• Hi Guest: Welcome to TRIBE, the online home of TRIBE MAGAZINE. If you'd like to post here, or reply to existing posts on TRIBE, you first have to register. Join us!

Anyone here use Linux? *need advice*

vveerrgg

TRIBE Promoter
I wanted to update my server and I'm considering moving to FreeBSD.

But I've been a Linux guy from way back.... .well till this last year. Now I'm totally out of step with the current flavours.

Any suggestions on which ones are decent, FREE, and fairly straight forward to work with?

I hate Redhat because it's all messed up compared to installing it all on your own. I was looking for something I could pretty much build up on. But has enough basic updates for that'll keep it secure.

suggestions?
 

pr0nstar

TRIBE Member
Why do people talk bad about RedHat?

I think RedHat is great, with it's RHUpdater, etc...

But if you hate RedHat... and aren't good with Linux I'd go with Slackware...

FreeBSD seems to be the nerds Linux and it takes months to get it working the way you want ;) But when it does, it supposedly is the best.

pr0nstar
 

seeker

TRIBE Member
If you're into roll-your-own, Gentoo was fun. Like BSD, it's ports-based.

Personally my favourite is Debian.
 
tribe cannabis accessories silver grinders

finary

TRIBE Promoter
I don't see what's so hard about FreeBSD...
then again ive been working with freebsd as a system administrator for 5 years now so i probably dont have a good idea any longer :p

but trust me - in the end it pays off.

go read "The Comprehensive Guide to FreeBSD" and also go to www.onlamp.com and read their FreeBSD articles.

two very good resources.

/f
 

vveerrgg

TRIBE Promoter
Redhat isn't THAT bad.... I've liked the whole experience with them. Just that when you want to stray from their built little world, it's ALOT of work to roll your own solution into their environment.

I've beeh hesitating with the whole FreeBSD thing because it seems like a real mess to get started.. .but then again, thats from ppl who arent very server minded....

I still might go with the FreeBSD setup, but it requires learning more about that environment. I already know Linux well enough to do what I need to do..... Thanks for the links /f I'm gonna look at those.....

Other wise maybe Debian will be the linux to go with if I go that way.
 

Gunark

TRIBE Member
So last night I accidentally did the old rm -rf on most of my filesystem... :| Not a total loss -- I've been thinking of switching to Gentoo for a while now, so I guess this is as good an opportunity as any. The whole compile-everything-from-scratch thing is intriguing... having a system compiled just for your machine, with everything optimized to the extreme seems like a good idea.

So off I went, downloaded two ISO's and started the installation. Here I am 4 hours later, and the base system is still compiling. This is kind of ridiculous. If it takes this long to install just the most basic /bin stuff, I can only imagine what it'll be like to build KDE or OpenOffice. I'll probably have to leave my laptop running in a corner somewhere for a week.

Has anyone else tried Gentoo? Is it really worth it? I mean yeah, maybe my apps will run 5% faster, but first I have to wait 12 hours to compile them. The effort-to-payoff ratio seems a bit off...
 

Gunark

TRIBE Member
vverrg: re BSD and such

From my experience, BSD is a great server OS but not so great as a desktop/workstation. It's probably okay if you tend to use the same few applications and prefer stability over customization. If you like playing with new technology, BSD is probably not for you.

Supposedly Gentoo adopts one of BSD's best features (the ports system, called "portage" in Gentoo) but since I am still waiting for this damn thing to compile I have no idea how great it really is.

Going from Red Hat though, I would recommend SuSE. I made the switch a while back and it was good. SuSE 9 is very good and solid, especially if you install it with KDE 3.2.
 
tribe cannabis accessories silver grinders

mattt416

TRIBE Member
check distrowatch.com.

a lot of people who are die-hard linux fans use slackware or debian. businesses seem to use red hat a lot, and crazy hackers who like their software optimized for their hardware use gentoo.

since redhat only does enterprise stuff now, you'd have to go for fedora (fedora.redhat.com). fedora is "bleeding edge" in the sense that it will see heavy changelogs and lots of new / potentially unstable features.

i think debian is a good choice for a server environment. slackware is good too, but doesn't have as great a package manager as apt, which helps if you don't want to compile everything from source.

but if you have time, check distrowatch.com. there are lots of smaller distros that are very good, but just don't get the play that the major distros get.
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gunark
I've been thinking of switching to Gentoo for a while now, so I guess this is as good an opportunity as any.
Absolutely!


