Driving standard... help!

I-Drop · 07-11-2004, 08:31 PM

Hey, just got my first car with manual transmission... things are going ok, but I have a question..

Is it more healthy to break n downshift, or just downshift and let the car slow itself down?

Someone told me that doing it the second way saves the breaks, but it doesn't feel very natural to me.

Any other tips you may have for nubie standard drivers would help... thanks!

stir-fry · 07-11-2004, 08:34 PM

if you're gonna downshift, the best thing to do is to kick the throttle up a little bit so that the revs are where they should be for the gear you are shifting down into.. i'm sure the more seasoned standard drivers here could elaborate or tell me i'm wrong, but that's what i've always done..

stir-fry · 07-11-2004, 08:43 PM

as for tips.. always be in a gear.. don't coast around in neutral

Aphrodite · 07-11-2004, 08:45 PM

I wanna to learn to couble the clutch

any tips?

loopdokter · 07-11-2004, 09:06 PM

Generally speaking downshifting is pretty hard on your clutch. It's 6, half a dozen the other.

The problem is that a clutch is MUCH more expensive to replace than brakes.

Cheers,
Jay [a seasoned standard driver who's replaced 2 clutches!]

Dirt Dawg · 07-11-2004, 09:33 PM

When you hear ppl downshift... if they know what they are doing, you will hear the engine come up quick and clean with no lag.

What you are trying to achieve is to match the revs with the gear ratio, thus putting the car in the right rev range for the lower gear as you slowusuing the brakes... you are not using the trans to engine brake in these cases.

Though not really needed on the street, heel toe shifting allows for late or hard braking/ right gear select combos so you can come in hot/ apex/out full power.

So to answer your question, use your brakes...clutches are MADD expensive to replace. Learning how to downshift while moving, and ultimately heel toe, just keeps its fresh and clean.

Balzz · 07-11-2004, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loopdokter
Generally speaking downshifting is pretty hard on your clutch. It's 6, half a dozen the other.

The problem is that a clutch is MUCH more expensive to replace than brakes.

Cheers,
Jay [a seasoned standard driver who's replaced 2 clutches!]

If you rev-match a downshift, very little wear occurs on the clutch.

fear_of_fours · 07-11-2004, 10:03 PM

dude
clutch is a lot more $$ to fix than breaks.

THINK ABOUT IT

SneakyPete · 07-11-2004, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fear_of_fours
dude
clutch is a lot more $$ to fix than breaks.

THINK ABOUT IT

CAN I TAKE A RIDE IN YOUR CAR BECKY?

gasper · 07-12-2004, 06:01 AM

This one time... in band camp... my brakes broke and I used the clutch alone for 3 weeks... and I stuck it in my.....

Soundstream · 07-12-2004, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by loopdokter
The problem is that a clutch is MUCH more expensive to replace than brakes.

Not necessarily. Some cars it is the other way round (well for a full brake job anyways). And many warranties on new cars will allow you to replace the clutch free of charge during the warranty period. Not so with brakes usually.

Cheers ... Ian

Dirt Dawg · 07-12-2004, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soundstream
Not necessarily. Some cars it is the other way round (well for a full brake job anyways). And many warranties on new cars will allow you to replace the clutch free of charge during the warranty period. Not so with brakes usually.

Cheers ... Ian

Tho they might state that they will repair the clutch free of charge, there are many reports of ppl getting screwed. Like they charge for the labour(which they never mention if it is there policy), or they won't cover it as upon inspection they deem the wear a result of abusive driving...

just use yer brakes, and take it ez on the driving if you aren't comfortable with the standard stylez

Soundstream · 07-12-2004, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirt Dawg
Tho they might state that they will repair the clutch free of charge, there are many reports of ppl getting screwed. Like they charge for the labour(which they never mention if it is there policy), or they won't cover it as upon inspection they deem the wear a result of abusive driving...

Yes, obviously read your warranty. But some will replace regardless of the reason. Actually some will replace the brakes as well regardless of the reason.

Either way, it is better to use the brakes in conjunction with downshifting. Much safer cuz your foot is on the brakes in case you have to suddenly slow down real fast.

Cheers ... Ian

Dirt Dawg · 07-12-2004, 08:52 AM

it's really all about da heel toe deal... but I think I'm the only guy out of all my friends who can actually do it smoothly... most got the downshift smooth but can't brake at the same time.

the true test is the hard brake 4-3-2 heel toe double... if you can do that smooth you rule the world

Balzz · 07-12-2004, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirt Dawg

the true test is the hard brake 4-3-2 heel toe double... if you can do that smooth you rule the world

Which is pretty dumb really, since a 4-2 is much quicker.

Dirt Dawg · 07-12-2004, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Balzz
Which is pretty dumb really, since a 4-2 is much quicker.

stir-fry · 07-12-2004, 09:00 AM

heel on brake, toe on throttle?

Balzz · 07-12-2004, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stir-fry
heel on brake, toe on throttle?

Toe on brake, heel on throttle. In my case, I changed my pedals so they are spaced closely so it's really left side of foot on brake, right side on throttle. Bimmers are perfect for heel-and-toeing right out of the box.

Dirt Dawg · 07-12-2004, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Balzz
Which is pretty dumb really, since a 4-2 is much quicker.

