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Bullshit Alert: TTC Shooting on Saturday

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by MoFo, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    The shooting of a T.T.C. bus driver has inspired both officials and the public to appeal for safer streets, even though a plan to add cameras to all vehicles probably wouldn’t have helped to catch those responsible for this latest violent act.

    The 41-year-old driver was stopped along the Morningside 116 route near Finch Ave. and Sewells Road as a fight broke out among five men in their 20s at about 11:30pm Saturday.

    Two men got on the bus and one of the suspects involved in the dispute reportedly fired at them but hit the driver in the face instead, the stray bullet passing through both cheeks.

    The driver was rushed to Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre where he underwent emergency surgery. Though he'll survive, there’s worry he could still lose an eye.

    Police say they’re looking for at least two men in connection with the crime. One man who boarded the bus should have an injured lip and might be walking with a limp.

    It's the first time a T.T.C. driver has been shot, which concerns Bob Kinnear, president of Local 113 of the Amalgamated Transit Union.

    "I think the crime level in this city is escalating at a pace that we better get on top of it or it's going to get out of control, as it has in many American cities," he asserted.

    "Judging by the number of incidents that have occurred over the last year, I think it's time the upper levels of government ... get involved and ensure that the residents of Toronto have a safe city in which they can walk the streets."

    Those living in the area of this latest shooting were understandably upset.

    "It's very bad. Very bad. I am also scared (because) I am living nearby. It's very bad," said area resident Sathaya Jayapalan.

    One woman who relies on the T.T.C. to get places said she felt nervous.

    "I didn't want to take the bus this morning," said Monika Constantine. "But my mom said 'Get up (and) go, it probably won't happen again.'"

    Another resident, who wished to be identified only as Ian, felt frustration with the latest act of bloodshed on city streets.

    "It makes me fed up," he admitted. "There are a whole lot of things that need to be done. Our youth need direction."

    Kinnear, Mayor David Miller, police Chief Bill Blair and T.T.C. chair Howard Moscoe visited the married father of two in hospital over the weekend. The driver, who didn’t want to be named, has been working for the transit commission for eight years.

    "(It was a) very emotional experience," Moscoe said. "He wasn't able to speak but he gave me a reassuring squeeze."

    Moscoe said that even though plans are in place to have security cameras installed in all vehicles by the end of the year, because the suspect fired the shot from outside the bus, he wouldn’t have been caught on tape.

    "There's no camera in the world that would have prevented this from happening," Moscoe said.

    "We're going to do everything we can to make the T.T.C. as safe as possible, but the truth of the matter is, nobody can protect against random acts of violence."

    Miller was disgusted by the shooting and said police are working hard to bring in those responsible.

    "I think like every Torontonian I'm very shocked," he said. "Every effort is going to be made to ensure the people responsible are going to be put behind bars."
     
  2. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    My take on this when I heard about this this morning: why do the many systems of government and organizations like the TTC always make bullshit statements about how to deter crime? They aren't crime specialists! They're not doing much in terms of youth relations even.


    It's all a crock of BULLSHIT.

    I am so sick of these cyclical (is this a word?) reactions to these heinous crimes.

    Man gets shot. Media goes nuts. Man's employer goes nuts. Nothing is done. Man gets shot again. Media goes nuts. Nothing gets done...

    Are people going to wake up and smell the gun powder? Putting up cameras ain't gonna stop these crimes. In fact, all this money we are putting into security and the hiring of more cops should be put into housing, community programming and employment strategies. Where are the long term solutions?

    This is another example of why this world is going straight to hell.
     
  3. Subsonic Chronic

    Subsonic Chronic TRIBE Member

    I'm so disgusted with the news coverage of this. They'll say on the one hand that "this is the worst injury to ever happen to a TTC driver while on the job" and then in the same breath they'll question the safety of the TTC and whether this is a sign that all drivers are now targets, or that the system is falling apart into crime-ridden chaos.

    *thumbs down*
     
  4. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    I know!
    The guy was shot by accident. It wasn't a TTC isolated incident. It's not like the guys wouldn't pay and there was a dispute. The dude got hit by a stray bullet! It has NOTHING to do with TTC security.

    It has to do with youth in the city who are turning to other outlets because they have 1) nothing to do, 2) nowhere to go, 3) nothing positive to look forward to, 4) a system that aims to punish punish punish.

    Waita cultivate a generation of gunmen, Toronto.
     
  5. janiecakes

    janiecakes TRIBE Member

    a driver gets shot in the face on the job and it has nothing to do with TTC security? it doesn't matter that it was a stray bullet you weirdo.

    i agree with you about housing & community and employment programs, but i still support cameras on TTC vehicles (and in cop cars too).
     
