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Belinda appointed to Liberal cabinet

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Spinsah
I don't think a semiotic analysis would be of much use. Insofar as image permeates all politics, this has certainly not been an exceptional case. Perhaps Mackay's garden interview could be interesting, but I just think you're being a nerd who has been reading too much Barthes.

NERD.
I can't stand Barthes.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Without Roland Barthes there wouldn't really be semiotics, at least not as we've come to understand it wrapped up in the concept of myth and later the floating the signifier.

I just think you're a wanker.

:)
 

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Spinsah
Without Roland Barthes there wouldn't really be semiotics, at least not as we've come to understand it wrapped up in the concept of myth and later the floating the signifier.

:)
I love floating the signifier.. ie: the 'slide'...

Barthes...? Just a bit too clinical for my mood of late...

Can we go back to talking about the hot blonde sign-sliding/ party sliding chick right now?

Anyways, confidence vote tomorrow. Can't wait.
:)
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
For real.

What I think the biggest fallout of this is going to be is the complete destabilizing of the conservative presence in Ontario. Belinda was supposed to calm the storm, or as Rex Murphy put it along with his other gendered quips, function as "mid-wife" to the new conservative party. Now that she has jumped ship, the bucking bronco that is conservative support in Ontario is now not only one cowgirl less, but appears more than ever to be a saddled by a bunch of hillbillies.

Some of the jabs at Belinda, from her former party, calling her "a prostitute" and a "dipstick" is only serving to other the whole party to all but the most hardline neo-cons in Ontario. What was once a party that seemed to be gaining ground through moderation has come to a skidding halt . Fittingly, MacKay may be the only MP who can bring them back together.

And anyone who knows anything about the political battlefield in Canada knows that Harper and crew have no chance of forming goverment unless they marry the three sisters of Canadian conservatism: the west, Ontario and Quebec.
 
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Interchange

TRIBE Promoter
Yeah those comments made about her whoring herself and acting like a prostitute are pretty damn bad - whatever they all whore to some extent in politics but to say it out loud to a women politicain is soo wrong!!!

When i herd it on tv this morning it made me soo upset - and it is true this kind os degrading shit would never be said about a man.

I want to go by my local pc office and egg the shit out of and write them a nasty letter and whip my bum with it.
 

Fidelity

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by mrs peacock

When i herd it on tv this morning it made me soo upset - and it is true this kind os degrading shit would never be said about a man.
Yup, and you can see that kind of rampant sexism right in this thread with Judge wopner's insightful comments about Belinda being the 'blow job queen'.
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by mrs peacock
and acting like a prostitute are pretty damn bad
While I agree the comments have been quite telling of the consensus of male attitudes in the conservative party, and even in male dominated politics for that matter, the above was not said in the context you describe, it was used as a verb, and in that to prostitute one's self can refer to the act of sexual solicitation, but it also means (and I think in this case was the intended meaning) to sell oneself or one's talent for an unworthy purpose.

I think the dipstick comment was more offensive. The rich girl comment was true.
 

Persephone

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by OTIS
While I agree the comments have been quite telling of the consensus of male attitudes in the conservative party, and even in male dominated politics for that matter, the above was not said in the context you describe, it was used as a verb, and in that to prostitute one's self can refer to the act of sexual solicitation, but it also means (and I think in this case was the intended meaning) to sell oneself or one's talent for an unworthy purpose.

I think the dipstick comment was more offensive. The rich girl comment was true.
Yes, but if a male conservative were to cross the floor, what do you think the likelihood is of his move being described as prostitution?
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
I can easily see it being used.. the term whoring and prostituting.. in the VERB sense, are used all the time in politics to describe those that sell out their espoused principles for personal gain. In the world of politics is probably the primary place you'd find that verb commonly used.
 

Interchange

TRIBE Promoter
This metaphore would not be made about a man.

Even if it was imagine the shit it would stir a female politician saying these things about a man - either way it is totally distasteful and i hope it makes them lose more votes.
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
I disagree with its useage in this case, especially in a situation where the target attracts more attention to her gender than her politics, but it has been used to describe the behaviour of many people. Men and women.


P.S. the word wasn't used metaphorically. It has multiple definitions, including ones that don't imply sexual solicitation.
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/18/grewel-050518.html


Liberals deny 2 Tory MPs offered perks
Last Updated Thu, 19 May 2005 09:58:22 EDT
CBC News
OTTAWA - Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal alleges that the Liberals offered him and his MP wife plum posts if he helped their minority government survive, a claim that the Liberals adamantly deny.


