SUPERHERO MOVIE UPDATES

[Mrs. Pink]

Rorschach was THE SHIT. SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rave jedi]

Saw "Watchmen " at the Varsity Cinemas yesterday and really liked it. Borrowed the graphic novel and motion comic DVD and will have a second viewing in the IMAX theatre when I finish those. My question is for anyone who has seen it in the IMAX screen. Was it trimmed to fit the maximum length of 2 hours? In the old days an IMAX feature film length could not exceed 2 hours. Have they changed that specification or is it still a maximum length of 2 hours?

Haven't seen a feature film on an IMAX screen in a long time. Since both "The Dark Knight" and "Watchmen" are both longer than 2 hours, did they get trimmed to fit the 2 hours length or was there a way to include the movie in its entirety?

[Zorro]

I haven't seen Watchmen but I did see DK in IMAX and it was it's full length. Also Watchmen movie length is listed at the 2:41 under the IMAX listing.

[Klubmasta Will]

This was an okay movie, and that’s being generous. I feel similar to the way I felt after watching the Wachowski Bros.’ take on V FOR VENDETTA; that I just watched an incredibly intelligent comic book translated into a less than intelligent movie.

As much as I dig Zack Snyder’s visual style, I think he missed the point in this movie.

Here are my main thoughts:

1. The Mars scene – in which Dr. Manhattan and Laurie debate whether Manhattan should impose his will on the world and save humanity – is completely mishandled. It’s pretty to look at, but it misses the point. The entire part about Manhattan being able to perceive time in a non-linear fashion, which was highlighted in the book by showing that Manhattan has always known that Laurie would cheat on him with Nite Owl but he wouldn’t get angry about it until she actually tells him (to the point where he even has to remind her to tell him because he is supposed to find out when that linear point in time comes), is glossed over. The debate they have, about whether humanity or life itself is even worthy or miraculous enough to warrant saving, something that was brilliantly written by Alan Moore, is reduced to short cheeseball dialogue that is ultimately unconvincing and not at all enlightening. This scene should have been longer, with the arguments on both sides presented better, but honestly I don’t think it could ever be reproduced properly in a movie, as too much of the dialogue would come across as hokey.

2. The Ozymandius character is cheapened to the point where he appears to be a simple power-hungry lunatic. In the book, Moore took great lengths to portray Ozymandius as someone who understands human nature better than anyone else on the planet. This was shown by scenes in which he built his financial empire by investing in companies and industries that he predicted would be relevant based on hints that only he was smart enough to discern while habitually watching hundreds of television feeds at the same time. He knew, with mathematical certainty, that nuclear war was inevitable, and thus he launched his ‘plan’ to save humanity from itself. Thus, as a reader, you could not help but conclude that perhaps Ozymandius was right all along. Despite his pompous attitude, he WAS smarter than the rest of us, and thus maybe the answer to the question “who watches the Watchmen” should be answered with, maybe, nobody if the Watchman in question is really smarter than the rest of us. This uncomfortable truth is realized by Nite Owl and Manhattan who quickly decide that it is better for humanity to let Ozymandius get away with his treachery, as the truth revealed would only result in the destruction of man. The only character who disagrees is Rorschach, a character meant to represent the knee-jerk, black vs. white, Toronto Sun reader who is not able or willing to grasp the fact that sometimes bad things need to be done for the greater good. All of this – which was the main reason the book was so challenging – is completely lost in the movie.

3. Zach Snyder’s decision to ‘change’ the ending – making it so that the pretend enemy that destroys New York City is Dr. Manhattan as opposed to an alien invasion force – is logically flawed. Moore’s intention was to show that if the armies of the world, who were previously so focused on the little differences that divide us, were suddenly made to think that there were aliens intent on invading our world, the armies would quickly learn to focus more on the things that make us the same rather than the things that make us different. This is a concept that has been explored by other storytellers, but never so well as in the WATCHMEN comic. In the movie, Snyder changes this by showing that Ozymandius’s plan was to frame Dr. Manhattan for the nuclear blast in New York. This is where the logic breaks down. If the world thought that Dr. Manhattan blasted New York City, why would that cause the armies of the world to unite? Would the Soviet Union not instead think that America deserved its fate as it was attacked by its own weapon? Even if you take the position that the world would have still united against a common enemy – this time Dr. Manhattan – that takes away the need for the other Watchmen to keep the *secret*, because presumably the world would have had the exact same reaction if it felt it must unite against the common enemy of Ozymandius. There was thus NO LONGER A LOGICAL REASON for Nite Owl and Manhattan to keep Ozymandius’s secret. This, in my opinion, is the key failure of the movie.

