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2013 summer of dnb?
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unique2100
TRIBE Promoter
Some great talent right there but for the love of god switch up the local talent please. So many good producers and djs out there this boys club thing is beyond old now. These local entitled djs that dont produce and play beatport top 20 are making some events that could be amazing borderline terrible.
I thought I read a doc scott article a while back where he had forsaken jungle altogether? Any how im glad hes back. When is that jam?
I thought I read a doc scott article a while back where he had forsaken jungle altogether? Any how im glad hes back. When is that jam?
Mr. Magyar
TRIBE Member
Welcome to Toronto dnb! It's one reason why I got sick of the scene, but it's nice to see that not much has change. By the way, are DJs still playing Prizna's "Fire" or DJ Krust's "Warhead" with L. Natural screaming for the rewind?
Promoters work with DJ's that they feel fit their night, they are under no obligation to switch anything up. Like walking into McDonalds and saying "You guys are great, burgers are great, but what about sushi? Why dont you guys give Sushi a chance!"
For the record, here are the locals for those shows. Let me know waht you think is boys club about it?
Doc Scott
Frankie Gunns, Mr Brown, Artifice, DJ Void
LTJ Bukem
Sniper, RickToxic, DJ Prime, DJ 6ix
Seba
Frankie gunns, Illweather, Schematic.
I would say thats a pretty good switch up no? I think you're awesome dude, but you didnt even look at the lineups, you just assumed.
Doc Scott is Friday June 28th, would love to see you out supporting these shows.
R4V4G3D_SKU11S
TRIBE Member
I'm going to Doc Scott.
Bukem is a weekend I am out of town unfortunately.
Bukem is a weekend I am out of town unfortunately.
unique2100
TRIBE Promoter
I wasn't specifically talking about your events it was a crass generalization, but since you asked a lot of those are the same dudes who play all the time and a lot of non producers as well which was my exact point. Illweather is playing because it's Sonorous, Schematic and Artifice are the new guys who have been let in to the club and play the rounds at these events now for the last 2 years. I'm assuming DJ 6ix and Void will be opening so noone will see them. Sniper? Didnt he retire? does he still produce? Gunns is a staple and Mr. Brown "Damn right I'm entitled" (quote from the Prophecy) is unavoidable and doesnt produce but seems to get tons of prime slots and plays the top 40 stuff. It just seems to be more of he same old as far as the locals goes. Not really seeing the change up, but I go to and support a lot of shows but to be honest with the exception of DJ Void I could have called all those line ups blind folded. It's just my opinion though, but I'm certainly not the only one who thinks it. Doc Scott, Seba, Bukem are all clutch events and are all going to be sick but more of the same as far as locals go. Do you really think Im just being an asshole and Im the only one who thinks this? That's not really my intent I hear it all the time though. You're right though I hadn't looked at the line ups in advance that's why I was asking for the change from the pattern. Looking forward to seeing 6ix and Void get a chance out there.
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R4V4G3D_SKU11S
TRIBE Member
Yeah the local lineup is always pretty predictable, which is pretty unfortunate.
The producer prerequisite is not really something i subscribe to. If you can rock a crowd, and I feel you fit the vision I have for a specific show, you get asked to play.
Nepotism which is something that is not exclusive to Drum n Bass in Toronto. This happens everywhere, and Im willing to bet you have benefited from it a few times in your life. Like we all have.
Yes, all promoters who have a slot open and want to give it to someone new will pick from someone who is close to them, or they see out regularly, someone who supports and deserves a shot. Again, not exclusive to DnB, this happens EVERYWHERE. Every job I have ever got I went out and got it. No one came to my house and asked me. You want to play out? Go out. Support shows that matter to you. Talk to promoters. Rally your friends up. Make some noise about what you're doing if you want it bad enough. Making a song and sitting at home waiting for the bookings to come in is absurd. That sense of entitlement drives me nuts.
The reality is, I dont think anyone has a case in terms of these lineups not being diverse, and giving the opportunity to new guys to step up. Thats my opinion, you're certainly entitled to yours.
Good discussion though. It's not the "boys club" people talk about.
