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Article: The Jews took no one's land

Wunderbar

TRIBE Member
As the most visible Arab-American critic of Yasser Arafat and the phony "Palestinian" agenda, I get a lot of hate mail.

I've even received more than my share of death threats.

Most of those who attack me – at least those who bother to get beyond the four-letter words and insults – say I just don't understand or have sympathy for these poor Arabs who were displaced, chased out of their homes and turned into refugees by the Israelis.

Let me state this plainly and clearly: The Jews in Israel took no one's land.

When Mark Twain visited the Holy Land in the 19th century, he was greatly disappointed. He didn't see any people. He referred to it as a vast wasteland. The land we now know as Israel was practically deserted.

By the beginning of the 20th century, that began to change. Jews from all over the world began to return to their ancestral homeland – the Promised Land Moses and Joshua had conquered millennia earlier, Christians and Jews believe, on the direct orders of God.

That's not to say there wasn't always a strong Jewish presence in the land – particularly in and around Jerusalem. In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of that holy city. The source for that statistic? A journalist on assignment in the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx. Yes, that Karl Marx.

A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, illustrates the fact that, even when the Islamic Ottoman Empire ruled the region, the Muslim population in Jerusalem was minimal. The book estimates the total population of the city at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.

"The number of Jews has greatly risen in the last few decades, in spite of the fact that they are forbidden to immigrate or to possess landed property," the book states.

Even though the Jews were persecuted, still they came to Jerusalem and represented the overwhelming majority of the population as early as 1906. And even though Muslims today claim Jerusalem as the third holiest site in Islam, when the city was under Islamic rule, they had little interest in it.

As the Jews came, drained the swamps and made the deserts bloom, something interesting began to happen. Arabs followed. I don't blame them. They had good reason to come. They came for jobs. They came for prosperity. They came for freedom. And they came in large numbers.

Winston Churchill observed in 1939: "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."

Then came 1948 and the great partition. The United Nations proposed the creation of two states in the region – one Jewish, one Arab. The Jews accepted it gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and declared war.

Arab leaders urged Arabs to leave the area so they would not be caught in the crossfire. They could return to their homes, they were told, after Israel was crushed and the Jews destroyed. It didn't work out that way. By most counts, several hundred thousand Arabs were displaced by this war – not by Israeli aggression, not by some Jewish real-estate grab, not by Israeli expansionism.

In fact, there are many historical records showing the Jews urged the Arabs to stay and live with them in peace. But, tragically, they chose to leave.

Fifty-four years later, the sons and daughters and grandsons and granddaughters of those refugees are all-too-often still living in refugee camps – not because of Israeli intransigence, but because they are misused as a political tool of the Arab powers.

Those poor unfortunates could be settled in a week by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East landmass, but they are kept as virtual prisoners, filled with misplaced hatred for Jews and armed as suicide martyrs by the Arab power brokers.

This is the modern real history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. At no time did the Jews uproot Arab families from their homes. When there were title deeds to be purchased, they bought them at inflated prices. When there were not, they worked the land so they could have a place to live without the persecution they faced throughout the world.

It's a great big lie that the Israelis displaced anyone – one of a series of lies and myths that have the world on the verge of committing yet another great injustice to the Jews.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Rosey

TRIBE Member
great, now convince every palestinian of that.....

the 'truth' is totally irrelevant to any conflict where faith is involved.
 

why not

TRIBE Member
what about the settlements in the west bank. what about the weekly bulldozing of villages that's been going on for the past year. what about the fact that there is still no palestinian state, after all these years.
at this point it is ridiculous to try to decide who's historically right or wrong - the international community created the state of israel and also assigned it borders, borders that they have disregarded.

suicide bombing of civilians is unforgiveable, but arafat can not be blamed for it. he has about 40% support, far more then any other leader there. however, suicide bombing has about 80% support. to blow up a police station every time there is an attack by independent extemists is deliberately inflammatory.

terrorism is a technique in warfare used mainly by civilians who don't have the numbers or money for a more conventional campaign. it's usually used by a people seeking to drive out an occupying army. the american war of independence, the end of aparteid in south africa, the IRA, ect.

just as western armies accept that civilian deaths are an innevitable aspect of a military campaign (collateral damage), terrorist organisations believe that the ends justify the means - it's the same fucked up logic on both sides.
israel has already admitted that soldiers were instructed to shoot whether they could see their target or not. we also know that there were people in those neighbourhoods they flattened.

the conflict will not end until israel excepts the borders that have been defined by the UN. it's not a matter of giving in to terrorism, it's just common sense. every occupying army gets driven out eventually, the only other option is genocide.
 

fleaflo

TRIBE Member
Assignments for today

Well said Wunderbar.