4. The fight scenes were decent, but unnecessary to this particular story. In truth, it is strange to see Nite Owl portrayed as a Batman-style kick ass tough guy, because we are not supposed to think of him that way. I much prefer Moore’s version of a fat, balding, over the hill loser who is burdened by responsibility that he is not fit to handle.

5. The girl playing Laurie sucked. I hated her voice.

Overall, I did enjoy many aspects of this movie, and it is always fun to see comic book characters brought to life. I just think this particular comic book story is not suited for a movie. Too many key elements are left out and/or over-simplified, and I fear it may result in most people dismissing the WATCHMEN story as something less than what it was before.

This is a book that made Time Magazine’s list of ’100 Greatest Novels of All Time’. The reason for this honour is not at all apparent from the movie.

I won’t even get into the debate about the movie leaving out the side-stories (the pirate story and the squid/boat), as these items have been touched on by others and I do not think were as critical as the flaws pointed out above.

I’d give the movie a 6/10. Worth seeing if you've read the comic, but definitely not a substitute for the comic.

[Klubmasta Will]

ps. great to see tribers jelo, timmah, originalvibe and highsteppa indahouse.

james - sorry i was in a rush. i would have loved to have discussed the movie with you, as i always appreciate your thoughts (despite of course your review of final fantasy).

[el presidente Highsteppa]

Originally Posted by Klubmasta Will

ps. great to see tribers jelo, timmah, originalvibe and highsteppa indahouse.

james - sorry i was in a rush. i would have loved to have discussed the movie with you, as i always appreciate your thoughts (despite of course your review of final fantasy).

Not at all Will, it was great to see you and Timmah there as well (Josh, sorry I didn't get a chance to say hi). Timmah - very nice to meet your fiancée.

I really dug it as an adaptation from book to screen - Snyder needs to be commended for being able to adapt the story to the screen which other directors like Terry Gilliam, Paul Greengrass and others had attempted before him, and walked away from it. I can't help but think their adaptations would have been complete disasters compared to this.

Because of the loyal following the graphic novel has, there are going to be many purists that are going to see the omissions and changes that are made to be heresy. But I see Snyder making some very good decisions in making the book a very watchable film with his translation, while remaining very faithful to the source material. Anytime you take one media and translate it to another, sacrifices are going to have to be made since each media is going to be consumed differently and have their audiences processing it in a different manner.

The altered ending was probably one of the wisest choices, as while the original ending to the graphic novel might have made sense back in 1986, it would have been a pretty jarring event that could have broken up the feel that the film had going through it - more emphasis that pretty much all the superheroes with the exception of Dr. Manhattan are ordinary people that are just really good at what they do and function as vigilantes more than the typical superhero stereotype of saviors with actual powers beyond.

I think the only way to really please the loyalists would maybe to have this in a 12 part HBO or Showtime mini series that translates panel to screen, but even then, what would be the point of that? The polish that you see up on the screen with this would be sorely diminished, and even some of the content that is touched upon in the graphic novel, a major TV station might have to tone down just for broadcasting standards. When adapting something like this into another media format, sacrifices are going to be made, and sometimes the translation is going to get lost at certain points.

High marks for the casting of Jackie Earl Haley as Rorschach - he pretty much carries the movie in the sense of its gravitas and the drama and it's hard to imagine anyone else in the role that could have done the role with this much competency (imagine one casting idea of David Caruso in the role - holy shit).

Is it the best comic book movie ever? Nah, I doubt it. But it's a very respectable effort and it definitely leans more favorably towards fans of the graphic novel than trying to de-evolve itself into something that the general public might digest as a typical weekend movie outing.

[acheron]

The reason they changed the ending was due to 9/11 - simply dropping a psychic bomb-laden octopod on NYC isn't sufficient to make the world care. Add to this I think it was wise to make Dr manhatten the bad guy as these days, faith and war are very much center-of-mind. Also, Will seems to have missed that the target for destruction was increased to include several major world cities.

I seem to recall reading somewhere online that the intention is to have a longer director's cut later which will include the Black Freighter storyline as well... I will withhold final judgement until I see it. A lot of the sacrifices I found were reasonable given the realities of filmmaking these days... And I thought Silk Spectre II was mad sexy!

[crazedcanuck]

Originally Posted by Klubmasta Will

nice!!! that new trailer is amazing. i am now officially excited for this film.

good to see gambit and a young cyclops in the flick as well.

His claws look like shit.

The movie is going to be horrible.

[J e l o]

no one's trippin' over Daft Punk doing the soundtrack/score for Tron2?