R4V4G3D_SKU11S
TRIBE Member
DJ Hype on July 19th at the Guv
unique2100
TRIBE Promoter
I can certainly see your perspective and a lot of what you said makes sense. I suppose my point of contention is in thinking that the only way new comers should get gigs is by sucking up/supporting. To me supporting means making a contribution to the scene. I think that people who stay away from the the politics and make and release music should get gigs too. I can see the numbers game from a promoters perspective but disagree thay every dj needs to rally his facebook posse so they can get a gig. Id rather see these lesser known guys get booked for their talent than go and see a guy who brings his friends out to a gig. At some point it has to be about the music. Promoters have no no obligation as you pointed out but Id like to think there promoters have a passion for exposing their fan base to new sounds, uunlessits all cut and dry bottom line stuff. Toronto is a book me I book you city. There is a bunch of behind the scene drama and politics. I think the entitlement comes from a small group of people who are afraid to have things open up. Im not talking about you here btw. Im sure you know about the games that get run ex. throwing an all local jam on a night where a new promoter brings a headliner just as a power move to clip their profits. Competition is healthy and diversity is healthy and exciting. My 0.02
sianspherica
TRIBE Member
Personally I've found that Destiny repeats local talent far more than Rick/Torontojungle.com's events do. Destiny just likes booking usually the same kind of local guys over and over, occasionally a new guy gets if they are starting to establish themselves as a name, but they have staples for thier local talent and they've stuck to their residents for years.
I guess it's a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" thing.
But if you look at the three events T posted the only local on more than one bill is Frankie Gunns. And Gunns really is one of the best drum 'n bass DJ's in the city and has been for years, so no problem there IMO.
I understand the complaint about the "boys club" but when pretty much every promoter is also a DJ, you kind of have to expect to see them wanting to A: play their own events, B: share the favour with promoters they work with or C: let their friends DJ.
Just how it is. As long as the sound is really good and crisp and tweaked properly for the headliner, the locals are not much of a concern for me. Occasionally a local guy will knock it out of the park (Lush does that often) but my decision to go or not to go to an event rests with the headliner and the reputation of the promoters and the venue and it's sound. IMO.
I guess it's a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" thing.
But if you look at the three events T posted the only local on more than one bill is Frankie Gunns. And Gunns really is one of the best drum 'n bass DJ's in the city and has been for years, so no problem there IMO.
I understand the complaint about the "boys club" but when pretty much every promoter is also a DJ, you kind of have to expect to see them wanting to A: play their own events, B: share the favour with promoters they work with or C: let their friends DJ.
Just how it is. As long as the sound is really good and crisp and tweaked properly for the headliner, the locals are not much of a concern for me. Occasionally a local guy will knock it out of the park (Lush does that often) but my decision to go or not to go to an event rests with the headliner and the reputation of the promoters and the venue and it's sound. IMO.
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sianspherica
TRIBE Member
I'm away for July so I'm missing Seba and Bukem.
People do NOT miss Seba. Seriously.
The first 10 minutes of his set last year at Wreck was one of those "holy shit, I love drum 'n bass" moments (that get a bit more rare as I get older). Seba is a truly great producer and a very solid DJ.
Bukem will be dope in a small venue like that too. I'm used to seeing him at Sound Academy and the Guv.
People do NOT miss Seba. Seriously.
The first 10 minutes of his set last year at Wreck was one of those "holy shit, I love drum 'n bass" moments (that get a bit more rare as I get older). Seba is a truly great producer and a very solid DJ.
Bukem will be dope in a small venue like that too. I'm used to seeing him at Sound Academy and the Guv.
basketballjones
TRIBE Member
its been a closed club since 93
94 was the summer of jungle/dnb
i also see a lot of the same "names" being flown in
when the fuck did destiny become a jungle throwing promoter??? destiny = trance for ages, no jungle at their parties. cept as an afterthought at the first bunch of wemfs i went to. one jungle "stage" was in a fucking moving van ffs ha!
94 was the summer of jungle/dnb
i also see a lot of the same "names" being flown in
when the fuck did destiny become a jungle throwing promoter??? destiny = trance for ages, no jungle at their parties. cept as an afterthought at the first bunch of wemfs i went to. one jungle "stage" was in a fucking moving van ffs ha!