Now that we've heard one side of the story, would someone please enlighten us with a (just as brief) synopsis that explains the Palestinian side of this dispute. Then just to make sure, we at the very least, should touch on as many facets to this dispute as possible. I feel someone should discuss(briefly once again) the outside players/influences that are involved.

500 words max for each.

On my screen by 4pm today.

P.S. Please leave your non-objective crap in your ass from now on. :D
 
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Jazz

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Wunderbar
This is the modern real history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. At no time did the Jews uproot Arab families from their homes. When there were title deeds to be purchased, they bought them at inflated prices. When there were not, they worked the land so they could have a place to live without the persecution they faced throughout the world.

It's a great big lie that the Israelis displaced anyone – one of a series of lies and myths that have the world on the verge of committing yet another great injustice to the Jews.
The Palestinian Arab Refugees

As a consequence of the fighting in Palestine/Israel between 1947 and 1949, over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs became refugees. The precise number of refugees, and questions of responsibility for their exodus are sharply disputed. Many Palestinians have claimed that most were expelled in accordance with a Zionist plan to rid the country of its non-Jewish inhabitants. The official Israeli position holds that the refugees fled on orders from Arab political and military leaders. One Israeli military intelligence document indicates that at least 75 percent of the refugees left due to Zionist or Israeli military actions, psychological campaigns aimed at frightening Arabs into leaving, and direct expulsions. Only about 5 percent left on orders from Arab authorities. There are several well-documented cases of mass expulsions during and after the military operations of 1948-49 and massacres and atrocities that led to large-scale Arab flight. The best-known instance of mass expulsion is that of the 50,000 Arabs of the towns of Lydda and Ramle. The most infamous atrocity occurred at Deir Yasin, a village near Jerusalem, where estimates of the number of Arab residents killed in cold blood by Israeli fighters range from about 125 to over 250.

*taken from The Middle East Research & Information Project - www.merip.org*

MERIP is a non-profit, non-governmental organization based in Washington, DC. A completely independent organization, it has no links to any religious, educational or political organizations in the US or elsewhere.
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
1. what is the source of this article?

2. the author will have a hard time convincing anyone if he cannot hide his bias a little better (i.e. he starts right off by referring to the phony "Palestinian" agenda).

3. the author name drops too much.

4. what the hell was karl marx doing writing for the new york tribune?

5. the stats in this article are ridiculous. how is a journalist on assignment supposed to accurately state that two-thirds of the population in the entire area were jewish?

6. it is strange to see moses and joshua described as having "conquered" the promised land.

the palestinian account of the same events is quite different. it IS possible for a single series of events to be interpreted very differently by opposing parties. unless both sides realize this and learn to appreciate the legitimacy of the other side's position, there will never be a peaceful resolution.
 

416

TRIBE Member
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

That's some funny shit.

The land was just sitting there waiting for someone to take it.

LOL

Too fuckin funny.
 
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acheron

TRIBE Member
And, of course, the article only takes into account the last 150 years. That particular area of the world, and much of the lands around it, have been in dispute and fought over for thousands of years. Why should it be resolved now, if ever? It's an oasis. Dry people will fight over it so they can have a source of power, whether it be simply water, or oil, or geographic superiority, or religious bragging rights...

This issue will _never_ be resolved so long as institutionalized religion is allowed to control matters of state.
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
great unbiased sort of article

people

in this sundays toronto star there was a great piece about the mideast conflict that lays out all the reasons for the current battles in what I felt was as unbiased as we'll see.

Pick it up. I'm looking for the link right.now.

jake
 

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Re: great unbiased sort of article

Originally posted by qtip
people

in this sundays toronto star there was a great piece about the mideast conflict that lays out all the reasons for the current battles in what I felt was as unbiased as we'll see.

