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2015 Federal Election.

praktik

TRIBE Member
I mean if everyone just stays chill and doesn't fight, we could conceivably just keep building better defense and countermeasures, and you can be assured everyone is working on BOTH

Bit of a make work project and who knows - may get some cool civilian tech spinoffs
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
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wickedken

TRIBE Member
lol please i won't even get into it anymore just go on believing! everything will work out fine ;) just never mind that the PRIME MINISTER is going somewhere on an OFFICIAL visit.
 

JamesM

TRIBE Member
The decision to ban the media was made by the community itself, NOT the PMO. They didn't want a media circus and I respect their decision.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau visits Shoal Lake 40 reserve, hauls water - Politics - CBC News
Believe me, if you ban first nations media from a situation like that, then show yourself hauling water to kids.

It makes sense to ban local media. You wouldn't want to even come close to dealing with what the reserves really think of it.

So it's a photo op. I get it. Same thing is happening in the Ring of Fire. it's all optics. I would be really surprised if the Government went storming in, and really made their day. Water is a basic necessity the rest of the country enjoys by default.

It actually bodes worse having Trudeau making the reserves look like a 3rd world nation hauling water around.

No government has ever seriously tackled the issue.
 
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Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
lol please i won't even get into it anymore just go on believing! everything will work out fine ;) just never mind that the PRIME MINISTER is going somewhere on an OFFICIAL visit.
sure man. i hope the rest of your world view isn't based on data of this quality.
 

JamesM

TRIBE Member
I've literally had the pleasure of bantering with Haz for 20 years, and I'm not a dumby when it comes to political theory.
 
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wickedken

TRIBE Member
like for fuck's sake, do you just read the Toronto Sun and not even question whether you are getting the whole story?...
Like for fuck sake did you not even see the contradiction here? I'm going to make it clear, but I'm not caring anymore after...

How do you know what the whole story is from any of the papers/government/(tribal) police?

You've seen many instances where any and all of those have lied, so use your head and do your own smell test. And I don't know about you but in this democracy I prefer transparency so I don't need to trust what anyone says.
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
Like for fuck sake did you not even see the contradiction here? I'm going to make it clear, but I'm not caring anymore after...

How do you know what the whole story is from any of the papers/government/(tribal) police?

You've seen many instances where any and all of those have lied, so use your head and do your own smell test. And I don't know about you but in this democracy I prefer transparency so I don't need to trust what anyone says.
Why don't you engage some actual critical thinking here?

Step 1:
You derive your conclusion from a newspaper article, from a newspaper that is
1. Known for sensationalising information, even moreso than other newspapers;
2. Is openly hostile to the current PM's administration.

The claim being made is bizarre, and damaging to the PM.

How can you NOT be suspicious of the claim at this point? Any fair minded person is going to take the aforementioned into account and say 'well, it *might* be true, but it is a pretty outlandish claim, lets double check.'

Step 2
And there's more:
A 2 minute google shows that the claim has been publicly contradicted by a member of the Shoal Lake band.

So we start with an already suspicious claim. Then we see that the claim has been outright repudiated, and replaced with a perfectly reasonable explanation.

Step 3
Why do we believe the repudiation? Well
- first of all, it appears in *multiple* unaffiliated newspapers.
- Second, the repudiation is attributed to a specifically named member of the Shoal Lake band named Cuyler Cotton. If the PMs office was feeding this as a lie to the newspaper, that would be a huge risk, because Cuyler Cotton himself could easily reveal it to be a fraud.
It makes no sense for the PM's office to be covering this up, because a cover up would be even worse than the original claim made by the Sun, and the PM's office would have little control over keeping such a lie secret.


Now this is a lot of text, but it literally took all of a few minutes to do - just a lot longer to explain in text. But there's a reasonable process of checking a suspicious piece of info like that.

Now let's look at your process:

Step 1: Read in sun.
Step 2: post in public.
Step 3: get contradicted.
Step 4: The contradiction is invalid. Not because of any specific features relating to the original claim, but because I think the government lies in general, even though I have no proof it lied in *this* case.

Seems like you are just pulling any reason you can to not admit fault. That is not critical thinking. That is defending a broken fact as if it were a belief.
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
Thanks Bass_invader that's good work! I'm glad it makes sense for you, but like I said and I think we've encountered before, I don't necessarily take anything at face value. I'll just leave it at that.
 

kirstenmeows

TRIBE Member
Wickedken, you're much smarter than this.

This is direct quote from a crapbook page posted by a member of the Shoal Lake 40 community. I'm not posting a direct link because not everyone can be bothered with crapbook, and besides, my own personal info may linkable and I'm not sharing that. I'm also posting a link to Chief Redsky's closing speech, which is beyond poignant. This is not about blocking the media, this is about a community who has lived under a 'boil water' alert amongst other indignities for over 19 years and is FINALLY making progress towards getting the help they need. Some things are beyond politics and I think this qualifies as one. There's a feeling of cautious optimism growing, and this will be a true test of our new government's will to make change.

