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Racism in Canda Towards Native Canadians

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Old 01-24-2002, 06:22 PM   #151
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hey I just got here, what did I miss?
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:25 PM   #152
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HOLY CRAP! Racism!
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:32 PM   #153
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fleaflo:
Then what would you call it then.

I did'nt say you were racist...insensitive and ignorant absolutely.
</font>
No you said I was the perfect example of what this thread was about and being that the thread is "Racism in Canada Towards Native Canadians" that means you called me a racist.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
ha! ha! Apology! good one Poindexter. Sorry your 'sense of humor' doesn't include ignorance towards yourself. Maybe the next time you want to espouse a funny like that, you'll think about who it might offend.
</font>

If I caused you any personal offence, than I do with all sencerity appologies to you. I still do not see my comment as being smug or anything in anyway similiar nor was it intended to be.

So with all your infinite experience of native cultures, Which reserve in Canada have you visited?
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:32 PM   #154
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
going waaaaaaaaaay back to the original topic. one of my poker buddies is 1/4 ojibway. one night when he was winning my best friend started making 'native and gmabling' jokes. i found that they made me uncomfortable and spoke up against my best friend. both of them shot me down, one saying it was jsut trash talk and the other saying it didn't bother him.....i dunno. a basketball game is certianly not free of 'white men can't jump' references. does a little trash talk across the poker table constitute a racist act?</font>
Racism can be such a hard thing to define sometimes. Where do you draw the line. Obviously, it isn't acceptable to hurt someone, voluntarily even less. I don't personally make racial jokes very often, but I know lots of people who do, as you probably do. And I'm guilty myself once in awhile.

I think the level of comfort and intimacy you have with someone and important here. It's nice to say, people should never make racist jokes. But realistically, that's so far off. It even happens on TRIBE (brown guy, etc.).

I think it it makes you uncomfortable, don't be afraid to say so. And those who are making the comments should respect that. Like with many behaviours that are "socially mischevious". If they make someone uncomfortable, they should be stopped. There shoudl be some consensus within a group that defines boundaries.

In a perfect world....

Ming.
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:34 PM   #155
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mr tall:

HOLY CRAP! Racism!
</font>
it only took you 3 minutes to read this all or did you just look at the posters names? ;p
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:39 PM   #156
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by janiecakes:
are you saying that native canadians haven't earned anyone's respect?</font>
No. Just stating a fact Poothrower...(I'm joking by calling you that k?)
There are a few native Canadian people that I'd love to meet; the ones that have risen above the bigotry that is.
One's past cannot be erased. It's forever etched in stone.
But do you choose to live the past or move on? What does one gain by pointing at things that already happened?? Unless you've learned from those experiences (good or bad) you haven't learned anything.
I don't dispute the fact that there is a deep gap between "us" and "them"; something that's not going to be cured with quick government fixes.
I found this excellant online article from the Globe and Mail that was released just in mid-Dec regarding everything we're all talking about.
I highly recommend that everyone involved here READ IT.
http://www.globeandmail.com/series/a...5-1.html#part1
He is tackling everything we've brought up in this thread and hopefully will put us ALL on the same wavelength...
Once we've read it, then we can all have an intelligent conversation about what to do about it.

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Old 01-24-2002, 06:42 PM   #157
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
i think the point is, that any native could, theoretically, leave the reserve, move to toronto and start at the bottom like anybody else can.

i think, ultimately, that the reserves are a trap and a dead end, for the very reasons that swilly mentioned.
</font>
You hit the nail directly on the head Rosey
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:48 PM   #158
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fir3start3r:
You hit the nail directly on the head Rosey </font>
i think you couldn't find your own head in the dark, duhhhhhhhhh

lets rephrase this scenario for you:

#1 - leave reservation and assimilate, losing your culture, perpetuating colonialism
#2 - stay on reservation and stagnate, losing your oppurtunity, perpetuating poverty

something like that?
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:51 PM   #159
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kodos:
#1 - leave reservation and assimilate, losing your culture, perpetuating colonialism.</font>
This doesn't have to happen on such a dramatic scale. I think it probably happens naturally to those who live in the city, but that's a survival thing. And that essentially what we're talking about here, I think.

People don't have to lose their culture, and traditions, just cuase they don't live in the homeland (reserve) anymore. That's a personal thing. And nobody can take that from you. Not in these times.

Ming.
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Old 01-24-2002, 06:56 PM   #160
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kodos:
i think you couldn't find your own head in the dark, duhhhhhhhhh

lets rephrase this scenario for you:

#1 - leave reservation and assimilate, losing your culture, perpetuating colonialism
#2 - stay on reservation and stagnate, losing your oppurtunity, perpetuating poverty

something like that?
</font>
I think we're forgetting #3...

