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Canadian Conservative Party

kyfe

TRIBE Member
To each their own. I would rather the SIS approach be bolstered with those things you suggest, rather than replaced.

I'm not saying get rid of it, but it does seem like they people running it and the city have 0 control.
more needs to be done and just running a SIS like a retail location is not the answer. There is no way you are going to convince someone who is constantly high to curb or stop their use, before you can even get there you need to get them sober.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
I'm not saying get rid of it, but it does seem like they people running it and the city have 0 control.
more needs to be done and just running a SIS like a retail location is not the answer. There is no way you are going to convince someone who is constantly high to curb or stop their use, before you can even get there you need to get them sober.
Question is imagine we had no SIS, how many dirty needles and people getting help would there be and how many OD deaths would there be?

Studies have shown on needle debris, healthy practises among the addicted, od deaths - all these are shown to be improved when you have SIS, worse when you don't.

Your anecdotal observations can't account for these broader benefits of SIS, you may only be seeing needles around the SIS when absent the SIS an even greater number of needles would be found in pockets across the city and in parks.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
^^ and that's really the big issue here, conservative policy on this is based on anecdotes, not sound science.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
The point is that SIS reduce needle debris across a city but it may be possible that near an SIS the sight of needles is more commonly found than before the SIS opened in that particular corner right.

But these clinics do hundreds of thousands of injections every year. That's hundreds of thousands where EVERY needle is disposed of properly.

The same number drives an ancillary benefit: the hundreds of thousands of injections are moments for education on best practises. Studies show SIS does induce better behaviour in the addict population vs no SIS clinic cities. Its not perfect, we're talking statistically significant differences but we're not talking a panacea.

Nonetheless, it stands to reason on these two connected rationales that needle debris would be worse absent an SIS network in the city. Hundreds of thousands more opportunities for careless practises in the addict population with less mechanisms at work to change those practises would mean worse needle debris (among other, worse costs to the city: bigger disease reservoirs / more death and lost opportunity, etc)
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
Ok I think you all know based on my history I do support SIS, they are necessity created by government inaction for far too long.
yes my evidence in anecdotal but It has only gotten worse in the 5 years I've been stationed at Dundas and Jarvis. I encourage each of you to go to the TPH location by Ryerson, it is eye opening and every day what you see gets more and more vile. The junkies are taking over and becoming emboldened, they accost pedestrians and tourists daily. I know the guys who deal outside TPH I've seen them enough to know and they are the only ones not high. Yesterday I saw them cutting product and creating parachutes for the junkies to purchase. WHY are they not being arrested, it's so blaitant yet security does nothing and the police are nowhere to be seen or susually driving by.

Once solution regarding SIS might be to have them inject inside onsite before they leave instead of handing it to them and expecting them to properly dispose of
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
It must be multi-prong'd.

I know the depths of the fentanyl crisis. And crack. I roll through the streets at 0500 on my way to the downtown YMCA. I think junkies need way more than SIS and some Detoxification centres.

The question is, who's gonna vote for, or even sign on & step up to pay, manage, administrator for the whole enchilada? The moral authority/Jesus Freaks in the Conservative ranks???
 
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Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
Kyfe, go by the scene that is Seaton House on George Street. Or Moss Park.

Beginning to address addiction issues is not a simple quick fix.
 
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kyfe

TRIBE Member
Kyfe, go by the scene that is Seaton House on George Street. Or Moss Park.

Beginning to address addiction issues is not a simple quick fix.
I'm aware, and you're right not a simple fix and it will take several initiatives working in conjuction

one idea I've been throwing around is drying them out (however that is done) and then connecting them with John Howard and other groups that can assist with re-integration, helping them find living arrangements, helping with education, jobs etc.

You still keep the SIS open and slowly transition to rehab/integration, the SIS is a necessity and something we need because we as a society were not proactive when this started to become an issue
 

Mondieu

TRIBE Member
I'm aware, and you're right not a simple fix and it will take several initiatives working in conjuction

one idea I've been throwing around is drying them out (however that is done) and then connecting them with John Howard and other groups that can assist with re-integration, helping them find living arrangements, helping with education, jobs etc.

You still keep the SIS open and slowly transition to rehab/integration, the SIS is a necessity and something we need because we as a society were not proactive when this started to become an issue
It is a multi-faceted issue but the notion that there are places for addicts to go to “dry-out” and then transition is a farce in this city.

