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Israeli soldiers shoot UN peacekeeper...WHILE INSIDE AN AMBULANCE!

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Old 03-08-2002, 12:47 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klubmasta Will


actually, the japanese imperial army killed 3 times as many chinese and koreans in the sino-japanese war. this was attempted genocide in its most insidious form ... genetic cleansing by a force which considered itself racially superior. north american schools do not teach this, but you can read up on it yourself by searching "sino-japanese war" or "rape of nanking" on any search engine.

i agree with the rest of what you wrote. just wanted to clarify that one point.

peace.
And we can't forget about the Genocide in Rwanda in 1998.
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Old 03-08-2002, 12:49 PM   #52
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hey 416..

the Jews DO run hollywood, my Jewish friends told me..

the CEO of basically every major movie making film company is Jewish..

why? I dont know..

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Old 03-08-2002, 12:50 PM   #53
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bottom line - its the extremists on BOTH sides that continue to escalate the conflict because it is beneficial to their plans!
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Old 03-08-2002, 01:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeverTooOld


And we can't forget about the Genocide in Rwanda in 1998.
well no, that is not on the same scale...yes it was a tragedy, but 800,000 in Rwanda is less that 2% of the number of jews who died in the holocaust.

however, i will grant that the holocaust went on for years, the rwandan genocide lasted only ~100 days. so it is certainly a comparable level of horror. not that either one is any less horrifying. my source

how about the north american extermination of ~100,000,000 natives during the conquest of north america?
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Old 03-08-2002, 01:31 PM   #55
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Originally posted by ADT


why? I dont know..

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There's documentary entitled "Hollywoodism: Jews, Movies, and The American Dream" which, quite succesfully, attempts to explain why...
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Old 03-08-2002, 01:33 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rosey

...yes it was a tragedy, but 800,000 in Rwanda is less that 2% of the number of jews who died in the holocaust.
i don't think more than 40 million jews died in the holocaust
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Old 03-08-2002, 01:40 PM   #57
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Originally posted by tommysmalls


i don't think more than 40 million jews died in the holocaust
whoa! my bad. i misinterpreted a stat about the total casualties of the WWII (55 million) for casualties of the holocaust (6 million).

my apologies.
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Old 03-08-2002, 01:44 PM   #58
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the 'u.s. holocaust memorial museum' estimates that the nazi regime killed 6 million jews during ww2.

the 'tokyo war crimes tribunal' and chinese war historians estimate that japanís imperial army killed between 20 to 30 million chinese citizens in the same war.

it's not a numbers game. just thought it was worth noting.
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Old 03-08-2002, 02:01 PM   #59
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" The great puzzle is: Did Hitler or Stalin during WW II kill the most Ukrainians? Hitler's crimes in Ukraine have
been better documented and are better known. Stalin once said that history is written by the winners. As a
victor, Stalin's USSR was able to hide its genocide of Ukrainians. After the war Stalin said that 7 million Soviet
citizens died but we know he was concealing the true higher figures. Nikita Krushchev in 1961 set the death toll
in the USSR at 20 million and this seems to be a credible and accurate statistic. Recently Moscow has quoted
figures of 25 and 27 million. These new figures are either sheer propaganda or are based on new information
about Stalin's genocide of Ukrainians and other Soviet citizens during the War."

http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-19.html
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Old 03-08-2002, 02:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by ADT
one thing the jews are definitely going to have to get over is the intrinsic rasicm in their religion..

its kinda like saying that God is a racist..

v..abstractdatatype
So how is the Jewish religion "intristically" racist?

And how is it different than any other religion?

How many religions do you know of that openly accept *every* fucking religion as "correct?"

If the Jewish religion is "racist", just about every other one is too.

Israel's not going to back down beacuse they're tired of getting knocked around. Whether it's Haman or Hitler, people always seem to want to fuck with the Jews. Fuck getting knocked around. I definitely don't agree with the violence on either side, but frankly I'm tired of people trying to summarize a 3,000 year old conflict in to a 30 second soundbite summary because that's all anyone can fucking handle anymore thanks to the wonderful training of television. If you want to seriously get involved in a discussion, read up on the fucking shit and you'll see it's impossible to present it as a cut and dry situation, and therefore it will never come to a cut and dry resolution. Describing it as one side getting "jipped" (not only an embarassing spelling error, but a racist comment as well) is an excellent example of how the media, public perception, etc. is fucking everything in the ass when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian confclit.

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Old 03-08-2002, 02:11 PM   #61
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Ahem.

I was a little angry (as indicated by the angry faces).

So much for the journalism training.

To summarize:

* It's a long, involved conflict that can't be packed in to a cut and dry scenario/resolution

* Using the term "gypped" is really ignorant.

