking of questions to which the answer is “create a government monopoly,” but certainly “how should we legalize marijuana?” would not be one of them.

It may well be that legalization in any form is still preferable to our prohibition status quo, but Ontario’s plan to create government-run stores under the auspices of the bureaucracy known as the LCBO is probably about as bad a plan as one could conceive.

For one, it’s a rather costly scheme, both in terms of the creation of a whole new level of bureaucracy and infrastructure, and the forthcoming effort to shut down dozens upon dozens of marijuana dispensaries.

Ontario Attorney-General Yasir Naqvi says the plan will help them accomplish one of their goals, which is to “stop the sale of illegal, unregulated and unsafe cannabis.” However, this is not the purpose of legalization, nor does it follow that a government monopoly is a necessary requirement to achieving such outcomes.

The point of legalization is to stop punishing consenting adults, to keep marijuana out of the hands of kids, and to eliminate the black market. Not only does Ontario’s plan do little to achieve any of those ends, it may, in fact, prove to be counterproductive, in particular when it comes to the black market.

In Ontario’s case, it would be relatively simple and straightforward to licence and regulate the existing marijuana retail structure, also known as dispensaries. With the stroke of a pen, they would no longer be illegal or unregulated — checking off two of the Ontario government’s three boxes. And once we have licensed and regulated suppliers and retailers, there’s no reason to fear “unsafe” cannabis.

What matters are the regulations — number and location of stores, hours of operation, not selling to minors, etc. — not whether the store itself is union-run and government operated. It’s hard to see how anyone benefits from this scheme other than the government itself and its public sector unions.

We seem to be forgetting that we’ve got the experience of legalization in Colorado and Washington state to draw upon. Neither of those jurisdictions established anything like what Ontario is proposing nor has the experience there offered any reason whatsoever to think that a government monopoly is needed.

Earlier this week, in fact, a House of Commons committee heard evidence about just how effective Colorado’s model has been. An expert from the University of Denver told MPs about how his state is now debating a price floor for marijuana, as prices have dropped considerably. That, in turn, has put a huge dent in the black market. Seems like something we might want to emulate.

It’s true that this archaic model of retail still persists in parts of Canada when it comes to alcohol, but we’ve been slowly abandoning it. And we should be skeptical of it. Until recently, for example, Saskatchewan clung to the government monopoly model for liquor retail. Yet Saskatchewan has consistently had the highest rate of impaired driving of all the provinces and the among the highest rate of alcohol-related hospitalizations and other social harms.

Moreover, no one has ever suggested that we need to create a network of government-run stores to have a monopoly on the sale of cigarettes, lottery tickets, pornography, firearms, or anything else we don’t want kids purchasing. There’s no need to do so for marijuana, either.

Ontario gets some credit for at least having announced a plan, flawed as it is. For all the hand-wringing over the pace of legalization, these kinds of decisions needn’t take months and months. I fear, though, that the prospect of government control and happy public sector unions will seem all too tempting to other provinces, too.

Let’s try to get legalization right. This plan is not the way to achieve that.

Rob Breakenridge is host of “Afternoons with Rob Breakenridge” on Calgary’s NewsTalk 770 and a commentator for Global News.

COMMENTARY: Ontario and the no good, horrible, very bad marijuana plan
 
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basketballjones

TRIBE Member
Ontario's shitty plan > prohibition
those arent comparables. it isnt the ontario gov that is legalizing it, they are the ones who are going to completely fuck it up once it is legalized. you need ppl who smoke weed and are knowledgeable about it to be good sales ppl for it. i highly doubt when they start the new pot related union they will have those as qualifications on the applications.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Still better than shitty prohibition.

So ya, happy to see the incremental progress. In a few decades it will be way better.

Trust.

We don't have beer tents at public events anymore right?? Beer at the grocery store!
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
im very happy with the way things are now. though i wish i had a steady supply of the gummies since everyone i know who doesnt burn is all about them. anyone got a source for good gummies?
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
Still better than shitty prohibition.

So ya, happy to see the incremental progress. In a few decades it will be way better.

Trust.

We don't have beer tents at public events anymore right?? Beer at the grocery store!
what events have you been to? i find it hilarious i can walk around the boat show with a beer but go to a concert and its soviet plus style of getting a beer.

and now this....totally believable of course


Pot will be 'competitively priced' in Ontario: Gov't

Ontario has been pushing up taxes on cigarettes for years as a strategy to discourage smoking.

But while the percentage of smokers is generally on the decline, the contraband tobacco market has flourished

lets not talk about that since it involves indigenous ppl...so we will just pretend it isnt happening and do nothing...like caledonia.

drug dealers dont have unions to buy off or brick and mortar stores to run so good luck with that

oh yeah, trudeau might legalize it, but he will leave all of the problems up to each province to deal with but will accept all the twitter likes for being so progressive even though he gives not one fuck how it all washes out
 
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