This has actually turned into a great discussion.
Newcomers chances to get booked is not about sucking up. But, again like any other industry, becoming acquainted with the people you want to be employed by does play a role.
Regardless of what you want to excel at, or participate in, you should surround yourself with people who are part of that industry. So yes, that does mean going out to shows. Shaking hands. Making friends. Its not about "sucking up". Its about networking. Meeting new people.
Another thing I would like to point out about guys like Marcus, Mystical, Lush etc getting booked as a standard for large shows in this city.
Two reasons. 1. Promoters work with DJ's who they feel share teh same vision, have a working experience built already, and know are capable of handling certain gigs. Putting up a crazy mix on soundcloud is one thing, handling the guv main room rig is another.
and finally, 2. Some DJ's only have one gear. I know I can put Marcus and Lush before or after ANY headliner, and they will play exactly what we all envision for that show. Could be a ragga dj, oldskool, new shit, deep, tech, liquid, jump up, main room bangers, you name it. Those guys do it all, and they do it very very well. They are also capable of stepping up AFTER a headliner and keeping the room full and raving. Not many guys in this city can. I know I likely couldnt.
A lot of DJ's in this city are not that versatile. A lot of DJ's don't understand the art of setting up a room, building the tension, leaving the crowd at that exact place where the headliner comes in and crushes it. I HATE an opening DJ quadruple dropping prime time anthems at 10pm. SET THE FUCKING ROOM UP! Again, thats my vision as a promoter, thats how I want my parties to roll. Others may disagree, and neither are wrong. Just perspective.
As far as frustration, believe me, i know all about it. I bought my decks in 92 and knew everyone. Ever see my name on a Syrous flyer? How about beat junkie? I NEVER got booked, and I understood and accepted why. I was never mad or upset, or felt slighted. They built that empire. No one should have a sense of entitlement for that.
Ultimately, if you love Drum n Bass, and you have the talent and can play, mix well, produce great tunes, get out there and talk to the people that matter. Dont sit at home waiting for the phone to ring. And dont be disappointed if you dont get booked for a show. Throw your own parties. Make them successful. Rally your friends. Making music for fun is one thing. Doing it for a career takes dedication. If you want it, go get it.
Again, awesome discussion. Doubt we could do this on TJ
Either way, SEBA AND BUKEM COMING UP FUCKERS!
i dont agree. i go to jams to hear bomb after bomb after bomb. i fucking hate build up bullshit - thats a trancer mentallity. run riddim hard from beginning to end. i dont care what fucking time it is - prime time, eating time, etc. just dont waste time (no fillers) just my opinion...
Perfectly reasonable opinion. Some people prefer that approach. I personally do not, and try to run my shows accordingly. Neither of us are wrong.
Different strokes.
unique2100
TRIBE Promoter
Ahhh the old don't play a better/harder/darker/more experimental/too different/ than the headliner thing. Don't get me wrong I get the theory behind it I just don't subscribe to it.
Like I said before competition is healthy. I don't go to a show to see DJ's not play the music they love or the style they love in order to compliment another dj's set. A headliner is just a guy from somewhere else doing his own thing, that's why he's brought here right? To show off the integrity of what he does? To come do what he does best right? But everyone else has to pander to it in order to give him a fair shot? The guys name is already the biggest on the flier, he's likely the most well known, he is built up with the most anticipation, and he needs everyone else to lay down in order to be seen as great? Why is he the only one who gets to do his thing? It doesn't make sense to me. I want to go see people do the best they can and play the best damn set they can and not have to worry about showing up anyone else.
"A lot of DJ's in this city are not that versatile. A lot of DJ's don't understand the art of setting up a room, building the tension, leaving the crowd at that exact place where the headliner comes in and crushes it."
There's a lot of DJ's who never get the chance. Also seen the so called guys who do this miss big lots of times.
"Ultimately, if you love Drum n Bass, and you have the talent and can play, mix well, produce great tunes, get out there and talk to the people that matter. Dont sit at home waiting for the phone to ring. And dont be disappointed if you dont get booked for a show. Throw your own parties. Make them successful. Rally your friends. Making music for fun is one thing. Doing it for a career takes dedication. If you want it, go get it."