Adam
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Old 03-08-2002, 02:20 PM   #62
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stupid stupid stupid
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Old 03-08-2002, 02:39 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by ADT
one thing the jews are definitely going to have to get over is the intrinsic rasicm in their religion..

its kinda like saying that God is a racist..

v..abstractdatatype
So Judaism is racist and the Jews run Hollywood. Care to say that Jews run the press too? That the Jewish people are engaged in an international conspiracy to control the world from a remote cabin in Switzerland? That 4000 Jewish employees in the world trade centre stayed home on September 11th?
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Old 03-08-2002, 03:04 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rosey
How about the north american extermination of ~100,000,000 natives during the conquest of north america?
....um.........I am guessing that number is at least 10-1000 times larger then the actual number. That would mean that a small army managed to exterminate 20% of the earths population.

The current polulation of north america is about ~400000000 or so. The world population has increased by a factor of ~20 in the time since colonization. Add to that that the people doing the killing were arriving by boat accross the ocean, so population growth by europeans here would be quite small.....and add to that that automatic weapons and bombs didnt; exist at the time......and I find it extremely hard to beleive that the number of deaths could even approach that. Were all the indians just standing around waiting to get shot or something?

dan.
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Old 03-08-2002, 03:07 PM   #65
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hey.. im only pointing out the facts.. i know im getting alot of flak for that statement.. but if you look at my overall stance on this issue, im really trying to look at both sides..

before you send me any hate mail, read everything ive said here instead of focusing on one statement..

i have a problem with ALL religion period.. so before you twist that shit into something anti-semetic (which its not) understand that I pointing out a fact..

one of the key ideas behind judaeism is that god differentiates people on RACE.. ie jews and gentiles and is therefore racists (in some regards)..

ideas like that cause ALOT of problems..

if calling me an antisemetic instead of acknowledging the obvious facts behind the statement and looking for a solution to the problem make syou feel better, go ahead.. like i give a f***

people shouldnt have to live in fear of being branded this or that for pointing out facts...

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Old 03-08-2002, 03:12 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wunderbar


So Judaism is racist and the Jews run Hollywood. Care to say that Jews run the press too? That the Jewish people are engaged in an international conspiracy to control the world from a remote cabin in Switzerland? That 4000 Jewish employees in the world trade centre stayed home on September 11th?
I dont believe any of those things...

nice try at putting words in my mouth..

thats the cheapest form of slander going..

besides...

running hollywood, and manipulating popular opinion are to entirely different things..

as far as im concerned.. hollywood has always (and always will) put out mindless drivel to the masses, and are completely incapable of influencing anyone...

except into stupidity..

stop stereotyping and stick to the facts..

you sound like a bigot..

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Old 03-08-2002, 03:46 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sporty Dan


Were all the indians just standing around waiting to get shot or something?

dan.
The Incas... YES!.. or was it the Mayans.. cant remember.. oh well..

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Old 03-08-2002, 04:36 PM   #68
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Communist countries hide things. Stalin killed more of his own people than any ruler of a nation this world has ever seen. Not just Ukranians he didn't give a fuck. it was a genocide of the worst kind... a genocide against dissent many times dissent that his actions was directly and actually responsible for. The Russians sway with the changing of political power. If it serves them best to paint something in a certain light. They will. They are masters of that. Kruschev wasn't no saint be he was far cry from how they are painting him now. He used to be pretty fondly remembered because of sputnik and a number of other political or ideological victories. To be perfectly honest I'm not surprised that they're doing this but I'm still having some trouble figuring out the motivation.

Hollywood has loads of Jewish residency. There was a time when Hollywood was very much a jewish mens club. That changed. It's not a bad thing it's just a thing. Like the Italians controlled the organized crime for a long time. There are still a lot of Jewish names in the heavy hitters club of hollywood but it's not a Jewsih club anymore people will still give racial preference I'm sure but that's the name of the game with some races it's not that they dislike other races it's that they've been burned so they like their race the best. Whatever it's not perfect but then what is.

On a side note on that new survivor that black guy is a straight up race waving bitchy idiot because he looks to past injustices to give him a reason to put some distance between himself and others with an apparent air of superiority and then has the insolence to point fingers at the white people saying that they are racist and the whites must think the two blacks are strategizing against them and excluding them... when the two black people (the guy's a bad influence on the girl) are in fact excluding themselves through their own petty hate and while they are not strategizing they sure are shit talking... I'm sorry I saw that last nite and it really bugged me because they had no reason to hate yet they let some previous inustice brood and boil allowing a rift to form and then one day they will cross that rift expecting conflict... and if you're going in expecting conflict chances are you will find it. She calls him Malcolm Farrakhan or some shit. Please. Fack off.

