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Bombardier sucks

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
Public money for a private company that has done a lot of shady shit and screwed over mass transit riders and government balance sheets since time immemorial...

 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
As Jeffrey Jones writes, the deal “shows that, even after hundreds of millions of dollars in support from taxpayers, it will take the financial and marketing muscle of Europe's plane-making giant to do battle against both Boeing Co. and Donald Trump's Washington.”
 

acheron

TRIBE Member
Bombardier is such a shittily run company. Their products are pretty good. But they can't manage their way out of a paper bag. I hope they learn a few things from Airbus. More likely they won't but whatever.

I'm pretty happy about this deal as it's a huge fuck-you to Boeing and Trump and all that America First bullshit.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Airbus 'll set em straight.

Part of this is also a political story, on a few levels. Domestically it of course became a facet of money transfers, but money transfers with a goal right. Like for the last few hundred years, most nations (and especially Europe) recognized the need to have some local industry, else they would be beholden to someone else's industry.

Bombardier is kind of in a quasi national security industry in this sense - in war time, it could be quickly engaged to help with military production and help to move equipment and soldiers. For the he generation coming out of WWII they had a memory of these kind of needs we never had.

But it's also a story of a bit of a backwater in the globe, a middle power, attempting to have the trappings and acroutements of more powerful nations.

Airbus is well run, but it also had a much larger pool of people from which to draw talent for decades. National support for this in host nations like France didn't waver like it did over here in the 90s when free market mantra was all the rage.

Bombardier just, yknow, isn't on the same level as bigger competitors situated in much more wealthy, populous and powerful nations.

To get to that level you'd need a rare combination of luck and ingenuity we didn't possess.
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
Yeah, then maybe the Beaudoin-Bombardier family ought to be forced to get out as the controlling interest so it can be operated like a real public multinational?
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
LONDON - You've got to hand it to the brilliant, Machiavellian minds at
Airbus.

In one fell swoop, like an eagle swooping down on a dove, Airbus Group SE
has seized the world's most technologically advanced small passenger jet,
the Bombardier C Series, for nothing - as in zero, zilch, nada - even though
Bombardier Inc., with a little help from its government friends, had sunk
about $6-billion (U.S.) into developing the product. In doing so, Airbus has
neutered a potentially strong competitor and dealt a blow to arch-rival
Boeing Co., which has no plane that can compete with the C Series.

It gets better. Bombardier, not Airbus, is still on the hook for as much as
$700-million in funding for the C Series. Airbus doesn't even have to assume
any of Bombardier's debt, which has climbed in recent years to almost
$9-billion (Canadian), nearly double its market value. For Airbus, the deal
is money for nothing, C Series for free.

And by the way, Airbus, which is 11 per cent owned by the French government
and touted as a European corporate champion, had the sweet joy of exposing
U.S. President Donald Trump as a true chump. When the U.S. administration
slapped preliminary import tariffs of 300 per cent on the C Series a couple
of weeks ago, the plane was effectively shut out of the world's biggest
commercial jet market. Facing catastrophic losses on the slow-selling C
Series, poor, hapless Bombardier had no negotiating power. Airbus could
write the deal it wanted.

And yet you could argue that Bombardier made the best of an impossible
situation and that the Airbus deal actually presents good prospects for
Bombardier, for Quebec and for Canada.

The C Series is to be owned 50.01 per cent by Airbus, 31 per cent by
Bombardier and 19 per cent by the Quebec government, which in 2016 sunk
$1-billion (U.S.) into the project after it was overwhelmed by delays and
cost overruns.

The optimistic case says it's better for Bombardier and Quebec to own almost
half of a plane that stands a good chance of selling, now that Airbus's
formidable global marketing, financing and servicing power is behind it,
than 100 per cent of a plane that that was stuck in the hangar. In theory,
the C Series could sell a few thousand jets over its life span - the order
tally so far is only 350 - allowing Bombardier and Quebec to recoup their
investment, perhaps even earn a return on that investment.

The pessimistic case says that Bombardier and the taxpayers of Canada and
Quebec, who have propped up Bombardier in general and the C Series in
particular for years, got taken to the cleaners. This case is more
compelling.

