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Billy Bishop Airport

ravinjunkie

TRIBE Member
I do not know anything about Toronto Port Authority nor anything to do with how often ships dock e.t.c.

Why hasn't a bridge been built, so people can walk in between Toronto and the terminal?

Why must there be a piddly ferry that goes back and forth constantly throughout the day?

It seems rather stupid and wasteful that this ferry spitting out pollution could easily be replaced by a pedestrian bridge that opens/closes, when big ass ships need to come in.
 
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MoFo

TRIBE Member
I like the ferry. *shrug* But I'm also not traveling for business where all I have in my hand is a blazer and a small weekender.
 

Wiseman

TRIBE Member
lol at this thread. Do some googling on the bridge thing. David Miller won his mayoral election in large part to stopping a bridge from being built. There is a tunnel being built which is in itself kind of ridiculous for an Airport that according to a Tripartite agreement is supposed to be primarily for private Air traffic and "Limited Commercial STOL use" which technically the TPA and Porter are already in breach of considering almost all the flight slots go to Porter and you could not in any way define their current use as "Limited".

The current and future use of Billy Bishop is a pretty big and contentious issue right now. I'm not completely against Porter like some of the people in my neighbourhood (I live on Bathurst Quay) but it is definitely shady how they have shoehorned their business in there.
 

alison87

TRIBE Member
The way i understand it is that self-important condo-dwelling bitches are acting like whiney assed NIMBY 905ers, resulting in one of the largest cities in North America still only having two subway lines, an international airport that takes longer to get to than you spend in the air and an inner city airport "featuring" the shortest ferry crossing in the world. It'd be funny if we didn't actually live here.
 
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ravinjunkie

TRIBE Member
Holy shit, I had no idea.
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David Miller (Canadian politician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Waterfront policy
Toronto City Centre Airport Bridge

Soon after his election, Miller led the council to reverse its support for the Toronto City Centre Airport Bridge. He argued that the bridge was detrimental to the regional environment, was unwanted by most local residents, and stood in the way of a more comprehensive renewal of the waterfront economy. Supporters of the bridge argued that it would make airline service more efficient, and provide a financial benefit. The vote, held on December 3, 2003, was 32-12 in favour of withdrawal.[44] Afterwards, the federal government announced that it would withdraw its support for the project.[45] There were subsequent threats of legal action against the City by the Toronto Port Authority (TPA) and developer Robert Deluce, but these were settled in 2005 when the federal government agreed to pay $35 million in compensation.

The federal payment was controversial for both supporters and opponents of Miller's administration. Liberal MP Tony Ianno defended it as providing fair compensation to legitimate claimants, and saying that it invalidated Miller's pledge to cancel the bridge without incurring further expense.[46] Miller's allies, including NDP leader Jack Layton, argued that the payout was overly generous, and did not reflect the true costs of cancellation.[47] Shortly after the settlement, Miller announced that he would seek the repayment of $27 million in back taxes from the Port Authority to the city.[48]

Airport expansion

In early 2006, Robert Deluce announced the creation of a company called Porter Airlines that would start a commuter service at the Island Airport, with the planes built at Bombardier's Downsview plant. It would provide travelers with direct flights to Toronto's city centre, which Pearson International is currently unable to offer, as it is located 30 km away. Opponents of expansion argued that increased services would result in greater noise pollution for downtown residents, as well as preventing other economies from flourishing in the waterfront region. Miller argued that the city may soon have to face the choice of "an industrial or revitalized waterfront".[49] Some supporters of expansion have suggested this is a false dichotomy, and have argued that expansion can be integrated with a larger revitalization plan.[50] Deluce's proposal won support from both business interests and Canadian Auto Workers leader Buzz Hargrove, who said it would create new jobs for workers in the region.[51] A Toronto Star report from early February 2006 indicated most Toronto residents opposed expansion.[52]

In late September 2006, it was reported that Robert Deluce's REGCO (the parent company of Porter Airlines) received $20 million of the $35 million paid by the federal government. This payment assisted Deluce in starting his new airline, and opponents have charged that it was for all intents and purposes a federal subsidy. Miller described the payout as "totally improper".[53]
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I should have continued to be ignorant. Fucking scammers.
 

ravinjunkie

TRIBE Member
Robert Deluce and TPA.

I fail to understand how it would cost $35 million to cancel a contract, looks it was a set up. How convenient that Porter Airlines was created soon after receiving the money.

Who owns TPA? Does anyone know?