Watchmen was entertaining and perhaps if i'd not read it i'd have liked it more. the prison was rushed, the ending was rushed and to me that is the best parts of the story.
i liked it, it looked fantastic, but i'm not ga-ga for it.
afterwards went to Milestones and ate and talked about the movie. two folks at the table had not read it but saw the film and liked it. maybe that's saying something. no matter what snyder took on a project that was going to be tough to do. the film looked and sounded top notched. rorschach & dr. manhattan ftw.

[Lil'Timmy]

Originally Posted by el presidente Highsteppa

N hi). Timmah - very nice to meet your fiancée.

not yet mate....gimme a few months.

anyhoo, I love the novel and I liked the movie..a lot! Visually stunning, beauty soundtrack, well done with that. Jackie Earle Hayley and Jeffrey Dean Morgan did great jobs with their characters. Violent...yes. Oscar worthy...never. See it, it's pretty.

[djglobalkiller]

red dawn was awesome!!!! if only....



powers booth FTW

[lobo]

Having never read the novel as a kid I decided to read it over the last couple of weeks before the movie came out. I actually finished chapter 12 an hour before heading out to watch the movie on Friday night.

The book didn't grip me the way it has others. Sure it's a great read and a hell of lot longer than most comics I remember from the 80s. My friends say that I have to take into context meaning that back in the late 80s, there were no other comics that were written like this and that's what made it so special. I guess after decades of reading other similar things, it's kind of like watching Star Wars A New Hope today and saying, "that's it?" It's nothing special but back then it set the bar for special effects in movies.

So while not being totally enthralled with the book, I thought the movie was a very good interpretation of it. Yes they left some stuff out and having recently read it I could tell what was missing and what was changed. But maybe because I had read it quickly and rather late at night, I may have missed some things that others think are important. For example:

- What purpose does the newspaper stand owner and the kid serve?
- What the hell was the shipwreck story about and how did it tie into the rest of the book?

I think that movie would be good for someone who's read the book and wants to see it in live action. I don't think it will get too many repeat viewings and my friends and I all agreed that we wouldn't pay money at a theater to see it again. I'll definitely buy it when it comes out just to add to the library but I don't feel the need to watch it again like I did Dark Knight.

Changing the ending I guess makes sense. Having a squid with psionic powers blow up New York doesn't have that same feeling as a rogue demi-god who obliterates multiple cities around the world at whim. I think that was the best way to bring the world together to face this new threat.

Just read that it pulled in about $55million this weekend which while good, is not as much as they had estimated which was in the $60-$70million mark.

Lobo

[Klubmasta Will]

Originally Posted by acheron

Also, Will seems to have missed that the target for destruction was increased to include several major world cities.

ahhh, i did indeed miss that. thought it was still just NYC. i must have been too busy shaking my head in disgust to recognize the other landmarks.

i still stand by hating the changed ending though, as it still does not explain why the other Watchmen had to keep ozmandius's secret. if they came forward to explain that a crazed blonde smartypants engineered nuclear attacks on several major world cities, would that really have had a drastically different effect on the world than thinking that a giant blue naked dude did it?

the changed ending still takes away the logic behind thinking that all must cover up ozmandius's treachery.

[Klubmasta Will]

Originally Posted by lobo

The book didn't grip me the way it has others. Sure it's a great read and a hell of lot longer than most comics I remember from the 80s. My friends say that I have to take into context meaning that back in the late 80s, there were no other comics that were written like this and that's what made it so special.

true dat. it's like THE SIMPSONS broke ground for cartoons. newer stuff is better than the first season of THE SIMPSONS (i.e. SOUTH PARK ftw), but season 1 of THE SIMPSONS gets props for raising the bar.

[Klubmasta Will]

Originally Posted by Klubmasta Will

ahhh, i did indeed miss that. thought it was still just NYC. i must have been too busy shaking my head in disgust to recognize the other landmarks.

i still stand by hating the changed ending though, as it still does not explain why the other Watchmen had to keep ozmandius's secret. if they came forward to explain that a crazed blonde smartypants engineered nuclear attacks on several major world cities, would that really have had a drastically different effect on the world than thinking that a giant blue naked dude did it?

the changed ending still takes away the logic behind thinking that all must cover up ozmandius's treachery.

i wanted to add a last point, but my edit-time expired.

the changed ending still takes away the logic behind thinking that all must cover up ozmandius's treachery. and since this is the most challenging part of the story for the reader to accept - i.e. that sometimes you have to let your guardians get away with bad things for the good of those being guarded - it is unacceptable to me to weaken this part of the story.

manhattan's decision to then murder rorshach to keep him quiet was also similarly questionable, as rorshach's "justice" would have simply focused the world's anger against a different single entity, and i would like to hear zack snyder's explanation of how this would have had a less-sobering effect on the world.

