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Armoured truck guards, robbery suspects exchange gunfire

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
And I have had thoughts that my day at the office was tough?

Chris Kitching, CP24.com
Published Tuesday, January 21, 2014 5:44AM EST
Armoured truck guards and thieves exchanged gunfire during a robbery at a Toronto mall Monday night, police say.
None of the guards was injured in the hail of bullets outside Fairview Mall. The suspects took off in a vehicle and it’s not known if they were injured in the shootout.
Police said the incident occurred at about 10:30 p.m., 90 minutes after the mall closed, and they aren’t sure how much money was stolen.
Clear plastic bags filled with bundles of cash were scattered around the G4S truck, which had a bullet hole in its windshield. Shell casings were visible on the ground.
Police said no one has been arrested.


Read more: Armoured truck guards, robbery suspects exchange gunfire, police say | CP24.com
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
wtf?.....minimum wage assholes firing off guns over money that is insured. Drop the bags, comply with the demands and walk away.


I hope these security guys get charged.

stew
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
wtf?.....minimum wage assholes firing off guns over money that is insured. Drop the bags, comply with the demands and walk away.


I hope these security guys get charged.

stew
how do you know these guards are making minimum wage ?
how do you know these guards weren't ex cops, military, etc ?

yes, let's charge the men gainfully employed in their jobs for returning fire against people using most likely illegal guns in the act of a felony.
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
I don't always blame the victim, but when I do, I make sure they are hired professional who were under attack via gun toting robbers who steal then ditch silver mini van's.
 
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stryker

TRIBE Member
how do you know these guards are making minimum wage ?
how do you know these guards weren't ex cops, military, etc ?

yes, let's charge the men gainfully employed in their jobs for returning fire against people using most likely illegal guns in the act of a felony.
The only people who should be allowed to discharge firearms in urban environments are active duty cops and or military. Not "ex" anything, no matter what their background.

Have you been to Fairview Mall? It's surrounded by residential towers, not to mention 10:30 is around the time the movie cinema empties out. What if a car full of kids have come around the corner?


These guys aren't fighting for their lives, they're acting like action-movie idiots protecting money that is insured. They have no business firing back. Drop the bags, comply with demands and wait it out in the armoured truck.

stew
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
I don't always blame the victim, but when I do, I make sure they are hired professional who were under attack via gun toting robbers who steal then ditch silver mini van's.
hired professionals? highly doubtful. Minimum wage rent-a-cops much more likely.

Even if they were cops, we've seen how successful fully trained officers have been with their discretion at firing off rounds in the past. :rolleyes:
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
I don't always assume, but when I do I ensure to make an ass out of you and me.

Do you have any other brushes, or is your wide one the only one, so broad strokes is all yah got>?
 
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JoshuaReid

TRIBE Member
stryker,

you do not have any idea of how this went down so why do you instantly blame the security guards? i mean if it were them he initiated gunfire, i would tend to agree with you, but how do you know they were attempting to save their own lives? as bernie said, painting a bit too broad right now.
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
Oh Stryker.
these guys first off don't make min wage, evne the condo security guys make more than min wage. albeit it's still nothing to write home about.

These guys make min $40K and depending on experience (ie being former military/police) they can make a fair bit more.

Secondly, money is usually only insured up to a certain amount, I don't know much about Armour Truck and bailee insurance but I suspect this isn't much different. Granted we are probably not talking about a large sum so I get your point about it not being worth it, yet I think it's insane that you suggest they roll over and play dead.

Complying with criminal activity only encourages further criminal activity
 

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
I don't know about you but if someone is pointing a gun at me and I have a gun and it's my job to use it sometimes I'm going to return the favour.
 
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ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
The only people who should be allowed to discharge firearms in urban environments are active duty cops and or military. Not "ex" anything, no matter what their background.

Have you been to Fairview Mall? It's surrounded by residential towers, not to mention 10:30 is around the time the movie cinema empties out. What if a car full of kids have come around the corner?


These guys aren't fighting for their lives, they're acting like action-movie idiots protecting money that is insured. They have no business firing back. Drop the bags, comply with demands and wait it out in the armoured truck.

stew
if someone points a gun at you while you're doing your job delivering large amounts of cash, and you're armed, and they fire at you, returning fire seems to me, to be the logical and legal response. their lives were in danger.
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
I never said that they initiated the exchange. I am saying that there should be almost zero reason for them to fire back. They are literally sitting the safety of an armoured car. Wait it out until the police arrive.

