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Old 02-01-2002, 01:10 PM   #101
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pest:
Wow I can't believe the way you guys think. This country is screwed if you make one law for gays and one for straight people. </font>
I agree, I think gay people should be allowed to get married and have all the same benefits as straight people. I didn't realize you were so open-minded Pest.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Why should they be able to have sex in public and serve afterhours, do they follow a different laws then the rest of us.
Quote:
</font>
Again you show your lack of reading comprehension skills. I'd explain it again to you, but apparently you missed it the first time. Why don't you go back and read the information and articles again. Try and focus on the "private booth" part.
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:27 PM   #102
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That article says nothing. Watch the news or the paper and get the real story of what went on at the pussy palace, then come back to me and talk. Don't print an article that says nothing.
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:30 PM   #103
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Its not about sexual preference and the police, its about nudity and the police.

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Old 02-01-2002, 01:31 PM   #104
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Yayyy for the Pussie Palace ladies CONGRATS!

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pest:
Wow I can't believe the way you guys think. This country is screwed if you make one law for gays and one for straight people. Why should they be able to have sex in public and serve afterhours, do they follow a different laws then the rest of us. I can't go to a strip club and have sex openly what's the difference?</font>

And as for the above quote...remember people, like any other pest out there, if you IGNORE IT, it will go away.

echo
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:32 PM   #105
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it wasn't an article pest, it was a press release by the organizers. that's what that 'media advisory' doohickey means.

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Old 02-01-2002, 01:34 PM   #106
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by echo:
And as for the above quote...remember people, like any other pest out there, if you IGNORE IT, it will go away.</font>
so right!
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:36 PM   #107
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by alexd:
Its not about sexual preference and the police, its about nudity and the police.
</font>
how do you figure?
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:37 PM   #108
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Well why don't you print the news article explaining what was going on in there, rather then talk about cubicles at a bath house.
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:39 PM   #109
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from xtra magazine:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">PUSSY PALACE VICTORY: CHARGES DISMISSED

By Paul Gallant

Liquor charges against two members of the Toronto Women's Bathhouse Committee have been dropped after a judge determined their constitutional rights were violated by the male police officers who charged them.

Ontario court judge Peter Hyrn said in a ruling at Toronto's Old City Hall Thursday morning that male officers attending a woman-only sex event is the same as male officers conducting strip searches on women - a serious breach of privacy rights.

Hyrn said the charges were "one of the clearest of cases" of someone's privacy rights being violated in the pursuit of criminal activity and that the conduct of the police put the justice system into "disrepute."

The charges arose when police visited a licensed women-only sex event, called Pussy Palace, at a normally men's bathhouse in September 2000.

Women's bathhouse organizers, JP Hornick and Rachel Aitcheson, were charged with three counts each of permitting disorderly conduct in licensed premises, one count each of serving alcohol after hours, one count each of allowing liquor outside proscribed areas and one count each of failing to provide sufficient security at a licensed event. Their names appeared on the Special Occasion Permit for liquor at the event.

The evidence against them was collected by two female undercover agents who posed as patrons to gain entry. The constitutional violation, according to Judge Hyrn, occurred when five male officers decided to join the female officers inside. The men stayed for about an hour, touring all three floors of the building. More than 60 percent of the 350 women inside were topless.

"The male officers knew patrons would be in various states of undress in a highly sexualized environment," Hyrn said in his lengthy decision, "but didn't search for female officers [to do the inspection]."

Hyrn said that because the charges weren't serious and weren't urgent, the search was unreasonable. He threw out not only the evidence gathered by the male police officers, but also the evidence by the female officers. With its evidence all gone, the Crown withdrew the charges.

"We're happy we were vindicated in our behaviour and what we do - we do it well," Hornick said, surrounded by supporters on the front steps of the court house after the verdict.

Frank Addario, Hornick and Aicheson's lawyer, said he hopes such police activity never happens again.

"There has to be some examination of police use of resources to investigate an event as trivial as this one," Addario said.</font>
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:42 PM   #110
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from the star:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Toronto police violated the constitutional rights of women attending an all-female bathhouse event when it sent male officers to conduct a raid, a judge ruled yesterday.

"I find their personal rights to privacy were violated," said Mr. Justice Peter Hryn, who compared the liquor inspection that night to a strip search.

Hryn threw out all evidence — and dismissed the charges — against Jill Hornick and Rachel Aitcheson, who held the liquor licence for the lesbian event.

"The male police officers knew the patrons were in various states of undress and in a highly sexualized environment," Hryn said, noting that no attempt was made to use female officers for the liquor inspection.

