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Barry Bonds......Inhuman??

silver1

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Barry Bonds......Inhuman??

Originally posted by fleaflo

And if there is going to be any asterix', then why haven't they already put one by Mark McGuire's name?

They did. That's where the whole asterix business came from.
 
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silver1

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Barry Bonds......Inhuman??

Originally posted by fleaflo
I see no such marking on the MLB website

I had read somewhere that they added it for when he had the single season record for his Andro-whatchamacallit use.
 

rudebwoy

TRIBE Member
despite all his greatness, the guy couldn't throw out sid bream running from second (on one leg) when it mattered most....i was heartbroken...still remember seeing andy van slyke sitting in centrefield.....

fransisco cabrera....fransisco cabrera....fransisco cabrera....

c.
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Vote Quimby
Bonds is talented. But let's remember he plays baseball in the age of the juiced ball/ suck ass pitchers. Plus he's juiced up.

Any recordes he sets should have a giant asterix beside it.

I'd love for the prosecuters get access to MLB steroid test results and make them public.

Anyone who thinks Bonds is clean needs to take their heads out of their asses.

Same with McGwire then. Where do you draw the line? Slippery slope imho.
 

butter418

TRIBE Member
You'll always have the Bonds haters that will disregard anything he does just because he is so surly. If he found the cure for cancer those same people would still want to string him up. It is kinda silly that someone would even argue about how good he is no matter what the circumstances, steroids, juiced balls, etc. Obviously everyone else has the same opportunities as Bonds so why is he so much better? It’s funny too because baseball out of all the sports has to be the most objective with all the stats they keep. If Cal Ripken or Mark McGwire or any number of media darlings had Barry numbers you would be lynched if you even hinted that they were not the greatest ever. I liken it to people that would say Pete Rose is not one of the greatest hitters because he bet on baseball. Some people can’t separate accomplishment from personality and want to punish people that they think did wrong by not acknowledging their accomplishments. I am sure there is a term in psychology for this but I am too lazy to find it.
 
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SJN

TRIBE Member
how many World Series has the great and wonderous Barry Bonds won in 19 years?
oh yeah....right......for all his greatness he's never won the big one, and in fact, he's only ever even appeared in a World Series once....

he's a selfish, juiced asshole who cares more about putting up big numbers than he does about his teammates and winning....and he's spent the last few years playing in a park designed for him to hit home runs
 

fleaflo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by SJN
how many World Series has the great and wonderous Barry Bonds won in 19 years?
oh yeah....right......for all his greatness he's never won the big one, and in fact, he's only ever even appeared in a World Series once....he's a selfish, juiced asshole who cares more about putting up big numbers than he does about his teammates and winning....and he's spent the last few years playing in a park designed for him to hit home runs
3000 hits;700 homeruns. You can keep your little world series ring, it'll be up for auction on Ebay in 20 years anyways.

To be mentioned as one of the top 5 greatest baseball players ever, is a real accomplishment. Baseball isn't that much of a team sport. You still need people to do their thing individually to get it done. He does his part game after game after game.

His stats are astounding and baseball is all about stats.

There are an awful lot of elite players who have never tasted the big one so that argument doesn't hold any water.
 

SJN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by fleaflo
There are an awful lot of elite players who have never tasted the big one so that argument doesn't hold any water.
i disagree 100%....as far as I'm concerned, nobody can be considered one of the best of all time in any sport without a championship....the whole basis for sport at this level is to win - something that Bonds has failed to do for 20 years....ask the fans of the Pirates or the Giants if they'd rather have one World Series title or 10 years of Bonds hitting 40+ homeruns every year; they wouldn't think twice before answering.....
I would also argue that there are very very few players considered to be among the best in their sport who never won a championship.....ask Ray Bourque about how he feels about championships; if he hadn't won one just before retiring, an otherwise brilliant career would have been forever tarnished with a lack of a ring.....any players who competes at that level will agree that your career is incomplete without a title
 

butter418

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by SJN
how many World Series has the great and wonderous Barry Bonds won in 19 years?
oh yeah....right......for all his greatness he's never won the big one, and in fact, he's only ever even appeared in a World Series once....

he's a selfish, juiced asshole who cares more about putting up big numbers than he does about his teammates and winning....and he's spent the last few years playing in a park designed for him to hit home runs

Exhibit A of a typical Bonds Hater.

1. Find something ..... anything to diminish his accomplishments. All the haters have left is he never won a World Series. However if he does win one the haters will find something else to harp on.

2. Call him names. As if “selfish juiced asshole” means that he didn’t hit over 600 homeruns and is third all time on the list or didn’t do all his other accomplishments.

3. Make up wild stories that have no basis in reality. Pac Bell is one of the hardest parks to hit homeruns in. Look it up. Anyone can do it. Just look at the number of homeruns hit by park and you'll see that Pac Bell is on the lower end.

Not that anything will ever change this person's mind but I do find it interesting that to discount reality you do have to go through some sort of standard process and I think I see the pattern.


And I will make a prediction here. When you have challenged and shown false all the logical arguments of the haters they will end all argument by saying: “He’s not the best because that’s just my opinion”.

I tell ya it’s a time tested pattern.
 

SJN

TRIBE Member
:rolleyes:
great post....so now basically anything I say will just go to support you, right?