Remember, the C Series is to become an Airbus product owned by a European
company with zero allegiance to Bombardier or Canada, even though it will be
happy to take Bombardier's $700-milllion to cover the C Series' losses for
the next two years. Might the Canadian or Quebec taxpayer be forced to cover
some of these losses? That scenario cannot be ruled out, all in the name of
protecting manufacturing jobs in Quebec.

Which leads us to Alabama, of all places. Airbus recently opened a plant in
the state to assemble the company's workhorse A320 jet for the North
American market. Airbus intends to add a C Series assembly line in Alabama
to serve the plane's U.S. customers and circumvent the Commerce Department's
murderous tariffs. (Though Boeing, which called for the tariffs, is bound to
use every one of its conniving ways to ensure any non-U.S. parts do not
enter the country duty-free.)

There is a reason that Airbus chose Alabama for its assembly plant; it's a
cheap place to do business, where "right to work" laws discourage unions.
You can bet that if Airbus finds it less expensive to pump out the C Series
in Alabama than Quebec, it will do everything in its power to transfer
production to Alabama, unless, of course, Quebec fights back. And how would
it do that? By offering to subsidize production north of the border to keep
Bombardier's Quebec jobs from vanishing into the night. Bombardier is
Quebec's, and Canada's, premier engineering and technology company. Quebec
won't let those jobs go easily.

Two years ago, Bombardier and Airbus spent months negotiating a deal that
reportedly would have seen Airbus finance the remaining development costs of
the C Series in exchange for a controlling stake in the project. Note the
date: It was a year before anyone could imagine that Donald Trump and his
"America First" agenda could take over the White House. (The deal went
nowhere.)

At the time, Bombardier had some negotiating power. But as soon as the C
Series got slammed with the tariffs, it was game over and Airbus was able to
negotiate a sweet deal that will see Bombardier - and perhaps the Canadian
and Quebec taxpayers - still write the cheques for a product over which it
has lost control.

Airbus was brilliant. It owns the finest piece of Canadian aerospace
technology on the market, and it got Bombardier to subsidize the deal.
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
buses on queen are a fuck ton better than street cars. all you have to do i ride a bus vs a streetcar to notice how much better buses are
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
19 weeks each to fix a defect of each of the new streetcars!
lol it's 4 months to essentially rebuild. There are buses on college and Dundas now. Are the old Red Rocket streetcars running anywhere? I only see the new Bombardier ones. There's likely gonna be some friction between the TTC and Bombardier.
 

SneakyPete

TRIBE Member
lol it's 4 months to essentially rebuild. There are buses on college and Dundas now. Are the old Red Rocket streetcars running anywhere? I only see the new Bombardier ones. There's likely gonna be some friction between the TTC and Bombardier.
They've been running buses on those lines for awhile now. I thought it was for construction, but it's for repairs?
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
The World Bank has accused Bombardier of corruption to win a contract in Azerbaijan


And the findings could lead to the Montreal-based company being blacklisted from projects by the international financial institution. An audit by the bank alleges Bombardier colluded with officials at Azerbaijan Railways to win a 2013 contract worth US$339-million, according to findings obtained by The Globe and Mail. For its part, Bombardier disputes the World Bank’s findings, which have not been proven.

  • Bombardier was made aware in advance of the project’s budget and priced its bid to fit that number exactly, winning the deal despite cheaper competing offers.
  • Bombardier paid a total of US$120-million to two shell companies, controlled by prominent figures in Russia’s rail industry, who in turn used their influence to ensure Bombardier won the contract in Azerbaijan.
  • The World Bank called the involvement of the two shell companies a “sham,” saying Bombardier paid one of them US$85-million “for no work.”
  • The audit says Bombardier took 15 months to hand over internal e-mails, and that one missing e-mail from a whistleblower was proof that knowledge of the problems extended to the company’s headquarters in Montreal.
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
Bombardier deal is a slap in the face for taxpayers: Editorial | Toronto Star

So what’s the bottom line in the deal that hands control of Bombardier’s struggling C Series airline project over to the European giant Airbus?

Just this: taxpayers in Canada have sunk well over a billion dollars into the venture for the privilege of subsidizing jobs making planes in Alabama.
BBD had been doing fine and the reorg will see it as a small manufacturer focused on market niches. They make great planes and trains but, from what I've read, have many delivery problems including the TTC street cars, Metrolinx, NYC, and several others around the world. The aircraft group was financially killed by CSeries which just couldn't get enough orders... until the program was bought for $1 and sold as an Airbus.
 
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