INDEPTH: Election speculation


Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal leaves a news conference in Ottawa Wednesday May 18, 2005. (CP photo)
Late Wednesday, Grewal said the Liberals promised him an ambassadorship or Senate seat for his wife Nina, who is also a Conservative MP from British Columbia, if he would agree not to vote against their budget amendment in a confidence vote Thursday evening.

Liberal Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh quickly struck back, saying it was Grewal who made the first approach, seeking a cabinet post for himself and a Senate seat for his wife.

"He approached us. He approached us because he wanted to cross the floor," said Dosanjh, adding that Gurmant Grewal came back several times when the Liberals rejected his initial demands.

"I am actually offended that he wouldn't take no for an answer."

Grewal alleges he made an audio recording of the offer, which he said came from Dosanjh and Tim Murphy, Prime Minister Paul Martin's chief of staff.

In the tape recording the MP played for reporters, Murphy can be heard saying, "I think it's a bad idea to have any kind of commitment that involves a specific trade."

Murphy later says explicit discussions about a senate seat wouldn't be helpful and in fact could not take place until after Grewal abstained in the vote, expected at about 5:45 p.m. Thursday.

The government says that if the tape were played in full, it would show that Grewal was never promised anything.

Grewal says that's not true.

"I was given an understanding that I would be rewarded in some fashion," he said at a news conference.

"Some of the options discussed were different diplomatic appointments or a future senate seat for Nina."

Grewal came under fire in April after news broke that the federal government had asked police to investigate the MP over allegations of impropriety in immigration cases.

The MP from Surrey, B.C., denied the accusation, saying it was completely unfounded.

Grewal's allegation came a day after Belinda Stronach, who ran for the leadership of the Conservative party in early 2004, crossed the floor to the Liberal party and joined Martin's cabinet.


Her defection from the Conservatives gives the Liberal-NDP coalition on the budget a total of 151 votes, not including Speaker Peter Milliken, a Liberal MP who votes only in the case of a tie.

The Conservatives and Bloc Québécois, who had threatened to oppose the budget, hold a combined total of 152 votes.

There are three Independent MPs, only one of whom, Carolyn Parrish has said she will vote with the Liberals.


Of the other two, B.C. MP Chuck Cadman has suggested he's leaning toward supporting the Liberals because his constituents don't want an election only a year after the last one.

Alberta MP David Kilgour may be leaning toward voting with the Conservatives.

Grewal is not the first Conservative MP to accuse the Liberals of trying to court him with promises of appointments as the budget vote neared.


Manitoba's Inky Mark said two weeks ago that he had been offered an ambassadorship to cross the floor.


Recent immigratoin scandal allegations against grewal.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1116036110890_17/?hub=TopStories


Full transcript of the taped conversation.
http://www.politicswatch.com/grewal-may18-2005.htm

I don't know how I feel about this Grewal thing. On one hand I would expect any party in the Liberal's situation to entertain any offers from the opposition regarding support in the upcoming vote. It would be in the best interests of the party, and the party of course would believe in the best interests of its constituents. It would not surprise me that the party would do their best to try and quell the potential defector's fears over the consequences to his/her career either. That seems completely reasonable and not immoral.

On the other hand it does seem kind of sneaky. I expect political parties to make deals in exchange for support, and provide incentive that is within their right to give. It worries me, however , that Grewal has accusations against him for some sort of immigration fraud, leading me to ask whether he is just looking for leverage against that, or whether the Liberals are using that as leverage against him. The latter is definitley immoral.
 
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Interchange

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by OTIS
I disagree with its useage in this case, especially in a situation where the target attracts more attention to her gender than her politics, but it has been used to describe the behaviour of many people. Men and women.


P.S. the word wasn't used metaphorically. It has multiple definitions, including ones that don't imply sexual solicitation.
Well it is still a mans world out there. These jackasses are not helping womens causes. I dont care if they are all corrupt - it was a cheap shot.
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Bass-Invader
Recent immigratoin scandal allegations against grewal.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1116036110890_17/?hub=TopStories


Full transcript of the taped conversation.
http://www.politicswatch.com/grewal-may18-2005.htm

I don't know how I feel about this Grewal thing. On one hand I would expect any party in the Liberal's situation to entertain any offers from the opposition regarding support in the upcoming vote. It would be in the best interests of the party, and the party of course would believe in the best interests of its constituents. It would not surprise me that the party would do their best to try and quell the potential defector's fears over the consequences to his/her career either. That seems completely reasonable and not immoral.

