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Bombardier sucks

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by Bernnie Federko, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    Public money for a private company that has done a lot of shady shit and screwed over mass transit riders and government balance sheets since time immemorial...

     
  2. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    As Jeffrey Jones writes, the deal “shows that, even after hundreds of millions of dollars in support from taxpayers, it will take the financial and marketing muscle of Europe's plane-making giant to do battle against both Boeing Co. and Donald Trump's Washington.”
     
  3. acheron

    acheron TRIBE Member

    Bombardier is such a shittily run company. Their products are pretty good. But they can't manage their way out of a paper bag. I hope they learn a few things from Airbus. More likely they won't but whatever.

    I'm pretty happy about this deal as it's a huge fuck-you to Boeing and Trump and all that America First bullshit.
     
  4. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Airbus 'll set em straight.

    Part of this is also a political story, on a few levels. Domestically it of course became a facet of money transfers, but money transfers with a goal right. Like for the last few hundred years, most nations (and especially Europe) recognized the need to have some local industry, else they would be beholden to someone else's industry.

    Bombardier is kind of in a quasi national security industry in this sense - in war time, it could be quickly engaged to help with military production and help to move equipment and soldiers. For the he generation coming out of WWII they had a memory of these kind of needs we never had.

    But it's also a story of a bit of a backwater in the globe, a middle power, attempting to have the trappings and acroutements of more powerful nations.

    Airbus is well run, but it also had a much larger pool of people from which to draw talent for decades. National support for this in host nations like France didn't waver like it did over here in the 90s when free market mantra was all the rage.

    Bombardier just, yknow, isn't on the same level as bigger competitors situated in much more wealthy, populous and powerful nations.

    To get to that level you'd need a rare combination of luck and ingenuity we didn't possess.
     
  5. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    Yeah, then maybe the Beaudoin-Bombardier family ought to be forced to get out as the controlling interest so it can be operated like a real public multinational?
     
  6. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    LONDON - You've got to hand it to the brilliant, Machiavellian minds at
    Airbus.

    In one fell swoop, like an eagle swooping down on a dove, Airbus Group SE
    has seized the world's most technologically advanced small passenger jet,
    the Bombardier C Series, for nothing - as in zero, zilch, nada - even though
    Bombardier Inc., with a little help from its government friends, had sunk
    about $6-billion (U.S.) into developing the product. In doing so, Airbus has
    neutered a potentially strong competitor and dealt a blow to arch-rival
    Boeing Co., which has no plane that can compete with the C Series.

    It gets better. Bombardier, not Airbus, is still on the hook for as much as
    $700-million in funding for the C Series. Airbus doesn't even have to assume
    any of Bombardier's debt, which has climbed in recent years to almost
    $9-billion (Canadian), nearly double its market value. For Airbus, the deal
    is money for nothing, C Series for free.

    And by the way, Airbus, which is 11 per cent owned by the French government
    and touted as a European corporate champion, had the sweet joy of exposing
    U.S. President Donald Trump as a true chump. When the U.S. administration
    slapped preliminary import tariffs of 300 per cent on the C Series a couple
    of weeks ago, the plane was effectively shut out of the world's biggest
    commercial jet market. Facing catastrophic losses on the slow-selling C
    Series, poor, hapless Bombardier had no negotiating power. Airbus could
    write the deal it wanted.

    And yet you could argue that Bombardier made the best of an impossible
    situation and that the Airbus deal actually presents good prospects for
    Bombardier, for Quebec and for Canada.

    The C Series is to be owned 50.01 per cent by Airbus, 31 per cent by
    Bombardier and 19 per cent by the Quebec government, which in 2016 sunk
    $1-billion (U.S.) into the project after it was overwhelmed by delays and
    cost overruns.

    The optimistic case says it's better for Bombardier and Quebec to own almost
    half of a plane that stands a good chance of selling, now that Airbus's
    formidable global marketing, financing and servicing power is behind it,
    than 100 per cent of a plane that that was stuck in the hangar. In theory,
    the C Series could sell a few thousand jets over its life span - the order
    tally so far is only 350 - allowing Bombardier and Quebec to recoup their
    investment, perhaps even earn a return on that investment.

    The pessimistic case says that Bombardier and the taxpayers of Canada and
    Quebec, who have propped up Bombardier in general and the C Series in
    particular for years, got taken to the cleaners. This case is more
    compelling.