  6. deevah

    deevah TRIBE Member

    i'm with ya on this

    gov't keeps cutting back programs from schools to keep kids busy - idle hands make something something....

    this doesn't need a bandaid soln - getting rid of guns/violent crime is a daunting task. It requires something more than "Hey Hand in your Guns! Guns are bad m'kay?". There's a lack of outlets for kids especially in LES areas - give them something else to do!
     
  7. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    These are the types of comments that enrage me even more. What are you, a fucking idiot? No. You just have idiot media organizations and retarded TTC people who are fucking idiots running this city.
     
  8. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    Aren't we trying to PREVENT people from getting shot? So if the solution is to put up cameras, why don't we put up cameras in every single area of this city? So no square foot is unsurveyed?

    Oh wait, we already do. And oh wait, people are still picking up guns and shooting.

    So this might lessen the amount of TTC shootings as people don't want to be caught. By how much? I'd like to see the stats on the relation between the installment of cameras to the significant decrease in incidents. Doesn't stop shootings from happening OFF a bus or shootings as a whole I would presume.

    I'm all for cameras. Sure, put them there if you have a money. But what about the other solutions?

    A report JUST came out this week stating that our crime rate is closely related to youth unemployment. I'd like to see if anything comes out of that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2005
  9. rizzlah

    rizzlah TRIBE Member

    thats my bus.
     
  10. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    Really? Omg, you better be careful because you might just get shot. I would avoid riding that bus until they set up a camera.

    I know a person who rides the TTC. I hope she's okay.
     
  11. AshG

    AshG Member

    "He(Mosoe) cited a 40 per cent drop off in crimes against taxi drivers since the city introduced cameras in Toronto cabs."
    - Metronews.

    I agree with most of what you're saying Sunny, but since you asked....
     
  12. Big Cheese

    Big Cheese TRIBE Member

    thank you, i was gonna go off something fierce but that'll do


    everyone runs their mouth like these kids have nothing to do because there is no funding for special programs blah blah blah so they turn to a life of thuggin and crime because they don't have a rec center or after school programs. *lol*

    wtf?

    sure, if they are 11 years old and have nothing better to do then play ball in one of the gazillion courts in the city and are forced to watch people hustle all day/night. the fools that pack steel are the same fools that are packing because they sell drugs, or want to get back @ someone for some next beef they have. these guys are late teens early 20's, not kids. i can bet my left foot that if these simple fucks knew there were video cameras they'd think twice about pulling a stunt like that, especially in such a public place.

    more cameras (on/off board ttc vehicles), more foot patrols in high risk areas = asshats coming to the realization that they cannot and will not get away with shit like that
     
  13. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    Hence, why I'm for the cameras. Nothin' to lose.
    But those are isolated incidents involving a dispute between the cabbie and a violent rider, right?

    I'm criticizing the logic of the TTC demanding a safer environment for their drivers when there wasn't even a conflict between the driver and the shooter in the first place.
    That guy would've sprayed bullets regardless of whether he was on a TTC bus or in a park or in someone's house.
    If we followed the logic of what people are saying about crime prevention, then we should install cameras in our own homes and in parks.

    So basically if this driver wasn't shot in the first place, the TTC would just on their merry way as long as none of their drivers were shot. But who fucking cares about the rest of the city, right?

    BULLSHIT.

    (Not directed at you, Mike. Just venting as I read more articles on this)
     
  14. why not

    why not TRIBE Member


    that's kind of different though - i would imagine most violence against cab drivers come from robberies, which aren't very common on the TTC.

    "put your hands in the air and give me all your tokens!"
     
  15. MoFo

    MoFo TRIBE Member

    That is such a fucking load of motherfuckin' passive aggressive bullshit. They ARE kids. Being in your early 20's and goin' around shootin' people doesn't suggest to me that they've developed much since their teens. They're not James Bond. They're misguided asshats who decided to take up a life of crime because the SYSTEM failed them.

    You're talking like guns are a rarity and only the truly idiotic and the truly evil are accessing them. Well, I'll tell ya, I can go to a schoolyard at Weston and Lawrence and get one myself if I thought I needed one.

    Youth don't just turn 22 and decide to kill other people. Obviously, it starts earlier than that.
     
  16. AshG

    AshG Member

    yeah i realize that but failing any other available stats on public transportation, its the closest comparison.
     
  17. Aerius Zension

    Aerius Zension TRIBE Member

    Ha, he's in my wife's unit at Sunnybrook. Too bad.
     
  18. Chaos

    Chaos TRIBE Member

    Did you learn absolutely nothing from the London subway bombings?