There’s a massive waiting list for affordable housing because they keep tearing them down for condos and relocating those who live there to other properties. Said properties and neighbourhoods are not conducive to staying clean, Rents in Toronto start around $1250 for a decent bachelor in a condo. NOBODY is renting their illegal basement for any less. ...and nobody is renting their basement to a recovering addict.

The training provided for jobs is a joke and the only jobs one might find after said training - are minimum wage or below.

Places like the John Howard Society do their best to help those in transition but they’re grossly underfunded. ...and they’re merely a stepping stone in he gross and scope.

Harm reduction is what this city has come up with to deal with the brutality faced by people who’ve hit the bottom in a place where there’s no middle.

There’s no real hand-up. There are only hand-outs and a commitment to shuffling people under the rug or onto the grates above the subway lines. That’s a decision that was made long ago and has been ballooning as a problem and biting our town in the ass, ever since.

...and those who “have”, those with $1.2 million dollar mortgages on their shitty little, crooked-ass semi-detached squats exhibit an ever-increasing level of NIMBYism.

We’re taking about people here. ...and those with mortgages, dog-walkers and triple-wide strollers, walked by their nannies, had best pony-up to the fact that those people are as much a part of their communities as the dogs and children they so deeply care for. ...folks who walk past addicts and the homeless, on their way to buy bespoke lattes at their local shop. You know... the one that used to be housing for the less fortunate.

Fuck off with this shit. It’s not going ANYWHERE. ...and there’s “drying out”, recovery or moving forward until we’re ALL on board.

It just gets uglier.
 

Mondieu

TRIBE Member
New CPC theme-song was just released. “Get Ahead” was written by longtime Bryan Adams songwriter, Jim Vallance. He started in PRISM and was a monster of the charts in the 80s (Adams, Aerosmith, Europe, Ozzy, Kiss, etc). I peg this around ‘87 as far as the sound and production go. It was garbage then and it certainly hasn’t aged like a fine scotch.

It’s got crappy, “heard it before” riffing, crowd-sung “Woah’s” and lyrics as vapid as you’d expect for a track that’s been commissioned for a slack-jawed, over-breeding son-of-a-deacon. Really cutting edge stuff! Sure to sway you, if you’re on the fence.

Would be interesting to know how much Jim got paid to produce this gruel-thin rehash of his old shit.

There’s a terrible video of the reveal in this article. You’ll get the idea. ...or you can wait for the soon to be released video! Lol!

 
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Mondieu

TRIBE Member
To be fair to Clement it's not the job of the opposition to formulate policy. there's no need to do anything but point out what they believe the sitting government is NOT DOING.
I’ve watched that shit-show a couple of times and am howling at the weakness of the whole charade. The song. The location. The off-time clapping at the podium. The dude in the black shirt and sunglasses who adjusts the microphone and then walks away like he’s part of the secret service. Scheer’s practice of timing. Which part of the song he should he step off the bus to, for maximum effect?

Apparently an aide told him, “Always go with the solo sir. Right before the guitar solo.”

There’s also the fact that there are more media there than CPC members. I really don’t know how they think the look and sound but I bet it’s not like they think they look and sound.
 

Mondieu

TRIBE Member
...and the “Woah’s” were killing me. So familiar. Just a step away from Rock and Hyde’s “Dirty Water”. Then I realized that Marty Higgs (aka Jim Vallance) was in the Payolas with Bob Rock as well. No wonder the song sounds like a mash-up of 80s Can-Rock. Haha!
 
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formerly

New Member
Question is imagine we had no SIS, how many dirty needles and people getting help would there be and how many OD deaths would there be?

Studies have shown on needle debris, healthy practises among the addicted, od deaths - all these are shown to be improved when you have SIS, worse when you don't.

Your anecdotal observations can't account for these broader benefits of SIS, you may only be seeing needles around the SIS when absent the SIS an even greater number of needles would be found in pockets across the city and in parks.
There shouldn't need to be an either/or when it comes to SIS. It saves lives as you've pointed out many times, and it also creates an unsafe environment in the immediate vicinity of these places. And it's not just Kyfe with these anecdotes, as many people have made very similar comments.
 
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