We have an established and capable police force trained just for this type of incident. Regardless of their previous background this isn't Kabul.

This is hardly some isolated cinema a la the Colossus. The entire mall is is surrounded by people on all sides. The movies on the North side of the mall. The DVP on the East side of the mall. Residential neighbourhoods and a gas station on the West side of the mall. AND a goddamn subway station on the Southside of the mall. And a ring of tower blocks around the whole thing

The only thing those security guards should have been focused on was de-escalation. Not living out their "HEAT" fantasies and risking stray bullets causing harm.


That mall is still super busy at that time with people going to and coming from.

I appreciate that complying with criminal activity only encourages it but that's just a fact of life. Hence the reason most police car chases are called off if the culprit is clearly putting lives in danger.

Evening movie times:
Devil's Due
Run Time 1:29
Show times: 7:55, 10:05

The Nut Job
Run Time 1:25
Show times:: , 7:40

Ride Along
Show times: 7:15, 9:50

August: Osage County
Run Time 2:01
Show times:: , 6:40, 9:30

Lone Survivor
Run Time 2:03
Show times: 7:25, 10:10

Paranormal Activity: The Marked Ones
Run Time 1:24
Show times: 9:45

The Wolf of Wall Street
Run Time 2:59
Show times: 8:45

American Hustle
Run Time 2:18
Show times: 6:55, 10:00

The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
Run Time 2:41
Show times:: , 8:20

Frozen
Run Time 1:48
Show times: , 7:00
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
Police said the G4S guards were heading into the bank when the robbery attempt took place.

so, they were in fact not sitting in the confines of their suitably protective armored truck.

anything else ?
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
if someone points a gun at you while you're doing your job delivering large amounts of cash, and you're armed, and they fire at you, returning fire seems to me, to be the logical and legal response. their lives were in danger.
Get back in the truck and let them fire at the bullet-proof armoured vehicle seems like a much more responsible approach.
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
Police said the G4S guards were heading into the bank when the robbery attempt took place.

so, they were in fact not sitting in the confines of their suitably protective armored truck.

anything else ?
then drop the bags and walk away
 
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ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
Get back in the truck and let them fire at the bullet-proof armoured vehicle seems like a much more responsible approach.
get back in the truck ?


look Einstein, no one was hurt. seems like all safe shoot protocols were successful. if one or both of the suspects were shot, should we still charge the guards ?
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
get back in the truck ?


look Einstein, no one was hurt. seems like all safe shoot protocols were successful. if one or both of the suspects were shot, should we still charge the guards ?
that was luck. There are tons of mall employees still in the mall.

If this was at 2am then I might think differently. But not at 10:30pm when there a bunch of people still around.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
thanks for your crime scene assessment. now i feel like i'm in possession of the facts, and a greater understanding of proven and taught armed robbery tactics.
Luck...priceless.
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
thanks for your crime scene assessment. now i feel like i'm in possession of the facts, and a greater understanding of proven and taught armed robbery tactics.
Luck...priceless.
yes luck.

"...In the New York City police department, for example, officers involved in gunfights typically hit their intended targets only 18% of the time, according to a Rand study. When they fired 16 times at an armed man outside the Empire State Building last summer, they hit nine bystanders and left 10 bullet holes in the suspect—a better-than-average hit ratio. In most cases, officers involved in shootings experience a kaleidoscope of sensory distortions including tunnel vision and a loss of hearing. Afterward, they are sometimes surprised to learn that they have fired their weapons at all...


...Today, Glennon runs Calibre Press, a law-enforcement training company based outside Chicago, and has trained tens of thousands of police officers nationwide. His primary message to his trainees is that they need better training than they typically get; real gunfights are nothing like the ones on TV. “Over half the police officers in the country are only required to go down once or twice a year and shoot holes in a paper target,” he says. Experts who study human performance in gunfights generally agree that people can train to perform better through highly realistic, dynamic simulation training. But that is expensive, especially compared with traditional target practice, and it doesn’t happen often enough."
"

Beyond Obama and Biden's New Gun Laws: How Fear Affects Your Brain in a Shootout | TIME.com



And that's coming from US Police Services. How many levels below this are GS4 rent-a-cops?


stew
 
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