Toronto Port Authority - The TPA
Financial Self-Sufficiency

The Toronto Port Authority (TPA) is required by law to be self-sufficient. It receives no funding from the federal government. In fact, it remits taxes and payments in lieu of taxes to the federal government and the City of Toronto, respectively.

The TPA, which recorded a profit for the fifth year in a row in 2012, charges fees for its services. Airport passengers pay an Airport Improvement Fee of $20 per outbound flight. Recreational boaters and commercial ships that go through the harbour also pay fees as do boaters who dock at the Outer Harbour Marina.

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History of Toronto Island Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dispute over payments in lieu of taxes to the City of Toronto

When the TPA was formed, all financial agreements with the City of Toronto and the Toronto Harbour Commission were severed. The TPA announced that it wanted to be exempt from making property tax payments to the City of Toronto, which ceased to provide a subsidy to the TPA. Agencies of the Government of Canada do not pay property taxes per se, but instead some negotiated amount to account for municipal services. For the period from 1999 until 2008, the TPA did not make payments in lieu of property tax to the City of Toronto on the Island Airport in a dispute over the amount of the payment. By 2009, the City estimated that the TPA owed $37 million in unpaid payments in lieu of property tax (PILT). The PILT payments were based on the assessed value as calculated by the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation, which assesses all property for the province of Ontario. The City and the TPA presented their case before a federal dispute resolution process. On January 26, 2009, the Dispute Advisory Panel recommended an amount of $5 million that the TPA must pay. This value was based on similar payments made by other airports, which make the payments based on passenger numbers. Pearson Airport at the time of the ruling paid 94 cents per passenger. The ruling by the panel works out to 80 cents per passenger.[240] On February 10, 2009, the City applied for a judicial review to the Federal Court of Canada.[241]

On November 25, 2009, the City and the TPA came to an agreement in principle to settle all outstanding legal issues. Both sides agreed to accept the other's estimate of monies owned. The City will pay $11.4 million owing on payments related to the 2002 property settlement and $380,559 owing on harbour user fees. The TPA will pay the City $6.4 million owed to resolve the dispute over the PILTs. The agreement, which was ratified by Toronto City Council, was made in conjunction with the transfer of 18 acres (7.3 ha) of land at Leslie Street and Lake Shore Boulevard for a proposed Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) light rail storage facility.[242][243] Lands transferred to the City of Toronto by the Harbour Commission in the 1990s would remain in the possession of the City of Toronto.
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History of Toronto Island Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pedestrian tunnel

In 2009, the TPA proposed to build a $38 million pedestrian tunnel to the airport from the foot of Bathurst Street. The TPA proposed that the project be paid for in the majority from federal and provincial economic stimulus funds. Critics such as Olivia Chow and Adam Vaughan criticized the proposal as a benefit to a small number of privileged users and a subsidy to Porter Airlines' business. The project was not included on a City-approved list of projects submitted to the Government of Canada.[244] On October 6, 2009, the TPA, having not yet received approval for the tunnel project, announced that it was now too late to proceed to meet the March 2011 completion date deadline condition for the project to receive federal infrastructure stimulus funds.[245]

In January 2010, the TPA announced that it was seeking a private-sector partner to build the pedestrian tunnel. The cost was now estimated to cost $45 million CAD. The cost would be financed by a $5/flight increase in the Airport Fee paid by passengers.[246] On July 12, 2010, the TPA announced that it intends to begin construction of the tunnel as early as 2011, after TPA conducts an environmental assessment.[247] The tunnel will not be built on or over City of Toronto land, meaning that City approval is not required.[248] The TPA also announced that an opinion poll conducted on behalf of the TPA suggested that "a majority (56%) of Torontonians support a pedestrian tunnel to the island airport."[249]

The TPA concluded its environmental assessment of the project in April 2011. The TPA then short-listed three companies to respond to a request for proposals to build the tunnel. The RFP ended in October 2011.[250] In July 2011, an agreement was reached with the City of Toronto, exchanging lands with the Port Authority, enabling the Port Authority to proceed on the pedestrian tunnel. The agreement allows the Port Authority to expand their taxi and parking space for the airport. The City of Toronto will have a water main to serve the Islands included as part of the project.[238] In January 2012, the TPA announced that ground-breaking would take place in February 2012, with construction to take approximately two years. A consortium known as Forum Infrastructure Partners, composed of firms Arup, PCL and Technicore, will design, build, finance and maintain the tunnel, which will be free to use.[251]



Bah, nevermind. I will continue to keep reading, but won't add anymore to this thread.
 

