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Old 01-28-2002, 12:17 PM   #1
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us combat-related casualties in afghanistan

http://www.msnbc.com/news/627086.asp

it says on the chart in the middle of this article:

45% died in a crash
46.7% died due to friendly fire
8.3% died because of enemy fire

maybe i'm missing out on something here but it seems pretty ineffective for state-of-the-art technology and training.
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:22 PM   #2
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Does it show the ratio of enemies killed vs. Americans killed? That's probably a better indication of the effectiveness of modern military hardware.
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:24 PM   #3
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by beaker:
46.7% died due to friendly fire
</font>
*YIKES*

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Old 01-28-2002, 01:33 PM   #4
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so basically 12 US soldiers died, only 1 of them by enemy fire. It isn't enough to draw any conclusions, other than Afghans being shitty at war, and accidents happening.
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:37 PM   #5
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it would be more telling to see the casualty rate among the al quaeda fighters, and then compare it to the friendly fire incidents. In once case, a troop of 15 US soldiers killed over 1,500 Afghans. That's a lot of bullets missing Americans.

Also, half the deaths are from one accident. How many sorties were flown in total, and what is the crash ratio? It's probably really low.

I'd say the stats point to the complete effectiveness of the US military
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:44 PM   #6
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that has been the case the last few times that the U.S. has been in a war. The Gulf war most of the casulties were because of work related accidents such as heavy equiptment crushing them, or truck accidents.
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:45 PM   #7
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yeah, i hate to say anything positive about the americans but it is undeniable that their troops are excellently trained and equipped. soldiers die in training crashes on a not too in frequent basis. i don't numbers on hand but i think those figures would be considered excellant for the size and scope of their military operation.

more relevant is the fact that the latest estimate puts afghani civilian casualties at more than 5000.

and wasn't there some guy called osama somthing or other? weren't the americans going to bring him to justice at all costs? does anybody else think it's strange that one day this osama guy is holed up in his moutain cave base with 2000 fighters and the next day there are 200 dead fighters, a handful of prisoners and no osama? where'd he go? where'd the other 1700 fighters go? hmmmmmmm?
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:

and wasn't there some guy called osama somthing or other? weren't the americans going to bring him to justice at all costs? does anybody else think it's strange that one day this osama guy is holed up in his moutain cave base with 2000 fighters and the next day there are 200 dead fighters, a handful of prisoners and no osama? where'd he go? where'd the other 1700 fighters go? hmmmmmmm?
</font>

They are all rotting in a cave that the U.S. bombed!
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:59 PM   #9
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by poker face:

They are all rotting in a cave that the U.S. bombed!
</font>
do you really believe that? even the americans are not making that claim. they know that their afghani 'allies' let most of the loyal taliban fighters escape.
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:03 PM   #10
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
yeah, i hate to say anything positive about the americans </font>
And that's what makes your opinions so insignificant. Aren't you the brilliant one who made that intelligent comment in the Walker thread about the poor misguided soul who stood up for his beliefs?

Stay out of politics, its obviously not your bag. If you can't contribute anything insightful, then why do you even bother? What exactly is your personal beef with the Americans anyways? I've seen many strong opinions posted around here, which is cool, but you seem to have a personal hard-on for anything anti-U.S., and I for one want to know where its coming from......did you get a bad Jack in the Box one day or did an American bird give you crabs or something?

I actually agree that the military operation had its flaws and in spite of today's advanced warfare technology many mistakes seem to have been made that probably could have been avoided with better planning. However, the Taliban has been ousted, which seems to make many Afghanis quite happy, and many of the "innocents" killed seem to have been situated near Taliban and al-Quaeda targets, and had plenty of time to clear out before the bombs came. Also, aid is pouring in, including a long-term plan of something like 40 billion dollars from those American "tyrants"........

d
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:05 PM   #11
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uh-oh, here comes the kumatei
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:16 PM   #12
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mr tall:
uh-oh, here comes the kumatei</font>
Isn't Kumatei the name of the tournament in "Bloodsport"?

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Old 01-28-2002, 02:24 PM   #13
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yeah, these types of threads usually result in arguments, usually as epic and of the same quality as a van damme flick
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:

more relevant is the fact that the latest estimate puts afghani civilian casualties at more than 5000.
</font>
kind of a sad fact, that the death toll of afghani civilians is higher than the death toll of american civilians from the original sept 11 attacks
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mr tall:

yeah, these types of threads usually result in arguments, usually as epic and of the same quality as a van damme flick
</font>
True, they do sometimes degenerate into left vs right battles; however if one agrees with everything others say without expressing their own opinions (like many on here) then the world would be a pretty boring place, wouldn't it?

d
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by poker face:

They are all rotting in a cave that the U.S. bombed!
</font>
You don't really belive that do you?

I think he's been rotting for a long time before there was any bombing.

He was killed by the CIA after he helped defeat the russians and stopped being usefull, but they preserved his corpse, and occasionally hook it up to some strings, like i giant puppet (the same method they use on the pope) and do some propaganda video or another for the american public...