Anyways the importance of genocide is not the numbers... although it is a pertinent aspect. The importance lies in the perpetration of it and how the world reacts. The Jewish people have always been in the middle east and they always will be. I'm sure they'd just like to be left alone. I mean christ how long has palestine existed... and how long has israel... and look at how many palestinians work in israel... And they want israel gone... please. Israel has to spend a lot of money on their military. They're a tiny country surrounded on all sides by hostile countries who have had a history of slaughtering and hating them since the beginning of civilization. I'd spend a lot of money on military too.

Look Israel doesn't exactly have a history of invading other countries for no apparent reason. Or just sending in the army to kill some people. You invade our country we'll invade yours and capture your entire army by stopping your supplies. You lob a mortar we'll knock down a settlement. Even if it's not the right settlement that's war. Don't like it? Don't fire fucking mortars dip shit. Sure israel is escalating this with helicopters and what not. Only because Palestinian government can't even get a grip on their own people (they don't really have an interest to) Don't see many palestinian police at those settlements stopping riots. The Princes deal is pretty fucking sweet and I for one think it will work for a time... but the conflict even if stemmed now will arise in the future and will require major intervention or major destruction.

The reality is the outcome is up to the palestinians and their neighbours. You already know israels gonna hit you with a fucking brick if you toss a pebble... so why not just avoid the pebble. IF your cause is just you will be heard. May take time but at least you won't have cold blood on your hands.
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Old 03-08-2002, 04:44 PM   #69
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ADT

I sound like a bigot?????? Did you not just say "Jews run Hollywood"???????????

I used those other examples because the Jews run Hollywood comment usually runs concurrent with the Jews run the press, Jews run the world, Jews were behind September 11th conspiracies. I acknowledge that you did not make any of those contentions But be careful when you make widesweeping , ignorant generalizations, based on what a friend told you in passing conversation, on a public message board.


I find your statements to be inconsistent if not downright hypocritical. You castigate others for letting religion blind you from seeing people as individuals and then you make widesweeping generalizations about an entire group of people. You can't have it both ways.
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Old 03-08-2002, 05:00 PM   #70
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besides... if the Jews controlled the media there wouldnt be articles like this in the Globe & Mail

Hugh Winsor - Globe & Mail - Friday March 8th, 2002
Quote:
The idea of setting up a good-cop, bad-cop scenario to convey policy toward the Middle East works only if both cops play their parts.
Prime Minister Jean Chretien palyed his role as good cop to the hilt when he addressed the Canada-Israel dinner on Wednesday evening in the presence of Israeli President Moshe Katsav. The Prime Minister, as predicted here earlier this week, notched up the pro-Israeli rhetoric linking a friendship "which grows ever stronger" to this "time of trial and tribulation."
While expressing horror and outrage at the "mounting toll of innocent live - too many Israelis and Palestinians are dying," Mr. Chretien went on to tilt this empathy to the Israeli situation. "There is nothing in our experience that can capture the fear that Israelis now live with every hour of every day, wehre allowing your children to go to a pizza parlour or dico or just to play in the park can be a choice between life and death."
But the other actor in this mise en scene, Foreign Minister Bill Graham, who was supposed to play the bad cop, choked on his lines when confronted by one of the most effective lobbying organizations in the country.
True, this was Mr. Graham's first major spech as Foreign Minister, a nerve-inducing prospect at the best of times. But this one was given to an especially tough audience. The Canadian Jewish community parses every word and nuance for any weakening of Canadian support or even criticism.
This is a community, after all, that was able to turn a Canadian vote at the Security Council that criticized Israel's "excessive use of force" against Palestinians into a major issue in the 2000 Canadian election.
So Mr. Graham watered his whine. The minister referred to certain practices which Canada does not believe will contribute to peace. But he dropped the specific criticisms such as demolition of civilian housing by armed forces, incursions into refugee camps which "only seem to exacerbate the situation" and expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank.
These are not new criticisms, but by dropping them, even though they were in his prepared text, Mr. Graham looks hesitant and unsure of himself. The net result was that the bad cop was not tough enough to balance off the good cop to produce Canada's traditional "even-handed" approach.
As anybody who ventures into Middle East politics will find out, it is impossible to find a median position in the current situation.
Unfortunately for Mr. Graham, his appearance of wimping out will stick with him long after the subject matter is forgotten.
That said, Mr. Chretien may be getting out ahead of public opinion in his enhanced support for Israel and his implicit endorsement of Israel's response to the terrorist attacks on its civilian population, if my email is any indication.
Most of my interlocutors question the assertion that the suicidal terrorist attacks on Israel had leached away Canadian sympathy for the Palestinians' plight.
"Most people I hear are embarrassed by the brutality of tanks, rockets and soldiers against a largely unarmed Palestinian population," one wrote. "People are afraid to speak out for fear of being labelled anti-Semetic," wrote another, but "the daily pictures of Arab suffering and desperation speak much louder."
While not defending the suicide terrorists, another interlocutor said Canadians should try to understand the despair and hopelessness that produced them. From another:"We wonder how long North Americans can continue avoiding the ugly truth of how this conflict is destroying Isreali society and the values of its founders".....
maybe Graham read this thread.. lol

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Old 03-08-2002, 05:16 PM   #71
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Well Wonderbar...

