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beatmixing...and the merits thereof...

Discussion in 'Techno Room' started by datafreq, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. datafreq

    datafreq TRIBE Member

    thought i'd throw this out to you guys

    it seems that beatmixing has become a virtual necessity for djs especially in techno / electro genres

    i've notice a lot of people seem to deem this essential,
    and get pretty excited when it doesn't happen

    i'm old school (36) and i remember the days when we used to go to clubs and some djs BM'd and some didn't

    for example at twilight zone , nuts and bolts, diamond etc,
    you could hear a set that included blancmange, front 242,
    divine, b 52's, kraftwerk, siouxsie, and none (or only some of it) would be BM'd...

    it seems that all djs are measured on this now,
    and if you don't do it you can't spin anywhere...period...

    i used to dj over 10 years ago and used to BM,
    but have started to re-discover my records (i have 28 crates)
    and realized that alot of this stuff has been overlooked and would sound great at a club...

    for years i've wanted do a nite where djs could bring a shitload of great records that seem to have been overlooked and just play them...no pressure to BM etc..kind of like a "recroom" nite

    i've sat gritting my teeth thru this electro/new wave/synthpop
    revival as i tried to get a nite like that going over 5 years ago
    and nobody gave a shit...i'm not saying i had a vision,
    i'm sure a lot of people felt the same way but like myself,
    had no connections to pull it off...

    anyways enough ranting on my part :)

    any thoughts from you guys(gals) out there ?

    cheers

    dave
     
  2. ~atp~

    ~atp~ TRIBE Member

    My ONLY necessity when at a techno event: I MUST ENJOY MYSELF.


    If that requires beat-mixing then so be it.

    Even if the DJ sucks total ass, the vibe could be so fucking incredible that you dance like shit anyway.

    Or maybe the DJ just rides a smooooooth mix all night long, that might be cool too, if I enjoy myself.

    It doesn't hinge on any particular thing, man. IMO.
     
  3. patri©k

    patri©k TRIBE Member

    chris sheppard / deadly hedley baby..


    WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL and come again my selectah !



    patrick
     
  4. BigBadBaldy

    BigBadBaldy TRIBE Member

    Nuts and Bolts.. holy fuck, I used to hang out there and drink when I was 17. I liked it there.

    Yeah, I don't really have anything else to add.
     
  5. EffinHard

    EffinHard TRIBE Member

    so far beatmixing is the only dj skill I have, and Im pretty good at it.
     
  6. Sinister Shadow

    Sinister Shadow TRIBE Member

    Mixing...

    I think beat matching is an essential need, otherwise how do you end up with flow. In the days gone by it may have been different, records were made with bpm that were too variable (unto themselves even) and pitch controls didn't extend that far (hence the reason many modified their 1200's with +-15 controls instead of +-8). Today we've got +-50 etc on more and more decks so there is really no excuse for having beats off.

    That being the all important item is flow. If you watch the breakdown carefully and slide in a new record those pitch controls can be completely off, but no one will know.

    The end result in my opinion should be 60 or more minutes of music in which you can't determine one track from the next. However, this inevitably means you'd better be quick and good at matching a beat.


    My 0.02 worth. CDS
     
  7. patri©k

    patri©k TRIBE Member

    I used to drink and buy sheets of acid at the 'New Kenora' at queen & spadina back in the day.


    patrick
     
  8. isoprax

    isoprax TRIBE Promoter

    Beat matching isn't needed at all.

    A record can be dropped in if the person playing understands the songs he's playing and knows when to do it.

    of course when it does come to heavily loop based music like what we're talking about here, there is a greater emphasis on matching beats..it's the whole third record deal...using the two existing records to creat something in between. For that beatmatching is essential.

    to have a good time and just enjoy music though it's not needed unless everyone in the room is a wanker and cries over stupid shit.
     
  9. Time

    Time TRIBE Promoter

    yeah - it basically depends on the type of music you're playing. Tracky stuff really should be BMed, and the older stuff you mentioned like 242, Siouxsie et al. is a bit harder to do that with at times. It also depends on the club - If it's a lounge type event, then BMing can take a back seat imho.