And then, they put the corpse back in storage... untill... eventually,10 years later during a lull of american fanaticism and morale, they'll bring that sucker out and say "hey, we found it in a cave... It was super hidden... but... American enemies never escape!"
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:59 PM   #17
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^^^^ lol, like in weekend at bernies?
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Old 01-28-2002, 03:04 PM   #18
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by feisty boy:
kind of a sad fact, that the death toll of afghani civilians is higher than the death toll of american civilians from the original sept 11 attacks</font>

Before the war started the Red Cross was estimating that hundreds of thousands of people would starve to death and not survive the winter because the taliban would not let them get supplies into the country. Now that they are gone the borders to Uzbekistan and other countries have been reopened they got supplies in, and many of those people have survived that would not have before. Where does saving lives fit in on your comparision? Oh yeah......nowhere, becuase it is the U.S. that did it.


dan.


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Old 01-28-2002, 03:04 PM   #19
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LoopeD:
And that's what makes your opinions so insignificant. </font>
because i frankly and openly admit that i am biased? as opposed to claiming to be objective when i clearly am not?

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Aren't you the brilliant one who made that intelligent comment in the Walker thread about the poor misguided soul who stood up for his beliefs?
</font>
no, i said he was a misguided soul who was searching for identity. even if i did say he stood up for his beliefs, what can your problem with that possibly be, he did, as screwed up as his beliefs were/are, he did stand up and fight for them.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Stay out of politics, its obviously not your bag. If you can't contribute anything insightful, then why do you even bother?
</font>


this from you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHhah HAHAHsahahahHAHHAhHAHAH *OMG* *must remember to breathe*

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
What exactly is your personal beef with the Americans anyways?
</font>


i have no particular problems with americans. i have strong problems with the american government's foreign policies and strong hand, america first tactics, which totally disregard the lives of non-americans and the environment.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I actually agree that the military operation had its flaws and in spite of today's advanced warfare technology many mistakes seem to have been made that probably could have been avoided with better planning.
</font>


you're being harder on them then i was. i said that their casualtites were in line with what would be expected on an operation of that size. there is no denying that the american soldiers have had enormous success against the militants.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
many of the "innocents" killed seem to have been situated near Taliban and al-Quaeda targets, and had plenty of time to clear out before the bombs came. Also, aid is pouring in, including a long-term plan of something like 40 billion dollars from those American "tyrants"........
</font>
by the same arguement you could say that everybody in the WTC was near an american target and had been given plenty of warning to clear out. of course saying that would be absolutly retarded, no rational person would make that claim (i'm not making that claim). but it makes as little sense as you saying, 'well they were warned, it's there own fault' for living near a taliban safe house? for living on a farm where US intelligence thought that there might be taliban fighters? typical american attitude.

40 billion dollars isn't going to bring back any of the people in residential neighborhoods of kandahar that were strafed by US gunships because there was a taliban safe house in the area. but it probably will make a nice stable government so that bush's oil buddies can start building the pipeline from tzakjestan (sp?) that they want.

you know what your problem is looped? you're to stupid to realize when i'm agreeing with you. this is not the first thread when i've said nothing bad about you or your politics and you have attacked me. get lost.
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Old 01-28-2002, 03:49 PM   #20
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actually, the more i think about it, the best way to articulate what i dislike about america, it is not what they do either externally or internally so much that pisses me off, it is the fact that dissenting opinions are instantly branded as 'unamerican' in a nation where freedom is supposed to be of prime importance.

don't get me wrong. i love the ideals of america. if i was an american i would consider myself a patriot, but that would mean that i would be against the current government of the united states.
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Old 01-29-2002, 01:56 AM   #21
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Was the american that got killed, the one who was clearing land mines? cuz I remember one guy was "killed" unofficially like that... or something...

and as a seperate note... what I hate about America, isn't that they do bad shit all the time, but that they do alot of bad shit, and then claim to stick to these glorious ideals, when really, the only time they actually stick to their ideals is when it serves them.. like defending an ally, defending their oil... or bombing brown people.. cuz lets face it.. history speaks for itself, Americans love to kill brown people... war on poverty, war on drugs, war on brown people...
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Old 01-29-2002, 11:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Magnolia Fan:

and as a seperate note... what I hate about America, isn't that they do bad shit all the time, but that they do alot of bad shit, and then claim to stick to these glorious ideals, when really, the only time they actually stick to their ideals is when it serves them.. like defending an ally, defending their oil... or bombing brown people.. cuz lets face it.. history speaks for itself, Americans love to kill brown people... war on poverty, war on drugs, war on brown people...
</font>
Weren't too many brown people in Germany.

Weren't too many brown people in Bosnia.

Weren't too many brown people in Russia.

Weren't to many brown people in Isreal when they withheld aid in 72. "Let them get bloodied a little" I believe is the quote.

What you said is totally and completely inaccurate! The simple truth however is that since WWII the vast majority of wars have invovled brown people on both sides.

I think you hate americans because your told to.
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Old 01-29-2002, 11:34 AM   #23
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ditto Much:
Weren't to many brown people in Isreal when they withheld aid in 72. "Let them get bloodied a little" I believe is the quote.
</font>
you saw that documentary last night too, huh?
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Old 01-29-2002, 11:48 AM   #24
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
you saw that documentary last night too, huh?</font>

No I didn't which one was it (Turning Points has a really good one) I've just always been a fan of Anwar Sadat. I'm still amazed to this day that they didn't just let the entire 3rd Army die of dehydration. I'd argue this was Isreal's defining moment as a military power. Syria could have taken it all they just didn't realize it at the time.

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