Using male officers, in this case, Hryn ruled, was equivalent to using them to strip search women, which is a violation of the Toronto force's own policy. Strip searches, except in extreme circumstances, must be done by a same-sex officer.

No one at the Pussy Palace event, in downtown Toronto on Jan. 15, 2000, was physically searched but the majority of the 350 women were topless or wearing revealing clothing and some were naked.

The case for dismissal centred on whether the women at the event — billed as a way to explore sexuality in a safe, female-only environment — had a reasonable expectation of privacy from male police officers, not from the police in general, Hryn said.

He ruled they did.

The judge stated his ruling does not mean that women have a right to be policed by women only. He explained that because he ruled that this particular context was similar to a strip search, he was just re-stating generally accepted rules for strip searches.

"We're happy," said Hornick, on the front steps of the old city hall courthouse, surrounded by supporters. "Not just for ourselves, but that the women who attended were vindicated — in our behaviour, in what we do and what we do well," she said.

Before dismissing the case, Hryn outlined numerous problems with the way the raid was handled.

Two undercover female officers had already collected most of the evidence of liquor violations before the five male officers ever entered the building, he said.

He dismissed the female officers' evidence, despite it being collected before the breach of Charter rights, because it was part of the over-all investigation, he said.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that people have basic rights to privacy and protection against unreasonable searches.

Hornick and Aitcheson were charged with permitting disorderly conduct, failing to provide sufficient security, permitting liquor to be removed from the premises and serving liquor after hours.

Hryn said liquor licence violations are not as severe as criminal charges and therefore give even less reason to infringe on Charter rights.

Police spokesperson Staff Inspector Bruce Smollet said the ruling "won't affect the way we do business."

Smollet said the judge had taken a "leap" by comparing the bathhouse raid to a strip search. "There's a big difference," Smollet said.

Police, he said, must do their job and that doesn't change if women happen to be nude. He added, however, that since this raid police have held meetings on the subject and "we're certainly cognizant of the community's concerns."

"You have to hope this kind of thing won't happen again," said lawyer Frank Addario, who represented Aitcheson and Hornick, outside the courthouse.

There needs to be "an examination of the use of police resources to investigate such trivial offences," Addario said.

When Aitcheson was asked outside court what this ruling meant for lesbians across Canada, she responded enthusiastically:

"Organize a bathhouse!"</font>
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:48 PM   #111
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Wow trying to hide something I said news article as in newspaper article. The Star, Globe and Mail, or national post. What the hell is xtra magazine.
Why can't people answer a damn question, next you'll be printing articles from the sun. LOL!
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:50 PM   #112
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i just posted an article from the star, einstein.
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:54 PM   #113
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Finally you print an article from the star. Thanks but the article is talking about the ruling in which we all know. I am discussing what was going on in there and the evidence of it, not some judges ruling. The judge can rule anything he wants but that doesn't make it right. Just like that idiot judge in BC ruled that child porn is not illegal.
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:58 PM   #114
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ok dorkface, here are some old articles:

from the globe and mail in oct 2000:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Globe & Mail - October 7, 2000

Organizers to face charges in bathhouse case: police

Written by Colin Freeze, Police Reporter

After a controversial police investigation, charges are to be laid next week against two people involved in organizing a lesbian-bathhouse event held last month.

Police announced yesterday that, as expected, charges will be laid under the Liquor Licence Act, rather than the Criminal Code. That means only the two people whose names appear on the event's Special Occasion Permit can be charged. If convicted, they face fines, not jail time.

The charges include permitting disorderly conduct, failure to provide security, and serving outside licensed hours, Councillor Kyle Rae said yesterday. He repeated criticisms of what he has dubbed a "panty raid." The visit by five male police officers on Sept. 15 at 1 a.m. was a misuse of police resources, he said, listing a dozen drug corners in his downtown ward he says would have been better targets.

The night of the bathhouse event, patrons were scandalized as the plainclothes officers crashed the party at Club Toronto, took an hour to look through the Mutual Street building, and wrote down the names of several patrons.

Gays and lesbians denounced the investigation as harassment. They protested, held press conferences, quickly raised $9,000 to cover defence costs, and recalled the morality raids of the early eighties, when bathhouse patrons were charged criminally.

Lawyer Frank Addario said his clients will be formally charged next week. He plans to ask the court to stay these charges, arguing that the police investigation violated his clients' constitutional rights.

Police have maintained their visit to the event was no different than any routine inspection of a bar.