I'm not trying to diminish his accomplishments. His career numbers are among the best ever - there's no disputing that (other than the possibility that he is juiced....something that will likely never be proven one way or another....there is only a great deal of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence to support his being juiced, but admittedly no hard proof). I fully agree that, juiced or not, he's put up some of the best numbers ever over his career. However, he's never won a title - the reason for playing this game at a pro level is to win....and he's never done that....my opinion applies to any professional athlete as much as it does to him - without a title, his career is incomplete. If he wins a title, I'll be willing to consider him among the best ever (unless he's proven to be juiced)....until then, there is a huge blemish on his record which can't be overlooked
 
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fleaflo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by SJN
.....ask Ray Bourque about how he feels about championships; if he hadn't won one just before retiring, an otherwise brilliant career would have been forever tarnished with a lack of a ring.....any players who competes at that level will agree that your career is incomplete without a title
You know, I get it that Bonds is an asshole to people, and I cringe when I hear about the lazy boy and tv in the locker room that no body is allowed to even touch. But honestly, the stats jump out and slap me upside the head so hard I just find it undeniable. Not winning the championship will definitely be something that gnaws away at him should he never win one. But it will never take away from his accomplishments.

Those stats are just incredible. I'm just gonna appreciate them for what they are. I can do it for Dan Marino, I can do it for Marcel Dionne, I can do it for Charles Barkley etc etc. Cause in trying to get to those elusive championships, it's guys like this who bring it to every game.
 

butter418

TRIBE Member
I knows it's early in the season but wholely fucking shit this guy is not human. Just a bit of stats for the naysayers out there.

On Base percentage .704 :eek:
Batting avergae .463 :eek:
Slugging percentage 1.111 :eek: :eek:
Leading the league in home runs (10)

People thought he would slow down as he got older but he just keeps getting better and better :D
 

Vote Quimby

TRIBE Member
I wonder when the gov't will start leaking the test results of baseball players?

Since the union refused to hand over the 10 results asked for, they executed a search warrant and took the test results for every single player.
 

butter418

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Vote Quimby
I wonder when the gov't will start leaking the test results of baseball players?

Since the union refused to hand over the 10 results asked for, they executed a search warrant and took the test results for every single player.

Never or maybe a few hundred years from now. It’s just not in anyone self interest to do that because then the fallout when they actually find out everyone that is on it would be ginourmous Especially with the Olympics coming up do you think the USA wants the world to know doped up their athletes are.
 

vench

TRIBE Promoter
he may be an asshole to some people, but you can't deny that he's one of the best hitters of all time. you don't hit 73 home runs if you're not.

I do agree that as a fan of the game, I'm happy the Blue Jays won back-to-back World Series rather than John Olerud hitting .400 (was it '92 or '93 he flirted with the elusive number??)

if I were a Giants fan, as much as I'd appreciate his raw talent and hitting skills, I'd rather him lead us to the Promised Land than hit 50+ home runs a year.



vench
 
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Vote Quimby

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by butter418
Never or maybe a few hundred years from now. It’s just not in anyone self interest to do that because then the fallout when they actually find out everyone that is on it would be ginourmous Especially with the Olympics coming up do you think the USA wants the world to know doped up their athletes are.
psst..the US didn't qualify for Athens in baseball. We did.

We're talking baseball, not all the other sports where Americans are doped up.

And the gov't doesn't care in who's interest it is in or not.

I would not be suprised if some baseball fan was reviewing the evidence and decided to let it slip about a few players.
 

butter418

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Vote Quimby
psst..the US didn't qualify for Athens in baseball. We did.

We're talking baseball, not all the other sports where Americans are doped up.

And the gov't doesn't care in who's interest it is in or not.

I would not be suprised if some baseball fan was reviewing the evidence and decided to let it slip about a few players.

psst... I wasn't talking about just the fallout from baseball. Bonds alleged source is the same source as the track and field team which the US qualified for.

If it hasn't slipped yet or hasn't slipped about all the other athletes that have been doped then it probably won't now. If it does then it will be like opening Pandora’s box and you will have to look at all the other suspected athletes which is just about all of them in every sport. If Bonds is doing it then I am sure he is not the only one or the first one and if they want to get him I bet there are lot of other people lower on the totem pole that would be easier targets. By exposing Bonds they would have already found out about people lower on the totem pole (i.e. people with less resources, less reasons to hide their use, etc) which is just about any athletes not as high profile as Bonds (which doesn’t leave many). So because the USA does not want to have the whole world know that just about every one of their athletes is doped especially when an Olympics is coming up they will not be exposing steroid use by one of their top sports figures. If the world knew that a large number of US athletes were doped then any success had in the Olympics would be tarnished or the US would send undoped athletes to the games and not win anything.

Therefore not in the country’s best interest to say a word about steroid use.
 

vench

TRIBE Promoter
if "they" want to sweep his alleged steroid use under the carpet they will. they did it with Carl Lewis in '84 and have done it dozens of more times.

the United States of America is a country of smokescreens.

vench
 

kennyboy

TRIBE Member
Whether Bonds is one the juice or not, and no doubt he's probably on something, the fact remains he still has to hit the ball.

How does taking steroids or any other performance enhancing agent help him hit the ball? It may help him hit it further, but he still has to hit it in the first place. I really doubt there are many, if any other players playing today, or in any era, that can make contact the way he does. And it's not as if pitchers are just tossing it up there for him. He's a pure talent.
 

vench

TRIBE Promoter
there are so many factors that one can use to determine why he's hitting so many home runs.

- the pitching is weak
- lighter, juiced (not on purpose) balls
- quality of bats
- he can just hit the ball

him being stronger will obviously amount to hitting more homeruns, but his swing is a home run swing, I expect him to get at least a double in every at-bat.

he can hit, that's for sure.


vench
 
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