    Cheers!

    G

    P.S. you know... if some of those 26 crates are getting in your way, i'd be more then willing to take a few off your hands Mr. Rout. :D
     
  10. mondo

    mondo TRIBE Promoter

    i think that it is all about context.

    if you're mixing one song into the next and you are off, then don't bother mixing, it sounds horrible!!

    just cut and fade into the next song-

    if it's a club atmosphere and you want people to continuously dance then make it sound like one long song, you better know how to mix seamlessly- lest you throw off their dance routine :D

    programming is just as essential- it's negligible
    but what it comes down to is...are they having a good time?
    if not, then you are not doing your job.
     
  11. JGirlP

    JGirlP TRIBE Member

    I think the basic issue here is

    flow

    Most Importantly: Does the set flow and entertain?

    Ok, we can get very technical here but I think, to create an entertaining set a dj must have some skill knowing how to place tracks one after the other (ie. flow, ie programming). A second very important skill would be to know/feel whether or not the tracks should be beatmatched.


    j
     
  12. soulmantra

    soulmantra TRIBE Member

    oh you mean like the techno room?

    :p :p :p ...
    soulmantra
     
  13. Arthur Oskan

    Arthur Oskan TRIBE Member

    talent does play a good part, <<BUT

    i recently went to an after hours event just outside of Nice and i found that they were setup more like houseparties: imagine venues like system, turbo and the like having open nights; if you have records, play them: that seems to be there moto

    the night started off with french rnb, odd mix of slow tempo breaks with vocals with synth stabs and sounds: they tell me its something that is starting to catch on here in the south: flowlowing that, the night god a little harded tec house, but on the harder side, with and without vocals; at about 2 the campagne started flowing, 20 euros gets you a full bottle with a firecracker: looks like a malatoff cocktail when brough to yo:::music, techno, all styles, some beat matched some not, but those records that werent were integrel turning points in the sets i found, opens another chapter so to speak; cannot name artists but i did here a couple of marco, geatano creations; some hip hop flowing that, very odd i found since im not used to having something so grinding come to almost of full stop; peeps went bannas though:

    unfortatlly; we are only used to what we are fed: 3 hour sets by global techno djs playing the hits, all blended, all awsome no doubt; but; there is not one to stay that there are rules: rules are broken for a reason: to surpass limits in order to create a new order: those of you that truly have an intrest in other styles of electronic music; dont hesitate to encorp it: if you have the skills; your result; even better:

    :::my 2 cents

    comin staight outa southern France:

    fucking HOT HOT HOT 42 today

    ao
     
  14. erk

    erk TRIBE Member

    Ha ha. Touche.
     
  15. monro

    monro TRIBE Member

    i am suprised at a lot of the responses,,,

    i am all about enjoying myself at a techno event but really wouldnt be able to do so if the dj was bad/couldnt beatmatch,,,how do u have a great vibe with a bad dj when the music and ppl is what creates the vibe??

    and yeah anyoine can go and play records , fading them in and out but when u go to hear techno at a party, it should be a combination of incredible tracks and incredible presentation, which essentially would involve beatmatching among many other variables...
     
  16. isoprax

    isoprax TRIBE Promoter

    Note that I said to be effective the dj has to still have a good understanding of the song structure etc..it can be done to very good effect if done right.

    you'll know it when you hear it.
     
  17. physix

    physix TRIBE Member

    like many other "professions", its definitions change with the times...



    certainly, a Dj at one point meant doing alotof talking... setting up interactive crowd games... being funny... (we all know Richie can't tell a joke to save his life)...

    now, Mixin' Marc gets on the mic and spouts off some shish, and most people go "shut up and play some records..."

    So, now, with so much added to the definition of "dj", you really have to get specific with that term... are you a mobile Dj...? (weddings, receptions, etc..) are you a radio Dj (sometimes called "radio personalities", now)...? are you a club DJ...? what's going on....?