[djglobalkiller]

josh/jelo, its awesomesauce that DP are doing the soundtrack... i believe thomas bangalter aslo did the score for another movie??? i think i have a record called outrage that was from that movie??

[lobo]

Maybe the thinking is that if the world somehow found out that it was a human being (Ozymandias) that orchestrated the whole series of events to destroy the cities, then mankind still wouldn't be able to workout things together and would go back to their former ways. It's a stretch but possible nonetheless. Personally I think that if a U.S. WMD somehow decided to fuck with the world, including the U.S., and destroy cities that more of the world would blame the U.S. for creating it in the first place. I don't see them working out things but being more pissed off.

One comment I read over at AICN was that in the comic book, the 360 degree views of all the dead people in New York had a very profound effect in displaying the horror of what had happened. I even remember reading one of the comments by the "reporters" in the panels about how a pregnant woman believed that her unborn baby was an alien trying to get to her and how she....(left to the reader's imagination). That's pretty fucked up. Just like the scenes from Event Horizon when the original crew started killing themselves. If the movie could have somehow created a sense of despair like this it would have been a better accepted ending....even if something like this happened in all the other major cities.

BTW, anyone at least think that the combination of The Sound of Silence with the cemetery scene was awesome? Been listening to Sound of Silence all morning now.

Lobo

[lobo]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Pink

Rorschach was THE SHIT. SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed! I think he definitely made the movie. His character was awesome and is exactly how I pictured him in my head while reading the book.

Lobo

[Hi i'm God]

Originally Posted by Eclectic

I don't think that's Deadpool though, if you watch the trailer he also shoots Cyclops's eye beams.

I think this character will be some sort of leech...

I'm still hoping for some plot line issue.

[J e l o]

Originally Posted by Hi i'm God

I'm still hoping for some plot line issue.

spoiler-spoiler-spoiler-spoiler-spoiler-spoiler-spoiler-spoiler-
(from topless robot)

The good news is that Topless Robot seems to have its first, real, honest-to-goodness Hollywood inside tipster! He worked on the Wolverine movie, and emailed me to clear up the Deadpool situation and... well, that's the bad news, especially for all you folks still deep in denial. Now, these are very much spoilers, because there's some very specific info being revealed here -- consider this your SPOILER WARNING. Now here's what my guy (I have a guy! I'm so excited!) says:

• Ryan Reynolds shows up for 10 minutes in the beginning of the film. He's part of Stryker's team, and his mutant ability is mostly being a badass with swords, cutting bullets and the like. He is called Wade Wilson during this period.
• Stryker's big plan (or one of 'em) is to make Weapon XI, a mutant with a shit-ton of mutant powers.
• Stryker uses Wilson's body as the mutant power receptacle, and because of the scarring (I'm not sure whether that's from a previous fight, or as a result of all the mutant powers getting packed into him), Weapon XI is played by Scott Adkins. Weapon XI appears for about ten minutes near the film's end, and has the claws seen above (a la Wolverine), Cyclops' optic blast, Wraith's teleportation ability, and Wolverine's healing factor, too. Also, his mouth is indeed sewn shut.
• Just like Weapon X is given the name "Wolverine," Weapon XI is given the name "Deadpool."

So really, the only inaccuracies with the toys is that Hasbro is calling the Wade Wilson figure Deadpool too, although I can see why they'd rather put "Deadpool" on the packaging rather than "Wade." So, guys... you can freak out and boycott Fox if you want, but please, stop pretending these are two separate characters. Now, it's possible my source is inaccurate, but he's given me ample evidence to believe him (you'll have to trust me on this). So in summary: Wade Wilson is Weapon XI is Deadpool, even if he's played by two different actors. The movie's Deadpool has two big, silly claws, at least by the end. I'm sorry. But that's the way it appears to be.

[Eclectic]

Balls....methinks Wolvie is gonna suck.

[Klubmasta Will]

Originally Posted by J e l o

no one's trippin' over Daft Punk doing the soundtrack/score for Tron2?

i'm stoked anytime i hear daft punk is making new music, but i'm not overly excited about TRON. probably because i never got into it as a kid.

[Eclectic]

http://genosworld.blogspot.com/2009/...firms-hes.html

Mickey Rourke back in for Iron Man 2??

[Flashy_McFlash]

Apparently he will be playing Iron Man's arch-nemesis, Too Many Clothes Man.

[Aerius Zension]

*lunge attack*