    Remember, the C Series is to become an Airbus product owned by a European
    company with zero allegiance to Bombardier or Canada, even though it will be
    happy to take Bombardier's $700-milllion to cover the C Series' losses for
    the next two years. Might the Canadian or Quebec taxpayer be forced to cover
    some of these losses? That scenario cannot be ruled out, all in the name of
    protecting manufacturing jobs in Quebec.

    Which leads us to Alabama, of all places. Airbus recently opened a plant in
    the state to assemble the company's workhorse A320 jet for the North
    American market. Airbus intends to add a C Series assembly line in Alabama
    to serve the plane's U.S. customers and circumvent the Commerce Department's
    murderous tariffs. (Though Boeing, which called for the tariffs, is bound to
    use every one of its conniving ways to ensure any non-U.S. parts do not
    enter the country duty-free.)

    There is a reason that Airbus chose Alabama for its assembly plant; it's a
    cheap place to do business, where "right to work" laws discourage unions.
    You can bet that if Airbus finds it less expensive to pump out the C Series
    in Alabama than Quebec, it will do everything in its power to transfer
    production to Alabama, unless, of course, Quebec fights back. And how would
    it do that? By offering to subsidize production north of the border to keep
    Bombardier's Quebec jobs from vanishing into the night. Bombardier is
    Quebec's, and Canada's, premier engineering and technology company. Quebec
    won't let those jobs go easily.

    Two years ago, Bombardier and Airbus spent months negotiating a deal that
    reportedly would have seen Airbus finance the remaining development costs of
    the C Series in exchange for a controlling stake in the project. Note the
    date: It was a year before anyone could imagine that Donald Trump and his
    "America First" agenda could take over the White House. (The deal went
    nowhere.)

    At the time, Bombardier had some negotiating power. But as soon as the C
    Series got slammed with the tariffs, it was game over and Airbus was able to
    negotiate a sweet deal that will see Bombardier - and perhaps the Canadian
    and Quebec taxpayers - still write the cheques for a product over which it
    has lost control.

    Airbus was brilliant. It owns the finest piece of Canadian aerospace
    technology on the market, and it got Bombardier to subsidize the deal.
     
  7. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

  8. wickedken

    wickedken TRIBE Member

    lol the Star getting uppity for tax payers.
     
  9. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

  10. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    buses on queen are a fuck ton better than street cars. all you have to do i ride a bus vs a streetcar to notice how much better buses are
     
  11. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

  12. SneakyPete

    SneakyPete TRIBE Member

  13. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    19 weeks each to fix a defect of each of the new streetcars!
     
  14. wickedken

    wickedken TRIBE Member

    lol it's 4 months to essentially rebuild. There are buses on college and Dundas now. Are the old Red Rocket streetcars running anywhere? I only see the new Bombardier ones. There's likely gonna be some friction between the TTC and Bombardier.
     
  15. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    Queen 501

     
  16. SneakyPete

    SneakyPete TRIBE Member

    They've been running buses on those lines for awhile now. I thought it was for construction, but it's for repairs?
     
  17. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    there they go again; Our tax dollars/bailout did wonders
     
  18. Bernnie Federko

    Bernnie Federko TRIBE Member

    The World Bank has accused Bombardier of corruption to win a contract in Azerbaijan


    And the findings could lead to the Montreal-based company being blacklisted from projects by the international financial institution. An audit by the bank alleges Bombardier colluded with officials at Azerbaijan Railways to win a 2013 contract worth US$339-million, according to findings obtained by The Globe and Mail. For its part, Bombardier disputes the World Bank’s findings, which have not been proven.

    • Bombardier was made aware in advance of the project’s budget and priced its bid to fit that number exactly, winning the deal despite cheaper competing offers.
    • Bombardier paid a total of US$120-million to two shell companies, controlled by prominent figures in Russia’s rail industry, who in turn used their influence to ensure Bombardier won the contract in Azerbaijan.
    • The World Bank called the involvement of the two shell companies a “sham,” saying Bombardier paid one of them US$85-million “for no work.”
    • The audit says Bombardier took 15 months to hand over internal e-mails, and that one missing e-mail from a whistleblower was proof that knowledge of the problems extended to the company’s headquarters in Montreal.
     
  19. ndrwrld

    ndrwrld TRIBE Member

    fuck Bombardier and SNC.
     
    Bernnie Federko likes this.
  20. ndrwrld

    ndrwrld TRIBE Member

  21. wickedken

    wickedken TRIBE Member

    Quite a roller coaster for BBD.
     

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