Burn on him: Burning man at Burning Man

[MoFo]

Did the Survivor guy who fell face first into a fire pit sue? Not sure.

[that 420 guy]

its refreshing to see that none of your opinions of burning man have been tainted by actually attending the festival. can't take the heat? think other people should be responsible for your own stupid actions? don't go to burning man. its just an overblown, overhyped keg party in the middle of the desert. its not really that fun anyways...and there are gheys everywhere there too *ew*

[MoFo]

So you think that if you attend a festival and the stage collapses, it's your own fault for putting yourself at risk?

Just clarifying here.

[acheron]

Originally Posted by MoFo

Did the Survivor guy who fell face first into a fire pit sue? Not sure.

that was Mike Skupin... no, he didn't sue - he turned the sitch into a life-changing event or something... he was a bit of a wackjob, though, apparently.

[MoFo]

Also by your logic, I have to attend the Teabagger tour to get the real story on those anti-Obama protesters.

Or go to The Gathering to get the real Juggalo fest.

Who's judging the Burning Man festival? This discussion is more about liability and event logistics.

[MoFo]

Originally Posted by acheron

that was Mike Skupin... no, he didn't sue - he turned the sitch into a life-changing event or something... he was a bit of a wackjob, though, apparently.

I heard him on Howard and it was a great interview. He talked about how they have medical staff always around the filming areas and that Jeff Probst usually stays in a luxury boat that's off shore.

They're also told what to say during those interviews and a lot of it is scripted as there are directors and producers running around the site, planning out results and stuff. He sounded pretty cool actually because after he got burned, he still wanted to show up for work.

[Wiseman]

The stage-collapsing argument doesn't really work. The stage is meant to stay intact and not collapse so if it does, the designers/builders made a mistake and someone should be liable.

The man is supposed to be burning. It is supposed to collapse. That was what it was built for and ist is not a surprise. Walking 7-10 feet into the burning embers you accept a certain amount of risk because of the apparent danger of such an action.

You do not accept that risk standing on/next to a stage that should be built to stay intact.

[AshG]

Originally Posted by MoFo

So you think that if you attend a festival and the stage collapses, it's your own fault for putting yourself at risk?

Just clarifying here.

if you willingly walk into a collapsing structure that is literally on fire, yeah i'd say you're putting yourself at risk.

[kaniz]

Originally Posted by MoFo

So you think that if you attend a festival and the stage collapses, it's your own fault for putting yourself at risk?

Just clarifying here.

If the stage collapses then you run into the wreckage and step on a nail - then yes, it's your fault.

if the stage collapses and you get hurt from a piece of stage smacking you in the face - then I'd say its the organizers fault.

[MoFo]

Originally Posted by kaniz

If the stage collapses then you run into the wreckage and step on a nail - then yes, it's your fault.

if the stage collapses and you get hurt from a piece of stage smacking you in the face - then I'd say its the organizers fault.

I concur.

[AshG]

the other thing is... in these situations there's sometimes a percentage of at-fault liability assessed in these suits.
something like a 60/40 or something.

[guysmiley]

To be fair, I think a lot of otherwise intelligent people do something without considering the full risk that, in retrospect, obviously exists. This is usually more prevalent when a bunch of people are already doing it. A good analogous situation might be someone suing a park because they were hurt when jumping off a cliff into a lake- especially one that’s famous for this activity.

I don’t think this was necessarily a frivolous lawsuit, but do agree with the outcome that the man is not entitled to compensation.

[MoFo]

Also, how did he even get into the flames? I thought burning stuff had to be on a burn platform and not on the actual ground? So is this thing still accessible from the ground? I just assumed it was high up.

[MoFo]

I just stumbled upon this: http://www.coolingman.org/

Fun.

[supakeli]

I can't resist putting in my 2 cents.
Yes, perhaps burning man should be a little more diligent in ensuring the safety of it's participants
BUT
morons like this should be responsible for their own actions. The entitlement certain people feel in regards to compensation for idiocy really pisses me off. Where does it end? You can't idiot proof life. If you're going to be reckless and stupid, take your lumps. It's nobody's fault but your own.The fact that stupidity can be used to receive large cash settlements is insane to me.

[solacevip]

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the Fiery Furnace

[acheron]

Jomo at Tenagra

[saskboy]

It's fuckers like this that make it so hard for anybody to do anything spontaneous or original.

Insurance has now become a form of taxation. Risk management has become it's own form of government.

It's the reason that they had to put up all those cages(fences) at Caribana. Some guy jumped the fence last year at Caribana and lost his leg as it got crushed by a truck. His dad sued the city and said it was their fault for not making the fences high enough.

[krosum]

[AlyG]

Originally Posted by derek

the playa collapsed,

[Klubmasta Will]

from someone who has been to 6 burning man festivals, i can say with some authority that there are ample safety measures in place during the burn. well before the man burns, there are barrier markers placed in a circle a safe distance from and around the man. hundreds of festival volunteers, as well as law enforcement officers and fire-fighters, are in attendance, and all help ensure that members of the public stay a safe distance away.

once the man actually tumbles to the ground in a massive pile of burning embers, many people "rush the fire" to dance close to it. this is clearly something that people do at their own risk, just like they do at the hundreds of other bonfires that occur at the festival each year.

the liability test that would apply here - as in most tort cases - is based on the fictitious "reasonable person".

so, to respond to those of you asking what would happen if a burning man stage collapsed killing people, or should the organizers be responsible if one of their employees drove around recklessly and killed someone, the answer to that is simple: in those situations, the organizer should be liable because a reasonable person attending the festival would have reasonably expected to be safe from occurrences like that.

in this particular case, i believe that a person choosing to rush into a raging bonfire should be deemed to assume the risk of doing so. that is what a reasonable person would think, and that is likely the reasoning the judge used when he dismissed the case.

regarding the disclaimer that appears on the ticket, while such provisions will certainly not protect an organizer from liability if its employees are negligent, it will absolutely help to shift the onus by making it clear that the activities in question are inherently dangerous and that therefore the customer assumes the risks involved in participating.

consider the disclaimer language that appears at ski hills. that language will not protect the ski resort if one of its employees does something negligent that results in a skiier's accident, but it WILL protect the resort if a skiier goes down a hill out of control and collides into a tree.

[MoFo]

Lawyers FTW.

[Jeffsus]

Originally Posted by MoFo

He fell.
And we all sit around giant bonfires when we camp and go to the cottage. Yes, it's fire but I'm sure he didn't think he was going to trip and fall into it.

My take on it was:

60 feet of burning wooden planks eventually collapse
Creates a massive pile of strewn burning rubble
Dude walks into burning rubble, 7 to 10 feet in
Dude presumably can't see very well as it's night and burning rubble makes it hard to see around your feet
Eventually dude trips on something, burns hands/face/body/dignity in process

So yeah it was an accident he fell, but he still walked 7-10 feet into a burning pile of rubble.

-jM
A&D