Pick it up. I'm looking for the link right.now.

jake
I read that article. I thought it presented an even coverage of the situation. Others will call it pro-Israeli.

here
 
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Wunderbar

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Klubmasta Will
the best resource for information on the middle east conflict that i have seen is at cnn.com

before any of you knee-jerkers criticize this statement, take a look at the following link first. if the information there is in any way open to criticism, please let me know.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/mideast/index.html
whenever there is a homicide bombing or fighting between the IDF and Palestinian gunmen CNN always presents both sides of the story, giving time to both Israeli and Palestinian representatives.
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
^^^ i have the utmost respect for cnn. i seem to be in the minority on that point though, at least among the more politically-vocal members around here.

go team cnn. :p
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Klubmasta Will
^^^ i have the utmost respect for cnn. i seem to be in the minority on that point though, at least among the more politically-vocal members around here.

go team cnn. :p
I'm still bitter about their ASS coverage of America's slaughter of innocent people in Afghanistan.
Of course, CNN was getting all of their info from the Pentagon, who still denies any wrongdoing in the thousands of civilian deaths that they are directly responsible for.

Pete
 
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416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by coleridge

World Net Daily ... is a pretty hardcore right-wing website.
You think?

I just found this little piece of wisdom within 5 seconds of typing in their website name into my browser...

"It is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture without appearing harsh," wrote Baldwin. "However, it is time to acknowledge that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western civilization – the nuclear family."
Sweet fancy Moses!
 

Wunderbar

TRIBE Member
Re: great unbiased sort of article

Originally posted by qtip
people

in this sundays toronto star there was a great piece about the mideast conflict that lays out all the reasons for the current battles in what I felt was as unbiased as we'll see.

Pick it up. I'm looking for the link right.now.

jake

Thanks for the heads up on an article which sets out the reasoning of both sides as well as a cursory glance at the history of the conflict.


"It is the hard-liners who are directing the conflict on both sides, a dance of death that is morbidly self-sustaining. Each Palestinian suicide bomber produces more Israeli extremists and fewer moderates.

Each Israeli provocation or reprisal drives more Palestinians out of the political centre and toward the violent margins.

"They are both helping the zealots of the other side, who do not want peace, either," says York's Rahnema. "
 

air-bag

TRIBE Member
some historical facts:

Palestinian refugees:

Upon the creation of Israel (Whithin the boundaries that were dictated by the UN), palestinians that lived in that teritory were given a choice - Whether to accept Israeli citizenship or to move out. Today there are more than 1 million arabs that are living in prosperity in Israel - those who accepted citizenship. (Keep in mind that Israels' population is 5 million). The refugees are the ones who did not accept Israeli citizenship and either moved out or were forced to move out. None of the neighboring arab countries was willing to accept them as their citizens and therefore refugee camps were created on the boarders between countries.


Occupied territories:

All occupied territories were occupied during wars that Israel has been victorious in - wars that were initiated by arab countries.
 

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by air-bag

All occupied territories were occupied during wars that Israel has been victorious in - wars that were initiated by arab countries.
People seem to forget that Israel is surrounded by people who will kill them the first chance they get.

These arab countries sound like a bunch of sore Losers. Good for Israel.
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by air-bag
some historical facts:

Palestinian refugees:

Upon the creation of Israel (Whithin the boundaries that were dictated by the UN), palestinians that lived in that teritory were given a choice - Whether to accept Israeli citizenship or to move out.


" For the entire day of April 9, 1948,Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion…The attackers ‘lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them,’…The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country."

Israeli author, Simha Flapan, "The Birth Of Israel"

Hmmm... sounds like a pretty tough "choice" to me.


Occupied territories:

All occupied territories were occupied during wars that Israel has been victorious in - wars that were initiated by arab countries.
Huh? That doesn't make any sense.

The land that Israel occupies now was taken from the Palestinians. The Palestinians didn't start a war, they were trying to stand up for their land that was being taken away from them. I would like to think that taking over someone's home constitutes "initiating", as opposed to trying to defend one's home.

Pete
 
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