
Home  Event Listings  Advertise  TRIBE logos  Subscribe to TRIBE feed  About 
02252002, 10:45 PM  #26 
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In the neon claws of Gamblor
Posts: 4,379

How about any # divided by zero?
You can't? Like what do you mean you can't? 5/0 = undefined Try it on a caluclator or on the PC. Creepy 
02252002, 10:56 PM  #27  
Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,648

Quote:
Show me a real system where i/j actually manifests itself and I'll give you a Nobel Prize... just because you can use it in solving equations doesnt mean it is physically realizable.. infact, that is the entire premise behind most power engineering (mr knowitall)... that is... Power Output = Real (Complex Power Output) v..abstractdatatype 

02252002, 10:57 PM  #28 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: >3
Posts: 10,207

have you ever tried painting the outside of Gabriel's Horn? you can't, it's impossible. but you sure can fill it with paint. crazy? note: Gabriel's Horn is a cone like object found by taking y=1/x [1,inf) and rotating it around the xaxis. craig Last edited by labRat; 02252002 at 11:00 PM. 
02252002, 11:02 PM  #29  
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ban me faggot
Posts: 16,259

[
Quote:
since the square root has both positive and negative roots. i.e. if i=(sqrt 1), than i=i, which to my knowledge cannot be true. i think. 

02252002, 11:10 PM  #30 
Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,648

true dat ^^^
in any case, it doesnt exist, any value which includes it can by definition not be realizable in any physical system.. which i guess.. means then that it exists in the nonphysical universe only.. but so does the club where Tenaglia never leaves.. and so does my 12 inch sausage v..abstractdatatype 
02252002, 11:18 PM  #31  
Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: >3
Posts: 10,207

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
all numbers are just a representation of something. can you actually show me what the number 3 is? other than showing me three objects? i'm tired and going to bed now. toodles. craig 

02252002, 11:18 PM  #32 
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: In front of my computer
Posts: 24,622

.9999... is 1
they are one and the same. if they are different then there must be some interval a  .999... < a < 1 . as the number of nines goes to infinity, a goes to zero, hence the difference between the two numbers dissapears, and they are the same. 
02252002, 11:24 PM  #33 
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Die Hamburgring
Posts: 58,250


02252002, 11:30 PM  #34 
Guest
Posts: n/a

according to my abacus...it's 3 
02252002, 11:35 PM  #35 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: >3
Posts: 10,207

deep: i got's my kettle here, but where's my pot? they're both black in case you didn't know.
one more before i go  i can't remember it completely, maybe it'll come to me in the morn'. it was from the best calculus prof ever, Stanley Lipshitz. This was from his first lecture and it was regarding proof. He drew a sheep on the board and proclaimed it to be a sheep. Then he drew a three legged sheep, and he still said that it was a sheep even though it only had three legs. Then he asked us if a threelegged animal was a sheep. Of course the answer is no, but you couldn't be for certain. So you had to prove that it was/wasn't a sheep. Something like that. genious, pure genious. craig 
02252002, 11:39 PM  #36  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Die Hamburgring
Posts: 58,250

Quote:
ps. it's 'genius' pps. I know, it's late ppps. that doesn't free you from the obligations to detail that is being nerd pppps. nerd 

02252002, 11:49 PM  #37 
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: In front of my computer
Posts: 24,622

this is really cute. 
02252002, 11:59 PM  #38  
Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,648

Quote:
reactive and complex power are the types of power I was referring to, and they do not represent any actual power drain.. infact, eliminating the complex part of the power gives you the actual power drain.. the complex power elements exist only to represent the transient nature of the system in a mathematical form example: picture a phasor rotating in the complex plane.. if that vector represents a wave, the actual wave is the real projection of the vector... so what is the imaginary projection? unless theres some transverse universe where that projection is manifesting itself.. nothing! i is not a real number (no pun intended ), its a mathematical trick.. v..abstractdatatype (ubergeek) 

02262002, 07:57 AM  #39  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,145

Quote:
Without i conservation of energy and momentum would not hold for electrons......without i you could not solve the problem of electron tunneling. There would be no transistors and hence no computers. ......there are many mathematical problems which need i to be solved. Granted, most of these involve black holes..... but there are a few that are relavent on earth. dan. 