Mr. Rae said a discrepancy in the Liquor Licence Act requires people who have licences for special occasions to stop serving alcohol at 1 a.m., rather than the 2 a.m. last-call the province instituted in bars several years ago.</font>
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:58 PM   #115
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally from the Star:
Police spokesperson Staff Inspector Bruce Smollet said the ruling "won't affect the way we do business." </font>
And that's the biggest problem.

Fucking cops still don't learn their lesson even after a judge tells them that they're violating the constitutional rights of others.

Pete
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Old 02-01-2002, 02:00 PM   #116
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more from the globe in 2000:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Globe & Mail - September 25, 2000
Barging in
Written by Unknown

Whatever else informed the Toronto police force's handling of a party at a bathhouse this month, restraint and common sense were in short supply.

The all-night party was a lesbian gathering for which the organizers had received a special-occasion liquor licence. It was not the first such event. The police would have known the women would be in various states of undress -- cowboy outfits, lingerie, towels, nothing at all.

So who did the force send into the place at 1 a.m. without advance notice (none needed under the terms of the licence) to see whether the liquor laws were being obeyed and to interrogate the occupants? Five male plainclothes officers, who spent more than an hour wandering through the various rooms and taking down the names and addresses of several women.

And to what end? Hard to say. The police say there will be no criminal charges for indecent acts -- unlike several such charges laid after a similar visit to a gay male club in Toronto last year, charges later withdrawn by Ontario prosecutors. There were suggestions that people might be charged for "disorderly conduct" in an area where liquor was being served or for carrying drinks outside designated areas.

Given the history of Toronto police and gay bathhouses -- particularly a nasty 1981 raid on six bathhouses in which more than 300 men were arrested for offences involving consensual sex -- one might have expected the force to show more sensitivity. With that history, it doesn't take much to blur the line between routine liquor-permit enforcement and harassment. Failing to send women officers into a private, sexually charged party of women is more than enough.

The incident might have derailed a scheduled meeting between the police and Toronto gay associations to improve communications between them; but the meeting was held, and a liaison committee was formed. No question it's needed.</font>
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Old 02-01-2002, 02:10 PM   #117
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I thought keeping a common bawdyhouse was a crime but I guess its only for straight people. They charged cover and served alcohol, that would be the charge if sexual activity took place in a strip joints. I am sick of people in the gay community saying that it is normal to go to a bathouse or public park and have anonymous sex with many different people. I am sorry but if you break the law you should be charged black, white, gay or straight. The is the same for everyone.
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Old 02-01-2002, 02:14 PM   #118
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*yawn*

did i hear something buzzing?

*wwwwhack*

that oughtta do it.
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Old 02-01-2002, 02:24 PM   #119
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idiocy is running rampant.. i know the urge to explain things is there but dont waste your time.

"don't feed the trolls"
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Old 02-01-2002, 03:17 PM   #120
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^^^ i think Scott originally coined that term...

wickeed ruling, too bad the cops won't ever give a damn...
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Old 02-01-2002, 03:32 PM   #121
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Congrats to PP.
The question is....so now what?
Gays can have their cake and eat it too I guess.

I agree with AlexD.
It was more of a nudity issue more than anything else.
They wouldn't have been using a man vs. women arguement if it wasn't; gay or not.

Just a question for Janiecakes (don't take this the wrong way k?); are you gay? or have a lot of gay friends? Or just don't like the cops? You seem to be quite excited about this whole ordeal.
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Old 02-01-2002, 03:40 PM   #122
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fir3start3r:
don't take this the wrong way </font>
... cause you know it's an insult to us hetero sexurals.
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Old 02-01-2002, 03:46 PM   #123
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MBoy:
... cause you know it's an insult to us hetero sexurals.</font>
Tribe spelling alert!
"Heterosexual"
No....just because I'm straight doesn't mean I'm a homophobic cop.
Someone's sexual preference is none of my business.
I'm just curious why she's all over this like white on rice...
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Old 02-01-2002, 03:55 PM   #124
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pest:
I thought keeping a common bawdyhouse was a crime but I guess its only for straight people. They charged cover and served alcohol, that would be the charge if sexual activity took place in a strip joints. I am sick of people in the gay community saying that it is normal to go to a bathouse or public park and have anonymous sex with many different people. I am sorry but if you break the law you should be charged black, white, gay or straight. The is the same for everyone.</font>
Damn right! I agree totally!

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Old 02-01-2002, 04:00 PM   #125
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Wow....Pest...you've lost it
You DO know that you're commenting on your own posts right? lol
HAHAAHHAAA
Thx for the laugh...
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