    Even in the hip hop realm, the Djs RARELY cut the beat... it's always (trying to be) seemless.... even Djs playing retro stuff GENERALLY try to eitehr score "dance versions" of the songs (remade to have a more steady beat for mixing and an intro/outtro for mixing), or they try and beatmatch the originals...

    Beatmixing is now an integral part of "Djing"... if you simply play one song and then another, with no regard to that, although YOU might say you're a Dj, others might say you're simply a humnan record player.

    And, yes, someone playing good songs is still playing good songs... but how they do it makes or breaks the energy of the crowd....

    -physix
     
  18. Destro Sanchez

    Destro Sanchez TRIBE Member

    "bad/couldnt beatmatch"

    these are not the same things IMO.

    a dj isn't *always* bad when he doesn't beatmatch....just like a dj isn't *always* good when they do (ie dj assault, joey beltram etc...)

    I've witnessed datafreq, who started this thread, rock a party without ever moving the pitches from zero on both decks!!!

    He knew what bpms were similar and mixed em quick with very lil beat matching and it flowed like butta.

    BUT he was spinnin new wave, synthpop and electro styles that don't always need to be mixed to be enjoyed (unlike hard three deck banging techno...)

    Destro>depends on what you spin, where you are, who you're playing for and your personal style. :)
     
  19. isoprax

    isoprax TRIBE Promoter

    ^^..destro has the right idea for a change ;p
     
  20. datafreq

    datafreq TRIBE Member

    beatmixing etc

    destro...next time i see u,
    i'm bringing you a choice 1980's 12" electro single
    from my crates :)

    cheers

    dave

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


     
  21. monro

    monro TRIBE Member

    i agree w/you

    i should have been more specific but this is a techno room and for me to enjoy the styles of techno i do from really hard bangin to minimal, beatmatching and many other skills along w/ knowledge of the music is needed...

    but i absolutely agree that diff ppl enjoy diff music and presentation...
     
  22. tEkKiD

    tEkKiD TRIBE Promoter



    beer.


    alright enough peanut galary... you being straight Trev??

    whats this about NOT matching shit.... alright NOT all techno or ANY genre should be matched but as SAID.... there should OR has to be some kind of flow/energy/vibe created by WHO? the DJ.

    you out of all people know this..... your a sick fucking dj bro, step up with your skills, and show what its all about... you have already played it..do it again......do it again till its educated!!

    match me.

    it is on ;)
     
  23. tEkKiD

    tEkKiD TRIBE Promoter

    ^ luv dug.
     
  24. isoprax

    isoprax TRIBE Promoter


    You are entirely right dugless there has to be a flow/energy/vibe created but I'm saying if you've ever heard someone who can do it without beatmatchin every mix it still works. Unless you're juts being some type of technical snob. If you're open to it though it is fun. I also mentioned that it works better with music that isn't as loop-based as techno/house/happy hardcore (ha!).

    not a great example but think of this...when you listen to the radio are they beat matching? no! does it sound like a train wreck every time a new song starts? no! and that just the radio when the decks are in the hands of someone who knows when that kind of mixing works and how to do it - it is very effective.
     
  25. why not

    why not TRIBE Member

    i've been thinking about this a lot lately - i've been rediscovering a lot of music in my record collection over the past couple years that i never would have considered DJing because it was unmixable (live drums, or just the wrong tempo).

    some of my favourite DJs never beat match, and others make the choice (mixing the songs built for it, cutting to the ones that aren't made to be beat matched)

    examples -

    joe claussell (mixes when he wants to, but would never mix every record in one of his sets)

    david mancuso (one of the true pioneers, google him) he used to mix back in the seventies and early eighties, but turned his back on it years ago and will now only play records that deserve to be hears from beginning to end.

    will munro (used to book me to play his art shows, now i get to write about him - weird) he never mixes, and he can rock a party in a very unique way.



    as well, a lot of the reggae events i go to involve no actual mixing, just effects and EQ and volume tweaking.
     

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