    It's the most CCTV-ed city in the world and yet a small group of men managed to bomb the fuck outta what, 3 or 4 different locations?

    If you really think a camera on the bus would have somehow prevented a STRAY bullet from hitting this driver than your head is stuck so far up your own ass there's no chance of recovery.


    That guy win Scarborough who got killed sitting in his house, by a stray bullet, would a camera in his house protected him?

    I'm agree with MoFo 100%, btw.

    c.
     
  19. Skipper

    Skipper TRIBE Member

    No we don't.
    You want to see survelliance...go to London. Toronto doesn't even compare to the big brother that's watching over there.
     
  20. Subsonic Chronic

    Subsonic Chronic TRIBE Member

    Although cameras wouldn't have prevented the shooting, they sure would have been helpful in catching up with one of the suspects/victims who got on the bus.

    You can't argue that it wouldn't have some value, even if it's not "prevention".
     
  21. Skipper

    Skipper TRIBE Member

    You can't look at each attack/incident in isolation though; CCTV was absolutely instrumental in capturing those involved with attempted bombing that followed the first one in June.

    How can you refute the idea that the CCTV has prevented further attacks since then?
     
  22. LivingRoomPornstar

    LivingRoomPornstar TRIBE Member

    I was watching a news at noon program today during my lunch hour(i think it was CTV), and they were calling the TTC driver a hero......for what? For losing half his face from a stray bullet?
    Although the crime itself makes me sick to my stomach, some of the melodramatic craptastic coverage has already made me puke in my mouth, a little.

    I am talking about CTV news though....their "Talkback Toronto" and local news coverage employs the most annoying reporting staff in the history of forever.
     
  23. Hypnotoad

    Hypnotoad TRIBE Member

    When did the age of being an *adult* change? I would say the system is doing just fine if these "kids" don't have to do anything when they are in fact adults.

    And when did adults(or kids I guess) have to no longer be responsible for themselves? The SYSTEM failed them? Give me a break. I am all for community involment with youth, but at some point, a child has to become an adult and be held responsible for their own actions. The system that failed these kids are their parents.

    If crime is linked to "youth" employment, who's fault is it that these youths don't have a job? Is it the state's responsibility to force a kid to take school seriously? No, that's a parent's job. Is it the state's responsibility to just give a youth a job? No, it's the youth's responsibility. A city or a community can make opportunities available, but you can't force a kid/adult to take advantage of those opportunities.

    You're right, it does start earlier, but at some point, we have to hold these ADULTS accountable. You cannot keep coddling them and telling them it's not their fault. It is their fault. They *chose* to lead a life that involves violence, and they need to be held accountable.
     
  24. acheron

    acheron TRIBE Member

    Yeah but only because their bombs didn't work. If they had, there wouldn't have been anyone around to catch.
     
  25. Big Cheese

    Big Cheese TRIBE Member

    the bombings were planned, with intricate details and months of prep. this guy got pissed over some beef and made the decision to pop off a couple of rounds into a bus. oh no a stray bullet! who gives a shit. if it wasn't a stray then what? then it hit the intended target and then same shit. rather then a ttc operator, it was a ttc rider who got hit. either way the cheesedick who pulled the trigger prob wouldn't have done what he did if he knew he would have been easier to catch him


    sunny, the only thing you'd get if you went up to weston looking to grab is alot of pointed fingers and laughter.

    Listen man, i'm not gonna jock you for the rage you're taking, i know you are passionate about your work and i'm glad there are people out there like you doing the work that you do, lord knows i couldn't do it. only because i've seen this kind of behavior for a long time man and I have no patience/tolerance for it. i've used after school programs and drop in centers myself all up until highschool. they only do so much, little if anything. Youre making it out like getting a weapon is as easy as just asking so and so and these kids that the system has let down have nothing better to do then run around and flash their shit. Serious man, check your self.

    all the social programs in the world ain't gonna settle someone out of hustling and living a certain lifestyle or portraying that lifestyle by doing stupid shit. they do it because they want not, not because they have no other choice, and everything else that goes along with it.

    you wanna keep fighting the good fight? make things safer? think and act with your head, not with your heart. making the city(and for the sake of keeping this thread on track) ttc property safer for everyone in the future requires more deterrents (such as) increased usage of cameras in high risk areas and a increased police presence in certain areas. People will feel safer riding public transit and walking to TTC property if they know people are less likely to commit a crime if the chances of them getting booked are higher. Its not bullshit @ all, its a step in the right direction.

    imho if dood knew he would have his mug snapped on a digi camera @ a shelter or on a bus, he would have never pulled and fired his gun. if he knew the area he was gonna book it to after the fact, had more police patrols or more cameras, he would not think that he could get away with it in the first place.
     

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