#3 - Leave the reservation, keep your culture and make your mark in this world.

Why is that so hard for people to realize?

I don't know about anybody else here, but my native roots are not my anchors, why should they be to anyone else?
I'm very proud of my Canadian native heritage and there's nothing in the world that is going to take that away from me.
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Old 01-24-2002, 07:01 PM   #161
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give me a fuckin break dude, i'm not surprised that your 1/16 'native canadian roots' aren't your anchor.

i love how everyone is suddenly an indian when these conversations come up.

'look at me! my grand-daddy's fifth cousin's cousin's wife's mammy was 1/4 ojibway! so if i can survive in the big bad city while staying proud of my native roots, why can't those other whiney indians just get over it?'
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Old 01-24-2002, 07:02 PM   #162
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SUNKIST:
i havent read this thread..so maybe this has already been mentioned..but here goes anyways..keeping with the theme of this thread..i remember learning this in anthropology, the big controversy between Hydro Quebec and The Cree (Great Whale group) in quebec.
basically what happened was that H.Q. proposed to build two turbines to flood the resevoirs, but this would all take place in the Great Whales' land. H.Q. stood to make billions of dollars, which they felt was justification for taking over the land. however they completely ignored the fact that they would be flooding over ancient graves, and farm land. H.Q. waved some money in front of the Great Whales, basically putting a price on their freedom. i really liked this one quote that the head of the Great Whales' protest group said towards Robert Bouressa (the head of H.Q) "the problem with your society is you think you can ask 'how much?' and you problems will be solved."
i dont think a more accurate thing could be said.
</font>
The sad thing is they accepted the fee. But that hardly reached the reservations, rather being split amongst the negotiators and their cronies. When your leadership lets you down and is inherently corrupt, people know they can take advantage of you and trample all over you.

That case reminds me of the Bhopal gas disaster in India. A Union Carbide plant (not maintained at all) suffered an explosion, releasing a poisonous gas cloud ove the city. 8,000 people dead. 20,000 people permanently injured and unable to work. 300,000 injured.

Union Carbide ran for years. Bribing various officials in India and the US to hold the case up. In 1987, they finally accepted responsibility and went to court. A few well placed bribes later and a settlment was reached for $470million. A friggin insult to the people who suffered and continued to suffer. I remember it worked out to 10,000 rupees per person, ($476 Cdn)

In the same year, an article in the Times of India stated that approximately US $ 40,000 was spent on the rehabilitation of every sea otter affected by the Alaska oil spill.
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Old 01-24-2002, 07:10 PM   #163
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shrug!
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Old 01-24-2002, 07:10 PM   #164
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fir3start3r:

I recommend that everyone involved here
http://www.globeandmail.com/series/a...5-1.html#part1

</font>
I have to also ask that people read this, its very well put togther and it expresses many of the issues with both perspectives.

With regards to James Bay...

3.5 billion over 50 years was thefianl price. (or about 250,000 per person based on the current population of 15,000).

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Old 01-24-2002, 07:16 PM   #165
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"Deeds are not accomplished in a few days, or in a few hours. A century is only a spoke in the wheel of everlasting time." -- Louis Riel, 1885

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Old 01-24-2002, 07:21 PM   #166
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Wow...this article is great...here's some support for my arguement...

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Saskatchewan actor and stage director Floyd Favel Starr discovered this while studying theatre in Denmark. Having grown up on the Poundmaker reserve northwest of Saskatoon, he often worried about assimilation. But then he met a Buddhist monk who spoke his own language, had his own cultural identity and yet was a man of the world. Starr realized how cloistered Canadian natives could be.

"There's no fear of assimilation if you practise your own culture and language," he argues. "Assimilation is not something to fear. Assimilation is up to the individual. In a way, assimilation is self-created."
</font>
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Old 01-24-2002, 07:29 PM   #167
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by janiecakes:
give me a fuckin break dude, i'm not surprised that your 1/16 'native canadian roots' aren't your anchor.

i love how everyone is suddenly an indian when these conversations come up.

'look at me! my grand-daddy's fifth cousin's cousin's wife's mammy was 1/4 ojibway! so if i can survive in the big bad city while staying proud of my native roots, why can't those other whiney indians just get over it?'
</font>
Then I guess you've never been called one huh? (you did see my picture right?)
What? I have to be 100% pure to have native Canadian roots? I did say, "ROOTS" not "INDIAN".
Irregardless if I was 100% or not, that's not the point of any the arguements I was making while contributing to the thread.
(Notice the word 'contribute')
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Old 01-24-2002, 07:40 PM   #168
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following on from the deeply disturbing responses about 'opportunities', 'handouts', and assimilation/multiculturalism...