I happen to be friends with an EXTREMELY proud Jew who basically listed off the CEOs of the major film and media companys in North America..

very manyl of whom were jewish..

off hand the names I remember.. Edgar Bronfmann (from seagrams>>canadian!).. Michael Eisner (disney the biggest media company going).. and others

personally.. I have no problem with that & i respect and commend the acheivement of the Jewish community!
(as surprising as that may sound to you ... being obviously paranoid and so quick to nazify anyone you choose)

Seagrams is one of canadas best companys.. but I dont like Disney.. they treat their employess like shit.. and buy sweatshop made goods...

as far as that God is racists comment is concerned...

understand.. that i would be as quick to laugh at anyone who claimed that jesus walked on water.. or that Jerusalem is Muslim holy land.. or that they are GODs chosen people (as if)..

come on.. lets get real here..

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Last edited by ADT; 03-08-2002 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 03-08-2002, 05:24 PM   #72
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Bill Graham wasn't trying to say that "Jews run Hollywood" or that the Jewish religion is racist.
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Old 03-08-2002, 05:53 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wunderbar
Bill Graham wasn't trying to say that "Jews run Hollywood" or that the Jewish religion is racist.
1>saying that jews run hollywood (which they do),

is not the same as..

2>saying that jews control and subvert the media to suit their own agenda (which they dont IMO)

case 1 is realism, case 2 is paranoia (something you seem to know alot about)..

really... If Billy Graham cant even do this:

CNN:
Quote:
In President Nixon's Oval Office, the Rev. Billy Graham didn't mince words in describing his feelings about Jews and the media: "This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country's going down the drain."
without being caught on tape.. and if Bill Clinton cant get his load blown by an intern... without us finding out..

do you really expect me to believe that the jewish community can control what we see and read and think without us finding out?!?

hey.. its not a crime to dominate an industry (ex. arabs and oil!)

... as far as the racism thing is concerned.. explain to me how a religion that says god divides humans up by race isnt racist..?

you cant, and wont.. youll just call me a nazi or some shit and avoid the question.. which is what youve been doing all along..


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Last edited by ADT; 03-08-2002 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 03-08-2002, 06:06 PM   #74
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if it makes you feel any better i think most christians are racist too... (especially protestants..eg WASPs fuck)

and they dont even have religeon as an excuse..

but im sure no one is going to flip on me for saying that.. afterall its still PC to badmouth the christians...

(thank god)

hahaha..

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Old 03-08-2002, 06:07 PM   #75
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Speaking of the word "gypped" was not out of ignorance but out to express how unfair some decisions were.

The Jews at the time of the Partition were a minority, the population difference was large between Jews and Arabs. Yet the Jews got just as much land.

Many documentaries that I have seen, and a book I have read (called "From Beirut to Jerusalem" written by Thomas Friedman) have all said that the decision was unfair, and wouldn't have the same outcome in todays UN.

Even today, Palestinians are getting "gypped" in terms of freedom and rights. What kind of "democracy" throws free speech out the window by destroying the only voice the palestinians have (that radio station)?

As for someone saying that Palestinians work in Israel yet want to destroy Israel, is infact true. Palestinians do infact help build the homes in the settlements that they are very strongly against. But you can't blame them. The system that Israel is trying to force the Palestinians into, is to work or starve. To feed their families, they have to work unconditionally, which is an insult to them as a people.

In the late 80's "intifada", the first part of the palestinian movement was not to use violence, but to open and close shops according to their own scheduale. Closing early, opening late, etc. Which was against the guidlines that Israel had imposed on these people. Many arrests were made, and alot of tension built up.

The fighting broke out one time, when a palestinian was captured by Israeli's, and while in hand cuffs, was beaten to death with the butt of a rifle. That was also captured by the media. It wasn't till the soldiers got a very light sentence that shockwaves were sent throughout the Palestinian community and the rocks started to be thrown.

Israel must change the way they treat these people. Many Israeli's say that they are improving the life styles of the Palestinians and that they should be greatful, but what's happening there, is like a group of people having a massive feast, and throwing the dog a piece of the left overs. The dog being the Palestinians and the feasting being the Israeli's.

BTW, that picture of the Israeli's posing by that body angers me very much. Sure the soldiers might have been charged, but I am almost positive the sentences are light.

-Karim
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