02262002, 08:18 AM  #40  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Right here!
Posts: 12,155

Quote:
Impedance is a very 'real' thing (if that's the real you mean), and it is entirely based on i/j. As someone mentioned, j is no more or less existential than 1. jM A&D 

02262002, 08:33 AM  #41 
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Right here!
Posts: 12,155

And in plenty of calculations of impedances you end up with terms in the denominators of the form
((cos^2x + sin^2x) ) ^(1/2) Now of course you can argue that there is no 'need' to use complex notation to solve this, but they are semantically equivalent, and thus doing it using trig or imaginary numbers must also be semantically equivalent: ie. both are just as existential. You can draw one of two conclusions from that. 1. That complex numbers exist as much as real ones do 2. That real numbers are as imaginary as complex ones I think both are true. YAY. ANd though, yes, it is the projection of the phasor that gives the real portion, but for most applications, knowing merely the 'real' portion is not enough to solve the problem. I am using impedance as an example because it is familiar (the 'resistance' of any speaker or motor is almost always zero) but there are countless others. THe projection of the phasor on the imaginary axis plays a big part in the loss of 'real' energy in power systems. (The dot product of these vectors is used commonly which yields a scalar, ie. energy) jM A&D 
02262002, 08:42 AM  #42 
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dark Side of the Mooon
Posts: 11,873

It's all coming back to me now....
Math sucks, or rather, I really suck at math. 
02262002, 08:44 AM  #43  
Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: >3
Posts: 10,207

Quote:
and by the way, it's j not i. get it right people. i is for weenies. and 'imaginary' numbers are very much as legit as real numbers. don't take the nominclature so literally. Quote:
Quote:
[hippie]think outside the box man[/hippie] craig 

02262002, 09:07 AM  #44  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 1,511

Quote:
about complex numbers, i think debating whether they are "tangible" or not is stupid. the bottom line is that they help you. there are many things you can't represent without them, and thus, they are very useful. 

02262002, 11:50 AM  #45  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: In front of my computer
Posts: 24,622

Quote:


02262002, 12:05 PM  #46  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,145

Quote:
It is not rounding off, it is the result of an infinite sum. .99999.... = .9 + .09 + .009 + .0009 + .... = .9 + .9/10 + .9/100 + .9/1000 + .... = .9 + .9(1/10)^1 + .9(1/10)^2 + ..9(1/10)^3 + .... = .9/(1.1) = 1 http://www.cuttheknot.com/pythagoras/a_series.html dan. 

02262002, 12:12 PM  #47  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Buy & Sell Forum
Posts: 9,023

Quote:
Cheers ... Ian 

02262002, 12:34 PM  #48 
Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The 2nd Bassmobile
Posts: 2,235


02262002, 12:41 PM  #49 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Jiffy Squid?!
Posts: 2,189

jesus, are we still talking about the .9999.... thing? How about we talk about the golden mean or something instead?
basically, you take the Fibonacci series: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233 , etc (take the last two numbers, add them together to get the next number) then take the ratio of any 2 numbers in the series: 1/1 = 1 2/1/ = 2 3/2 = 1.5 5/3 = 1.6666 8/5 = 1.6 13/8 = 1.625 21/13 = 1.61538 34/21 = 1.61904... etc, etc.. and this number approaches the number 'phi' (not pi), which is 1.6180339887499, etc, etc to infinity. If you have a rectangle whose sides are related by phi (say, for instance, 13 x 8), that rectangle is said to be a Golden Rectangle. It has the interesting property that, if you create a new rectangle by 'swinging' the long side around one of its ends to create a new long side, then that new rectangle is also Golden. Now, for some reason, this is ratio is replicated in nature everywhere, in shells, in plant life, etc. (also, artists have used it forever because the eye finds things with this ratio 'pleasing' ) 
02262002, 01:50 PM  #50  
TRIBE Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 1,511

Quote:
(and i'm a math major too) 

Bookmarks 
Thread Tools  
Display Modes  