On the other hand it does seem kind of sneaky. I expect political parties to make deals in exchange for support, and provide incentive that is within their right to give. It worries me, however , that Grewal has accusations against him for some sort of immigration fraud, leading me to ask whether he is just looking for leverage against that, or whether the Liberals are using that as leverage against him. The latter is definitley immoral.
Like I said before, brokerage politics are, and have always been part of the political landscape.. especially in Westminster parliamentary governments. How are minority governments supposed to govern without strategic negotiation. Those that try to equate this behaviour with bribery are forgetting that bribery is illegal while this, although somewhat distasteful, is not.
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by mrs peacock
Well it is still a mans world out there. These jackasses are not helping womens causes.
Well it's a good thing you have no axe to grind.

:p
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by OTIS
Like I said before, brokerage politics are, and have always been part of the political landscape.. especially in Westminster parliamentary governments. How are minority governments supposed to govern without strategic negotiation. Those that try to equate this behaviour with bribery are forgetting that bribery is illegal while this, although somewhat distasteful, is not.
no, no, i agree (or i guess you are just reinforcing what i was musing?)
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by mrs peacock
Well it is still a mans world out there. These jackasses are not helping womens causes. I dont care if they are all corrupt - it was a cheap shot.
oh please,


she is a politician, if she was a reform candidate id make a redneck comment, when she was a conservative i called her a money hungary bitch,

now that she slithered her way into the liberal party, she is getting shit on. who really cares what exactly they call her, if she was a man its true she would be called other things, though equally offensive im sure.

the notion that because she is a woman and is therefore getting attacked is silly, youre just upset at the semantics of all this by pointing out the "whoring comments" ,

the equality of politics is quite evident, it means that no longer must the public look upon women politicians with a measure amount of reverence they neglect to show their male counterparts, they too now get equally shit on, same shit but its a different tag.

why should we have to be so constructive and limit our comments only to the most academic and non-sexually suggestive of insutls when for the men we rarely stop so short.

how times do we call politicians weasels, rascists, assholes, and straight up evil, all brutal names, yet the moment you sexualize your heckling its waaaaaay out of line...

sorry, i appreciate your sentiment but i totally disagree, it may be a mans world as you contend, but i have no interest in advancing womens casues at the expense of political integrity.
 

kmac

TRIBE Member
Wasn't Lucien Bouchard referred to as "whoring" at one time as well? Using whore as a verb doesn't smack of sexism to me.

It's the media's focus on her clothes (politician Barbie), her haircolour (blonde ambition, blonde bombshell), her past marriages and relationship with McKay, and the use of "daddy's girl" that bothers me more. Sorry, but I doubt if it was a man they'd call him Daddy's Little Rich Boy or whatever the fuck (and that could be said of numerous male politicians).
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
anyways, all the belinda insult talk aside. There are rumors that Parrish was out this morning with 'appendicitis'. Anyone know if these rumors have been substantiated?
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by kmac
Wasn't Lucien Bouchard referred to as "whoring" at one time as well? Using whore as a verb doesn't smack of sexism to me.
*high five*

Originally posted by kmac
and the use of "daddy's girl" that bothers me more. Sorry, but I doubt if it was a man they'd call him Daddy's Little Rich Boy or whatever the fuck (and that could be said of numerous male politicians).

Think about this hard. Dubyuh has still yet to live up the silver spoon image his critics love to perpetuate about him.

Belinda's not self-made, not even formally educated. Just handed a position, and through her elite contacts has been able to carve out a political career. Nothing sexist about that, fairly truthful.

And the media sources typical of focusing on her image aren't really those worthy of academic scrutiny otherwise. Did you really expect The Sun or The National Post not to have some dumbass low brow catchline?
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Booty Bits
judge wopner, your insights on sexism carry little weight.
to be honest id like to open this conversation up because ive given considerable thought to it, more than you may think

i forgot that we are supposed to kisss girls asses who are know cuties on tribe, even in the politics forum. i cant wait to see who will quote your post and agree, mabey even send you a PM later to get more attention.

i dont know where you formed the presumption that im some dumb sexist pig simply because i call belinda a blow job queen and defend sexulaized insults directed at here alongside all the other insults epople refer to all politicians these days?

heaven forbid we defend our right to call a politician names in addition to the usual critical analysis we do in this room.
 
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