Playing shows in your home town is only a small piece of what being successful with music is. Music can open so many different doors for people. Perhaps the opportunities arent getting to shine at a Destiny jam or those kind of big shows. Though that's not the way a lot of people spin what is to work hard and be successful in Toronto.
I've had the chance to play a lot of different places and not everywhere has the same mentality as Toronto. In fact is kind of unique to the other places Ive seen.
I still see a lot of people here selling the dream that playing one of the bigger jams is an end goal or is "making it". There are a lot things of things which can be done in the scene I would consider making it above networking in to an opening slot of a "name brand jam". I guess it's all about people setting their own goals and also taking advantage of the opportunities and being able to recognize them and jump on them when they present themselves.
Id say to anyone in this scene play what you love, play the best way you know how, be an individual and take pride in your own successes and don't let others dictate what is it to be successful in this music thing.
Like I said before competition is healthy. I don't go to a show to see DJ's not play the music they love or the style they love in order to compliment another dj's set. A headliner is just a guy from somewhere else doing his own thing, that's why he's brought here right? To show off the integrity of what he does? To come do what he does best right? But everyone else has to pander to it in order to give him a fair shot? The guys name is already the biggest on the flier, he's likely the most well known, he is built up with the most anticipation, and he needs everyone else to lay down in order to be seen as great? Why is he the only one who gets to do his thing? It doesn't make sense to me. I want to go see people do the best they can and play the best damn set they can and not have to worry about showing up anyone else.
"A lot of DJ's in this city are not that versatile. A lot of DJ's don't understand the art of setting up a room, building the tension, leaving the crowd at that exact place where the headliner comes in and crushes it."
There's a lot of DJ's who never get the chance. Also seen the so called guys who do this miss big lots of times.
"Ultimately, if you love Drum n Bass, and you have the talent and can play, mix well, produce great tunes, get out there and talk to the people that matter. Dont sit at home waiting for the phone to ring. And dont be disappointed if you dont get booked for a show. Throw your own parties. Make them successful. Rally your friends. Making music for fun is one thing. Doing it for a career takes dedication. If you want it, go get it."
Playing shows in your home town is only a small piece of what being successful with music is. Music can open so many different doors for people. Perhaps the opportunities arent getting to shine at a Destiny jam or those kind of big shows. Though that's not the way a lot of people spin what is to work hard and be successful in Toronto.
I've had the chance to play a lot of different places and not everywhere has the same mentality as Toronto. In fact is kind of unique to the other places Ive seen.
I still see a lot of people here selling the dream that playing one of the bigger jams is an end goal or is "making it". There are a lot things of things which can be done in the scene I would consider making it above networking in to an opening slot of a "name brand jam". I guess it's all about people setting their own goals and also taking advantage of the opportunities and being able to recognize them and jump on them when they present themselves.
Id say to anyone in this scene play what you love, play the best way you know how, be an individual and take pride in your own successes and don't let others dictate what is it to be successful in this music thing.
Kinda going in circles now, but i wanted to address this.
Would you be ok with booking a guy or hearing someone play a drumstep set before Fabio? Fuck that.
And thats just it. The guys i mentioned earlier in this thread LOVE all the little subgenres or style of DnB we cater for at specific events. So much so that they play them ALL very well.
Again, going in circles here, so Ill leave it at that. Neither of us are wrong, we just have different perspectives of how shows should be presented.
hope to see everyone out these next two weeks.
unique2100
TRIBE Promoter
I was agreeing with you for the most part. I think djs that compliment the headlining act should most certainly be booked. I just think the circle of those djs has a wider birth than that of thosr mentioned.
As far as should a dj play drumstep b4 Fabio of course not. But if he can play a complimentary style in the theme of the night and play better than the headliner,I say go for it. Don't lay down under the guise of setting up the headliner. Play the best youve got to enhance the night.
Good discussions.
As far as should a dj play drumstep b4 Fabio of course not. But if he can play a complimentary style in the theme of the night and play better than the headliner,I say go for it. Don't lay down under the guise of setting up the headliner. Play the best youve got to enhance the night.
Good discussions.