If you can match revs while hard braking from 4-2 nice and smooth then be my guest... If you mess tha up on the track yer fawked.

better to come from 4 into 3rd, so at least you have a gear and you can make a safe trans to 2nd ... a 4-2 can cause you to spin if not perfect under hard braking... if you heel toe right it's fast as shit

to each there own

Balzz · 07-12-2004, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirt Dawg
If you can match revs while hard braking from 4-2 nice and smooth then be my guest... If you mess tha up on the track yer fawked.

better to come from 4 into 3rd, so at least you have a gear and you can make a safe trans to 2nd ... a 4-2 can cause you to spin if not perfect under hard braking... if you heel toe right it's fast as shit

to each there own

If you're really doing that on the track, then you must be the Yoda of track-driving...no matter how fast you shift, 2 shifts takes double the time of a single shift. If I'm braking hard enough to warrant a 4-2 downshift, the last action I want to take is something that will take me twice as long.

Dirt Dawg · 07-12-2004, 09:21 AM

It common for a 4-3-2 shift in a track situation, that's what your vis markers are for...

Balzz · 07-12-2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirt Dawg
It common for a 4-3-2 shift in a track situation, that's what your vis markers are for...

If you are Yoda. Alas, I am not.

Dirt Dawg · 07-12-2004, 09:50 AM

Everything I've stated is common race driving knowlage. I'm no yoda, just someone who took an intrest in driving, and sought instruction and raced in a kart series for awhile.

Drive as you see fit

Nick

Re: Shoe · 07-12-2004, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stir-fry
as for tips.. always be in a gear.. don't coast around in neutral

What's bad about coasting around in neutral, like down a long hill?

Liquidity · 07-12-2004, 09:53 AM

something should be said about gear ratios...?

the ratios on my car are pretty short, so i've never found it beneficial to downshift to 2nd... 3rd works fine for me... i usually switch into neutral at around 30kph and brake from there (unless i feel like making big noises)...

07-11-2004, 08:31 PM	#1
I-Drop Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: the big i-ball at the center of the universe Posts: 773	Driving standard... help! Hey, just got my first car with manual transmission... things are going ok, but I have a question.. Is it more healthy to break n downshift, or just downshift and let the car slow itself down? Someone told me that doing it the second way saves the breaks, but it doesn't feel very natural to me. Any other tips you may have for nubie standard drivers would help... thanks!

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07-11-2004, 08:34 PM	#2
stir-fry TRIBE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Would the worst magician ever, do THIS? Posts: 34,272	if you're gonna downshift, the best thing to do is to kick the throttle up a little bit so that the revs are where they should be for the gear you are shifting down into.. i'm sure the more seasoned standard drivers here could elaborate or tell me i'm wrong, but that's what i've always done..

07-11-2004, 08:43 PM	#3
stir-fry TRIBE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Would the worst magician ever, do THIS? Posts: 34,272	as for tips.. always be in a gear.. don't coast around in neutral

07-11-2004, 08:45 PM	#4
Aphrodite TRIBE Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: in NY funky style Posts: 17,295	I wanna to learn to couble the clutch any tips?

07-11-2004, 09:06 PM	#5
loopdokter TRIBE Promoter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Fergus, Ontario, Canada, Earth Posts: 5,494	Generally speaking downshifting is pretty hard on your clutch. It's 6, half a dozen the other. The problem is that a clutch is MUCH more expensive to replace than brakes. Cheers, Jay [a seasoned standard driver who's replaced 2 clutches!]

07-11-2004, 09:33 PM	#6
Dirt Dawg Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Music bunker...BOOM BOOM BOOM Posts: 435	When you hear ppl downshift... if they know what they are doing, you will hear the engine come up quick and clean with no lag. What you are trying to achieve is to match the revs with the gear ratio, thus putting the car in the right rev range for the lower gear as you slowusuing the brakes... you are not using the trans to engine brake in these cases. Though not really needed on the street, heel toe shifting allows for late or hard braking/ right gear select combos so you can come in hot/ apex/out full power. So to answer your question, use your brakes...clutches are MADD expensive to replace. Learning how to downshift while moving, and ultimately heel toe, just keeps its fresh and clean.

07-11-2004, 10:03 PM	#8
fear_of_fours TRIBE Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,744	dude clutch is a lot more $$ to fix than breaks. THINK ABOUT IT

07-12-2004, 06:01 AM	#10
gasper TRIBE Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in a bubble i can't pop Posts: 7,368	This one time... in band camp... my brakes broke and I used the clutch alone for 3 weeks... and I stuck it in my.....

07-12-2004, 08:52 AM	#14
Dirt Dawg Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Music bunker...BOOM BOOM BOOM Posts: 435	it's really all about da heel toe deal... but I think I'm the only guy out of all my friends who can actually do it smoothly... most got the downshift smooth but can't brake at the same time. the true test is the hard brake 4-3-2 heel toe double... if you can do that smooth you rule the world

07-12-2004, 09:00 AM	#17
stir-fry TRIBE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Would the worst magician ever, do THIS? Posts: 34,272	heel on brake, toe on throttle?

07-12-2004, 09:21 AM	#21
Dirt Dawg Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Music bunker...BOOM BOOM BOOM Posts: 435	It common for a 4-3-2 shift in a track situation, that's what your vis markers are for...

07-12-2004, 09:50 AM	#23
Dirt Dawg Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Music bunker...BOOM BOOM BOOM Posts: 435	Everything I've stated is common race driving knowlage. I'm no yoda, just someone who took an intrest in driving, and sought instruction and raced in a kart series for awhile. Drive as you see fit Nick

07-12-2004, 09:53 AM	#25
Liquidity Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 7,554	something should be said about gear ratios...? the ratios on my car are pretty short, so i've never found it beneficial to downshift to 2nd... 3rd works fine for me... i usually switch into neutral at around 30kph and brake from there (unless i feel like making big noises)...