"This past thursday, Justin Trudeau made the trek to Shoal Lake 40 First Nation and spent the whole day there with the community. The media were kept off the reserve so he could experience the community and their joys and hardships without having to posture and pose. He hauled water into people’s homes, he rode the mud-slick roads in the back of a rez truck, he spent time with the youth, he and Stewart Redsky toured the site of aqueduct intake that has caused such terrible suffering, and he spent time in the Museum of Human Right’s Violations (which is open to visitors btw.) “He’s got good bones,” said my friend who was there. “But he’s going to need a lot of courage and support to do what he hopes to do. It’s vital that he not only knows the facts, but that he feels them.”"

http://www.sl40.ca/Microsoft Word - Statement by Chief Redsky - PM Visit.docx.pdf
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
Thanks Bass_invader that's good work! I'm glad it makes sense for you, but like I said and I think we've encountered before, I don't necessarily take anything at face value. I'll just leave it at that.
right. you ignore evidence and believe what appeals to you emotionally.
 
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JamesM

TRIBE Member
Wickedken, you're much smarter than this.

This is direct quote from a crapbook page posted by a member of the Shoal Lake 40 community. I'm not posting a direct link because not everyone can be bothered with crapbook, and besides, my own personal info may linkable and I'm not sharing that. I'm also posting a link to Chief Redsky's closing speech, which is beyond poignant. This is not about blocking the media, this is about a community who has lived under a 'boil water' alert amongst other indignities for over 19 years and is FINALLY making progress towards getting the help they need. Some things are beyond politics and I think this qualifies as one. There's a feeling of cautious optimism growing, and this will be a true test of our new government's will to make change.

"This past thursday, Justin Trudeau made the trek to Shoal Lake 40 First Nation and spent the whole day there with the community. The media were kept off the reserve so he could experience the community and their joys and hardships without having to posture and pose. He hauled water into people’s homes, he rode the mud-slick roads in the back of a rez truck, he spent time with the youth, he and Stewart Redsky toured the site of aqueduct intake that has caused such terrible suffering, and he spent time in the Museum of Human Right’s Violations (which is open to visitors btw.) “He’s got good bones,” said my friend who was there. “But he’s going to need a lot of courage and support to do what he hopes to do. It’s vital that he not only knows the facts, but that he feels them.”"

http://www.sl40.ca/Microsoft Word - Statement by Chief Redsky - PM Visit.docx.pdf
I'm a core liberal, but if you think all these trips to bring water to a couple families is not a photo op in the wake of Attawapiskat suicides, you're being diluted.
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
I'm a core liberal, but if you think all these trips to bring water to a couple families is not a photo op in the wake of Attawapiskat suicides, you're being diluted.
The issue being challenged here was with the suggestion that it was the PM who restricted media access except to Vice. Not whether the PM is going to use the trip for positive PR.
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
The issue being challenged here was with the suggestion that it was the PM who restricted media access except to Vice. Not whether the PM is going to use the trip for positive PR.
Vice challenged the PM to go, they didn't think he would and once he accepted they put it together with the band.
just thowing this out there for those considering it a photo op, it wasn't initially but as we know everything eventually becomes one for the PM, regardless if it's his own doing
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
Wickedken, you're much smarter than this.

This is direct quote from a crapbook page posted by a member of the Shoal Lake 40 community. I'm not posting a direct link because not everyone can be bothered with crapbook, and besides, my own personal info may linkable and I'm not sharing that. I'm also posting a link to Chief Redsky's closing speech, which is beyond poignant. This is not about blocking the media, this is about a community who has lived under a 'boil water' alert amongst other indignities for over 19 years and is FINALLY making progress towards getting the help they need. Some things are beyond politics and I think this qualifies as one. There's a feeling of cautious optimism growing, and this will be a true test of our new government's will to make change.

"This past thursday, Justin Trudeau made the trek to Shoal Lake 40 First Nation and spent the whole day there with the community. The media were kept off the reserve so he could experience the community and their joys and hardships without having to posture and pose. He hauled water into people’s homes, he rode the mud-slick roads in the back of a rez truck, he spent time with the youth, he and Stewart Redsky toured the site of aqueduct intake that has caused such terrible suffering, and he spent time in the Museum of Human Right’s Violations (which is open to visitors btw.) “He’s got good bones,” said my friend who was there. “But he’s going to need a lot of courage and support to do what he hopes to do. It’s vital that he not only knows the facts, but that he feels them.”"

http://www.sl40.ca/Microsoft Word - Statement by Chief Redsky - PM Visit.docx.pdf
oh ffs
pls tell me you arent that stupid that this wasnt a media stunt and the "fact" its on a crapbook page posted from the reserves chief does not mitigate the fact that it was complete baloney

he rode in a truck, schlepped some water and went to a human rights violation museum. exciting stuff.

easiest way to get free publicity is to demand no publicity

good grief. if he didnt want anyone to know about it he could have just buried it as a pit stop and not alerted any media and told the chief to not post anything about it. end of story.

though his one day with this band clearly means he has completely understood their plight. there are not big enough roll eyes for this
 
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