So off I went, downloaded two ISO's and started the installation. Here I am 4 hours later, and the base system is still compiling. This is kind of ridiculous. If it takes this long to install just the most basic /bin stuff, I can only imagine what it'll be like to build KDE or OpenOffice.
It took me 3.5 days to compile everything. And by everything it means the base system stuff, X, openoffice, XFCE (I dislike kde), firebird, thunderbird, etc, etc.

Did you know there are various ways you can choose to do a gentoo install? Definitely check out the manual. The gentoo documentation is better than most I can find on the internet. ;)

Are you using stage1, stage2 or stage3? Exactly which part of the install are you stuck with? Are you getting any compilation errors? How fast is your system?


Has anyone else tried Gentoo? Is it really worth it? I mean yeah, maybe my apps will run 5% faster, but first I have to wait 12 hours to compile them. The effort-to-payoff ratio seems a bit off...
Yes, I use it. The apps run more than 5% faster...of course, it depends on exactlly which apps you're referring, but in general I find a speed-up of more like 15%. I've had 3 o/s's on my system at once, and I've run timing tests on boot-times, etc.

I compared Debian (which is the tried-tested-and-true all-around great linux distro) to my gentoo install, and my gentoo install whipped it's ass...this is on my older dual-PIII 1GHz with 1.5 gigs of RAM.
 

Gunark

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
Absolutely!



It took me 3.5 days to compile everything. And by everything it means the base system stuff, X, openoffice, XFCE (I dislike kde), firebird, thunderbird, etc, etc.

Did you know there are various ways you can choose to do a gentoo install? Definitely check out the manual. The gentoo documentation is better than most I can find on the internet. ;)

Are you using stage1, stage2 or stage3? Exactly which part of the install are you stuck with? Are you getting any compilation errors? How fast is your system?


3.5 days? Jesus christ. This is starting to feel like overkill. Maybe I should give Debian a try again...

I started with bootstrapped stage 2... It's working fine, just taking a really, really long time. This is on a 1.8 GHz Athlon XP-M. I realize you can also get binaries instead of compiling from scratch, but it seems like Gentoo looks down on this sort of thing.
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gunark
3.5 days? Jesus christ. This is starting to feel like overkill. Maybe I should give Debian a try again...

I started with bootstrapped stage 2... It's working fine, just taking a really, really long time. This is on a 1.8 GHz Athlon XP-M. I realize you can also get binaries instead of compiling from scratch, but it seems like Gentoo looks down on this sort of thing.
There's two reasons for Gentoo's existence: 1) The portage system. It is truly a work of art, and is smoother than the apt-* utils for Debian. 2) The ability to customize the install to your machine's architecture by building from source. If you break one or both of these principles, you may as well go with Debian or Knoppix.


I should add that the 3.5 days involved me having to restart the build twice due to bad RAM, which I ended up replacing.

P.S. - The good news is that the step you're on is one of the longest... :)
 
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories

seeker

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
There's two reasons for Gentoo's existence: 1) The portage system. It is truly a work of art, and is smoother than the apt-* utils for Debian. 2) The ability to customize the install to your machine's architecture by building from source. If you break one or both of these principles, you may as well go with Debian or Knoppix.
I found Gentoo to be very nice on the install and running sides (if slow to build all the stuff on my old PII). However, when I did upgrades using portage, I wound up with problems. Installing new software was not a problem, but dependencies on upgrades seemed to be no end of headaches.

Eventually, I got tired of it, and switched back to Debian.
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by seeker
I found Gentoo to be very nice on the install and running sides (if slow to build all the stuff on my old PII). However, when I did upgrades using portage, I wound up with problems. Installing new software was not a problem, but dependencies on upgrades seemed to be no end of headaches.

Eventually, I got tired of it, and switched back to Debian.
Really? Not that I don't believe you (everybody's system is different) but one thing that I really appreciated was the portage system. Do you know about porthole for example? It's a great GUI which gives you a nice visual tool to work with when you want to see the dependencies for a particular package. More importantly, do you know about qpkg and etcat? They're extremely versatile and useful. But, the fact that you had problems shows that Gentoo might still be a bit inconsistent... :)
 

seeker

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
Really? Not that I don't believe you (everybody's system is different) but one thing that I really appreciated was the portage system. Do you know about porthole for example? It's a great GUI which gives you a nice visual tool to work with when you want to see the dependencies for a particular package. More importantly, do you know about qpkg and etcat? They're extremely versatile and useful. But, the fact that you had problems shows that Gentoo might still be a bit inconsistent... :)
I used etcat a bit. When I had problems, I'd search for answers on the msg board (forums.gentoo.org), but eventually it just got too frustrating.

Plus, the age of my computer made compiling everything a PITA. I thought about trying the binary version, but the point seemed moot, so I just went back to reliable old Debian. :)
 
Top