Wiseman

TRIBE Member
The way i understand it is that self-important condo-dwelling bitches are acting like whiney assed NIMBY 905ers, resulting in one of the largest cities in North America still only having two subway lines, an international airport that takes longer to get to than you spend in the air and an inner city airport "featuring" the shortest ferry crossing in the world. It'd be funny if we didn't actually live here.
lol I would say the majority of the condo dwellers actually support the expansion of the island airport.

Also: so you are saying nothing is being done about the amount of time it takes to get to Pearson? What if there were some sort of express service that took 25 minutes from downtown with a frequency of every 15 minutes?
 

alison87

TRIBE Member
Not saying nothing's happening, the airport express will be nice when it's done, it's just disappointing to see how many public transport improvements get knocked on the head by short-sighted politicians who only listen to the loudest whiners in their districts. Meanwhile they can afford to rip up half the city every summer to make the roads smoother!?
 
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MoFo

TRIBE Member
lol I would say the majority of the condo dwellers actually support the expansion of the island airport.

Also: so you are saying nothing is being done about the amount of time it takes to get to Pearson? What if there were some sort of express service that took 25 minutes from downtown with a frequency of every 15 minutes?
If it's $3, I'd totally take that.
 

I_bRAD

TRIBE Member
It seems rather stupid and wasteful that this ferry spitting out pollution
You are talking about getting on a plane once you get there right? I think that statement is kind of ironic. Kinda like helping the environment by using a re-useable DDT container.
 
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ravinjunkie

TRIBE Member
You are talking about getting on a plane once you get there right? I think that statement is kind of ironic. Kinda like helping the environment by using a re-useable DDT container.
Yes, you are right! I was thinking more about the water pollution more than air pollution tbh.


[yadadada]

Island residents continually bitch about the surrounding. I was at Sugar beach earlier in the week and there is a constant construction reserving sound, no objections? I think it's stupid that island residents have so much say.

I was delivering an ipad, Porter airline staff instructed me to take the ferry. I've yet to fly Porter airlines.

Why the fuck do they follow same regulations as flying in a regular airport? I wanted to give my mother in law a strawberry frap and the lady said, oh i can't take that through security. Why not? It's a domestic flight. Why does the liquid rule still apply?

[/yadadada]
 

Ho||yw0oD

TRIBE Member
Why the fuck do they follow same regulations as flying in a regular airport? I wanted to give my mother in law a strawberry frap and the lady said, oh i can't take that through security. Why not? It's a domestic flight. Why does the liquid rule still apply?
The liquid rule is security-based. I'm guessing they figured that a terrorist may not discriminate between domestic or international flights when looking to use a plane for their purposes. I call BS on the rule though. If they are that concerned about security, they should not allow ANY liquids on flights. With 100mL or less of liquid this is still a potential threat.
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
The Billy Bishop Airport & Porter are fantastic! A wonderful addition to this city. If you don't think so, pass the glue your sniffing so I can catch your buzz.

I could care less how much money they throw at a tunnel, bridge, walkway, runway or whatever. Just make it happen. Don't turn this into the same BS we're facing over 30 years with our transit. God, Toronto is such a "small town" mentality. This is the 4th/5th largest metropolitan city in NA and we have two subway lines and a HORRIBLE international airport.

Porter is by far the most pleasant experience you can have flying in & out of this city. My only qualms with them is that they don't fly to more destinations & more often but...ta-da;

Porter Airlines New Routes

If you live South of the 401, this is incredible news!

You wanna tax me a bit more for this, fine, go ahead. Just get it done.

And for those 30/40 people living on the island full-time that are complaining - too bad, you're FAR outnumbered. Go live in the Kawarthas.
 

erika

TRIBE Member
Trains, we need trains!!
Proper train to Pearson, high-speed on the Quebec/Windsor corridor, this place was built to favour road travel always :(

And no, I don't think you need an airport "downtown", you just need to be able to get to the airport quickly and smoothly: see London, with great service from Heathrow, Gatwick, even that funny little one that has the RyanAir flights.
Sigh...

PS. No one knows if Porter is actually making any $$ because they don't have to report; and they don't, apparently, treat their staff too well.
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
and they don't, apparently, treat their staff too well.
Not too sure about this one. I've got friends that work for Porter (3+ years) and they love it. Could things be better, of course - same with any job but overall, they're super happy, think it's a great company to work for & are looking forward to the future.
 
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