"Twenty years ago, in attending the Montreal Expo, I dropped in to the Canadian Indian exhibit, where the walls were covered with printed statements expressing the exhibitors' opinion of their white visitors. I remember nothing of the actual wording, but what was said in effect was: You conquered us, not fairly in battle but by infecting us with your foul diseases; you stole our land and shut us up into open-air cages; you trapped the animals and burnt the forests we depended on for food and shelter; worst of all, you robbed us of our Great Spirit and put your own horrible scarecrow in its place." - Northrop Frye

p.s. John Stackhouse has written some pretty shit articles in the past. i wouldn't take that story as gospel. that bit on assimilation is particularly hurl-worthy.
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Old 01-24-2002, 07:55 PM   #169
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following on from the deeply disturbing responses about 'opportunities', 'handouts', and assimilation/multiculturalism...

"Twenty years ago, in attending the Montreal Expo, I dropped in to the Canadian Indian exhibit, where the walls were covered with printed statements expressing the exhibitors' opinion of their white visitors. I remember nothing of the actual wording, but what was said in effect was: You conquered us, not fairly in battle but by infecting us with your foul diseases; you stole our land and shut us up into open-air cages; you trapped the animals and burnt the forests we depended on for food and shelter; worst of all, you robbed us of our Great Spirit and put your own horrible scarecrow in its place." - Northrop Frye

p.s. John Stackhouse has written some pretty shit articles in the past. i wouldn't take that story as gospel. that bit on assimilation is particularly hurl-worthy.
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Old 01-24-2002, 08:23 PM   #170
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I really think the insults have to stop. Just because you don't agree with someones opinion there is no need to insult them. If you disagree with them make your points as to why you think they are wrong but saying the person is stupid or an idiot is just wrong!
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Old 01-24-2002, 08:43 PM   #171
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I think Natives have been given a lot of opportunities by the federal and provincial governments in the last 30 years that other people haven't. Immigrants coming here had to leave there country, not knowing the language worked hard and could make it. Have you ever seen an oriental or east indian person begging downtown no why. They worked really hard came here with nothing but the clothes on there back, with people pushing them down at every turn. Why don't you ask an oriental or east indian person what it was like here in the late sixties and early seventies. There wasn't the social programs there are now if you didn't work you starved. There shops in China town and gerard st used to get burned down people would right on there store window go back where you came. So don't tell me that other people didn't have to deal with racism you can either use it as an exuse or you can do something about it. Natives are not forced to stay on the reserve they can go to the city for employment and education and if they really wanted to return to the reserve to improve it. Just like many immigrants do right now, they make money here learn then go back home and improve the country from which they came. Don't give me the crap about losing there heritage has a person of hindu faith lost his culture and he isn't even in his own country. The best thing you can do for Natives is to not give them an excuse for not succeeding.
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Old 01-24-2002, 08:54 PM   #172
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pest:
Natives are not forced to stay on the reserve they can go to the city for employment and education and if they really wanted to return to the reserve to improve it. Just like many immigrants do right now, they make money here learn then go back home and improve the country from which they came. Don't give me the crap about losing there heritage has a person of hindu faith lost his culture and he isn't even in his own country. The best thing you can do for Natives is to not give them an excuse for not succeeding.</font>
See, this is a very ethnocentric way of looking at the situation. Sure, they *could* leave their reserve, but for a culture so close to their land, leaving it behind to join the world of their percieved oppressors is probably easier said than done.

I understand your family left their home countries and came here, but you do have to cede that there are many differences between your parent's background culture and that of the native peoples here.

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Old 01-24-2002, 09:02 PM   #173
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gizmo:
The sad thing is they accepted the fee. But that hardly reached the reservations, rather being split amongst the negotiators and their cronies. When your leadership lets you down and is inherently corrupt, people know they can take advantage of you and trample all over you.

</font>
i beleive they argreed to accept it under new leadership didnt they? somethingl ike 50 million? i admired how they went to NY with it, and had this big campaign..it was pretty insipiring to watch.

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Old 01-24-2002, 09:03 PM   #174
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pest:
saying the person is stupid or an idiot is just wrong!</font>
Not in your case.

You have proven, once again, that you are an idiot and you are stupid.

Here, let's prove it: Pest, who is Louis Riel?

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Old 01-24-2002, 09:13 PM   #175
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That happened a over a hundred years ago when are people going to live in the present rather then point out things that happened over a hundred years ago when things were different. Give me a break. I guess every black person that commits a crime in the states should blame it on slavery right even the ones who know nothing about what it felt like to be a slave. The year is 2002!
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